RE: [SI-LIST] : receiver jitter

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From: Chris Cheng (hycheng@3pardata.com)
Date: Wed Jan 19 2000 - 13:28:53 PST


i think dc's comment on a previous message is a good start,

frm dc's comment
1) There is no way to model the return path effects. IBIS lacks both the
   means for describing the supply connections of drivers and the effect
   on driver performance of nonideal supplies.
2) Receiver modeling is very crude, and inadequate for SS applications.

but that's just the symptom of the problem. the real issue is ibis is
not a circuit description language and is not flexible enough to handle
the cutting edge design at any given time and the gap is widening. over
time, the above issues may be solved (i have personally work with cad
vendors to solve these problems) but the solution is approaching a
circuit description language which makes it a spice like solution.
i hate to degenerate this to a beta vs vhs agrument.
i have already worked on new designs that have new problems that even
1)& 2) is not enough. and when those design becomes main stream, u
will see another flood gate of messages (probably from me) critizing
how inadequate ibis is. keep in mind i can only critize issues that
are public knowledge. the constant tail chasing aspect of ibis is the
one that trouble me most.
i still think turning ibis into a subset of spice will be the best
compromise. afterall, not every is designing state of the art. but
those who are needs the best they can get.
chris

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
[mailto:owner-si-list@silab.eng.sun.com]On Behalf Of Chan, Michael
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 11:25 AM
To: 'si-list@silab.eng.sun.com'
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] : receiver jitter

Chris:
      I am very interested to know why "IBIS MODEL" is not good enough
for highspeed design. Can you elaborate on that? Thanks.

Regards,
Michael Chan

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris cheng [mailto:hycheng@3pardata.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 12:12 PM
To: si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] : receiver jitter

i have to say for the last time i am not against ibis. it's a perfect
tool
for designing mickey mouse buses like pci or jtags etc. its just not
good
enough for highspeed design.

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