Re: [SI-LIST] : Inner vs. Outer Layer Routing

About this list Date view Thread view Subject view Author view

From: Ron Miller (rmiller@Brocade.COM)
Date: Fri Dec 17 1999 - 15:47:31 PST


Chris Padilla wrote:

> More specifically, this is in regards to EMI and the use of
> hi-speed differential signaling.
>
> By hi-speed, I would say sub-nanosecond rise/fall times.
>
> In terms of the likelihood to radiate (or be susceptable to),
> it seems logical to me that microstrips would tend to radiate
> more than (balanced) striplines. Looking at this single-ended,
> it would seem true.

Chris, if you are comparing differential microstrips vs differential
striplines it should be obvious to you that stripline, being surrounded
by grounds would radiate less.

If you are comparing single ended stripline with microstrip differential
you need to specify the coupling factor. That is for tightly coupled
microstrip with the impedance determined by the spacing of the traces there
could be little common mode ratiation, while loosly coupled microstrip
far apart would have rather high radiation..

> Ron Miller
>
> So the next question would be how does a differentially routed
> signal help the cause to "justify" (to me) routing hi-speed
> signals on outer layers rather than inner layers.
>
> (Lets try and put off the SI implications of my thoughts here. I
> know that signals travel faster on outer layers. I also know that
> there is greater dispersion of the signal when placed on outer
> layers. Lengths of traces are also important here, terminations,
> vias, layer jumping, decoupling, etc., etc.) [Hmmm, now that I
> write all those down, they may well be important!]
>
> This leads me to ask exactly how much of a signal traveling down
> this transmission line is differential-mode and how much is
> common-mode? We know that radiation is often of the common-mode
> variety.
>
> Putting some numbers to this, let's assume 5-mil traces (w),
> 10-mil separation (s), and 4-mil dielectric height(s) (h). Is
> trace height (t) an important factor here?
>
> //////////////////////////////////////// Ground for stripline case
> 5 10 5
> ____ ____
> |____|<---s---->|____| t
> h h
> //////////////////////////////////////// Ground plane (infinite)
>
> I have plans to run some very basic cases using Ansoft's HFSS--mostly
> because that is what I am familiar with AND have access to. I am
> posting this on the SI-LIST to gather any insightful thoughts on this
> whole idea.
>
> I have a feeling the overall answer to my question is: It depends!
> It depends on components near the traces, vias, layer jumps, length
> of the lines, environment these traces will be placed in (outside, in
> a chassis, on a PC, etc.)
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Chris Padilla C i s c o S y s t e m s
> EMC Engineer __________________________
> 170 West Tasman Drive | |
> San Jose, CA 95134 | |
> Email: cpad@cisco.com | | | |
> Work: 408.525.4989 | !|! !|! |
> Pager: 408.870.5410 | .!|||!. .!|||!. |
> Fax: 408.525.9150 |.:!!!!!!!!!:..:!!!!!!!!!:.|
>
> "I think the best evidence that intelligent life exists
> elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried
> to contact us...." Calvin of Calvin & Hobbes

--
Ronald B. Miller  _\\|//_  Signal Integrity Engineer
(408)487-8017    (' 0-0 ') fax(408)487-8017
     ==========0000-(_)0000===========
Brocade Communications Systems, 1901 Guadalupe Parkway, San Jose, CA  95131
rmiller@brocade.com,  rbmiller@sjm.infi.net

**** To unsubscribe from si-list: send e-mail to majordomo@silab.eng.sun.com. In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE si-list, for more help, put HELP. si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu/si-list ****


About this list Date view Thread view Subject view Author view

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Feb 29 2000 - 11:39:09 PST