RE: [SI-LIST] : HSPICE W-element and skin effect

From: Sunil Kumar ([email protected])
Date: Mon Sep 11 2000 - 11:36:42 PDT

Well..HSPICE takes into account dielectric losses also. The loss tangent
for the material (in my case FR-4) has to be specified for this purpose.

Sunil

On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Ron Miller wrote:

> Scin effect is not enough.
>
> Above 1 Ghz, Dielectric losses dominate.
>
> For a Data rate of 1.25 GBS, 625 Mhz, 3rd harmonic and 5th harmonic must be considered.
>
> So, you are talking components that cannot be simulated without a frequency domain
> simulator that takes into account dielectric losses.
>
> Ron Miller
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott McMorrow
> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 4:25 AM
> > To: Sunil Kumar
> > Cc: SI List (E-mail)
> > Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : HSPICE W-element and skin effect
> >
> > Sunil,
> >
> > I believe that the RISETIME option is no longer necessary in 2000.2.
> > Skin effect calculations are based upon the frequency content of
> > the waveform being propogated.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > scott
> >
> > Sunil Kumar wrote:
> >
> > > Hello everybody.
> > >
> > > I am simulating a gigabit (1.25Gbps) link in HSPICE 2000.2 by modeling a
> > > transmission line with W-element. I am using 18mil coupled
> > > (differential) microstrip. According to the manual, the skin effect is
> > > calculated by using RISETIME option. I have used different
> > > values for RISETIME e.g. 50ps, 100ps, 600ps, but I am not seeing any
> > > difference in the eye diagram. Can anybody explain this? Where am I making
> > > a mistake? How exactly does HSPICE calculate the skin effect for
> > > W-element?
> > >
> > > In case of U-element, skin resistance is calculated for
> > > f=1/(15*risetime), and this value is added to the dc resistance to get the
> > > effective resistance. The resulting equivalent resistance depends on one
> > > frequency; it does not depend on various frequency components in the
> > > edge. I beleive this not is not an accurate model for simulating lossy
> > > lines. In the W-element it is not mentioned how it calculates skin effect
> > > resistance. Any comments?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any help.
> > >
> > > Sunil Kumar Ph: 91-80-2204616
> > > Research Engineer Fax: 91-80-2263256
> > > ATM Group Email: [email protected]
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> > --
> > Scott McMorrow
> > Principal Engineer
> > SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering
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> >
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