Re: [SI-LIST] : HSPICE W-element and skin effect

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From: Scott McMorrow (scott@vasthorizons.com)
Date: Tue Sep 12 2000 - 09:32:45 PDT


Ron,

the w-element also takes into account frequency dependent
dielectric loss as well as skin effects.

scott

--
Scott McMorrow
Principal Engineer
SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering
18735 SW Boones Ferry Road
Tualatin, OR  97062-3090
(503) 885-1231
http://www.siqual.com

Ron Miller wrote:

> Scin effect is not enough. > > Above 1 Ghz, Dielectric losses dominate. > > For a Data rate of 1.25 GBS, 625 Mhz, 3rd harmonic and 5th harmonic must be considered. > > So, you are talking components that cannot be simulated without a frequency domain > simulator that takes into account dielectric losses. > > Ron Miller > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Scott McMorrow > > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 4:25 AM > > To: Sunil Kumar > > Cc: SI List (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : HSPICE W-element and skin effect > > > > Sunil, > > > > I believe that the RISETIME option is no longer necessary in 2000.2. > > Skin effect calculations are based upon the frequency content of > > the waveform being propogated. > > > > regards, > > > > scott > > > > Sunil Kumar wrote: > > > > > Hello everybody. > > > > > > I am simulating a gigabit (1.25Gbps) link in HSPICE 2000.2 by modeling a > > > transmission line with W-element. I am using 18mil coupled > > > (differential) microstrip. According to the manual, the skin effect is > > > calculated by using RISETIME option. I have used different > > > values for RISETIME e.g. 50ps, 100ps, 600ps, but I am not seeing any > > > difference in the eye diagram. Can anybody explain this? Where am I making > > > a mistake? How exactly does HSPICE calculate the skin effect for > > > W-element? > > > > > > In case of U-element, skin resistance is calculated for > > > f=1/(15*risetime), and this value is added to the dc resistance to get the > > > effective resistance. The resulting equivalent resistance depends on one > > > frequency; it does not depend on various frequency components in the > > > edge. I beleive this not is not an accurate model for simulating lossy > > > lines. In the W-element it is not mentioned how it calculates skin effect > > > resistance. Any comments? > > > > > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > > > > > Sunil Kumar Ph: 91-80-2204616 > > > Research Engineer Fax: 91-80-2263256 > > > ATM Group Email: sunilb@cdotb.ernet.in > > > Switching BII > > > C-DOT > > > Sneha Complex > > > 71/1 Millers Road > > > Bangalore-560052 > > > Karnataka > > > INDIA > > > > > > **** To unsubscribe from si-list or si-list-digest: send e-mail to > > > majordomo@silab.eng.sun.com. In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE > > > si-list or UNSUBSCRIBE si-list-digest, for more help, put HELP. > > > si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > **** > > > > -- > > Scott McMorrow > > Principal Engineer > > SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering > > 18735 SW Boones Ferry Road > > Tualatin, OR 97062-3090 > > (503) 885-1231 > > http://www.siqual.com > > > > > > > > **** To unsubscribe from si-list or si-list-digest: send e-mail to > > majordomo@silab.eng.sun.com. In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE > > si-list or UNSUBSCRIBE si-list-digest, for more help, put HELP. > > si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > **** > > > > **** To unsubscribe from si-list or si-list-digest: send e-mail to > majordomo@silab.eng.sun.com. In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE > si-list or UNSUBSCRIBE si-list-digest, for more help, put HELP. > si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > ****

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