++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:24:11 +0100 From: "G. Thisell" Subject: [Elecraft] About KAT1 C0-C5 test Some of us appearantly have experienced difficulties to tune some antennas to the KAT1. We have then turned to the KAT1 manual, page 14 and have tested L0 through L4 and C0 through C5. The "L" test usually is "fb" but the "C" test produces no significant result - the swr is almost not changed at all - when going through the 5 capacitors 10, 22, 39,82 or 151 pf - even at high qrg:s. Have e-mailed around and found a responce from Gary at Elecraft: "To test the atu this way, you need to use the highest freq. band you have for the K1. Lower freq. bands will not produce enough reactance during the test to show much change in SWR. I just did it here using 17m, and there was a large SWR reading for all positions of L1-L4 and C0-C5. L0 produced a r1.0 reading, L1=r1.6, L2=3.3, L3=7.6, L4=r9.9 C0 was r5.0, C1= r4.9, C2=r4.6, C3=r4.2, C4=r4.0, C5=r4.6 I'd try changing the feedline or antenna length slightly, since sometimes a high SWR voltage node appears right at the rig and this may help move it away enough that the atu's limited range can effect a match. I've done this often with good results." For those of you like myself who have tried to come up with something via the CO-C5 test, this is interesting - and it contains the solution! (But in the same way questions the info on page 14...?) I have 3 different multiband antennas, and one of them would not "tune" on 7 and 14; SWR more than 4. Refering to the "atu´s" limited range" (above), I simply cut out 4,5m of 60 Ohm coax and connected extra in series with the antenna - following Garys suggestion up there. And voila´ R1.0 on both 7 and 14! But I have to take the extra 4,5m cable away when I switch module on my K1 for 18 and 21, otherwise it wont tune there.. So the KAT1 tuning range seems to be somewhat limited and (quote page 15) is optimized for use with long, random-length wire antennas.. The problem is probably that some multiband antennas show very heavy reactances. Before adding for example the extra 4.5metrs 60 Ohms, my multiband loop showed 1700pF capacitive reactance on my MFJ-259B and after adding the cable length 118pF. Joe +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:42:53 -0800 From: Wayne Burdick Subject: Re: [Elecraft] sidetone Hi Sonny, The new K1 firmware (that you got with the KAT1 option) "beeps" at the start of tune but doesn't generate a continuous tone. This was necessary because the main processor reads SWR data from the KAT1 via the auxBus during TUNE. Due to hardware limiations, sidetone can't be generated while the auxBus is in use. 73, Wayne N6KR ssmithson at rtol.net wrote: > > Hi, > After installing K1AT I can't hear my sidetone during tune. There is > output and the tuner and radio works wonderfully. Is this normal? > 73 de Sonny > K1-380 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 09:53:16 -0400 From: "Morrow, Michael A." Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KAT1 - done ... not so hot Brian, I think your KAT1 is working properly. The KAT1 only has 1,024 different possible combinations of L, C, and network configuration to use to find a match. That sounds like a lot, but the KAT2 has 131,072 different combinations available, while antenna tuners like the MFJ-941 have an infinite number of positions possible in its two variable capacitors for each setting of the inductance switch. These limitations in the hardware of the KAT1 means that you often won't be able to get it to match the odd antenna-side impedance to get very low SWRs. You could try adding some length to your transmission line to see if the resulting impedance presented to the KAT1 can be more closely matched. On the other hand, in the real world, a VSWR of 2.5 is not all that bad. Even it you got it to 1.0, you'd still have the same amount of loss in your transmission line. The lower value just makes the K1 transmitter happier, and the K1 manual says that a VSWR of 2.1 is recommended, but high SWR is tolerated. 73, Mike / KK5F > ---------- > From: Brian B. Riley, N1BQ[SMTP:n1bq at wulfden.org] > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 6:51 PM > To: elecraft at qth.net > Subject: [Elecraft] KAT1 - done ... not so hot > > Well, .my missing caps showed up yesterday ... I just got done > finishing my KNB1 and KAT1 and 1.09E firmware upgrades. The firmware > upgrade was simple and the noise blanker seems to work just fine ... > buttttt ... I am less than thrilled with the KAT1 ... I did all the > calibration and got it up and running on 40 meters hooked to my G5RV > (YES, I know that ATUs in general are not terribly fond of G5RVs on 40m) > but the KAT1 got a 2.5 to 1 and said that was the best it could do ... > now I can hook up my MFJ 941 and get nearly 1 to 1 even on 40m and even > my LDG Z-11 which also gets indigestion on the G5RV on 40 m can still > get 1.5 to 1 ... on 20 meters it does somewhat better getting a 1.3 to > 1, but my Z-11 can get 1.1 to 1 there on 20, they both ought to get 1.1 > to 1 or better onn 20 meters as that is the optimal freq for the G5RV > .... > > Anyway, have I done something wrong here? It ought to be able to do > better than 2.5 to 1 .... I have checked everything, and am at a loss > what to try next. > > 72 de brian, n1bq ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:57:43 -0600 To: "Mike Willey" , elecraft at mailman.qth.net From: Tom Hammond =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=D8SS?= Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT1 Question Mike: >Just installed the KAT1 on SN#998 K-1. Calibrated per the manual and >everything looks good when using dummy load. The tune up on the antenna >seems to work fine with SWR around 1.2- 1.4 indicted on the K-1 when complete.. > >Here is my question.. I have an SWR meter in line and the SWR on the >external meter and the K-1 are substantially different. The external meter >reads much higher (2-3:1). (The external meter reads 1:1 with the dummy >load as does the K-1) The external meter is still reading the UNMATCHED SWR. The 'matched' SWR exists ONLY between the output of the KAT1 and the INPUT to the K1. The act of tuning the KAT1 changes nothing on the coax or the antenna... just that which is 'seen' by the K1. So... yes, you SHOULD expect to see two entirely different SWR readings when comparing the SWR as displayed by the K1 and that displayed by the external meter. 73, Tom Hammond N0SS +++++++++++++++++++ From: "Sandy, W5TVW" To: "Ken Newman" , "List Elecraft" , "Dave Hottell" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 with KAT1 giving PLO errors Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 22:03:22 -0500 I have had this trouble to a slight degree. Note that the KAT1 has a limited range of reactances/impedances it can handle! Much greater range than the typical "built-ins" on the rice boxes, but not as wide a range as the typical "matchbox" or "transmatch" external tuner. I have had very few REASONABLE mismatches it can't take care of, save trying to load a 10-12' whip on 40 meters, etc. or something equally absurd. (It will do a 12' whip nicely IF you have a bit of base loading included!) I will be curious to know what Gary and Wayne come up with as to the improved algorithm. 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Hottell" To: "Ken Newman" ; "List Elecraft" Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 with KAT1 giving PLO errors | Hi Ken, | | Unfortunately this is a known problem with the KAT1. I have had | correspondance with Gary and Wayne on this problem and Wayne has indicated | that he will be working on revising the algorithm for tuning, but no time | table has been set that I know of. | | So in the meantime carry some extra feedline so you can add or remove a | little - which will usually get it to work - or carry a ZM-2 or something | else that has a wider range than the KAT1. | | 73 es gl, | Dave | AB9CA | | | | At 08:20 PM 6/10/02 -0400, Ken Newman wrote: | >A moderate SWR on 15 and a little higher SWR 20 meters show a lot of PLO | >errors when tuning. 15M gives that error if as low as 1.8:1. This doesn't | >have that | >much on 40 or 30. Anybody having this problem? Looks like I'm going to | >carry a tuner to load an less than perfect antler. | > | >Ken Newman - N2CQ | >Woodbury, NJ 08096 | >N2CQ at ARRL.NET ++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 22:11:40 -0700 From: Phil Wheeler Organization: Outstanding To: Timothy Gordish Cc: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ATU1 Help! Timothy Gordish wrote: > After enjoying my K1 for about a year, I decided to add the ATU1 so > that I can more easily use it in the field with a random wire > antenna. I just finished it tonight and it seemed simple enough to > build. But of course it has those nasty toroids which I never seem to > have any luck with. Well it went through all the checks just fine, > but when I finally tried to tune up the dumby load it didn't work. > The relays clicked and chattered but the SWR remained at 9.9 and when > the chattering stopped I got a reading of P L o. Doesn't make much > sense to me since the rig seems to be transmitting just fine according > to my wattmeter. > Possibilities: o Missed one of the sockets when plugging into filter board. o Did not remove jumper from pins on the 10-pin jack o Did not lift the resistor on RF board o Faulty Dummy load o PIC on KAT1 in backwards Not that I can say any of these are "likely", just possible. 73, Phil +++++++++++++++ Reply-To: "Mike Branca" From: "Mike Branca" To: "Timothy Gordish" , Subject: Re: [Elecraft] ATU1 Help! Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 08:13:12 -0400 Hi Tim, I had the same problem when I built the LDG tuner. Seems that I wound the SWR toroid backwards. Yup, I didn't follow the directions properly. My simple fix was to swap ends of the RF single wire going thru the center, Mike W3IRZ in Conyers Georgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Gordish" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:10 AM Subject: [Elecraft] ATU1 Help! > After enjoying my K1 for about a year, I decided to add the ATU1 so that > I can more easily use it in the field with a random wire antenna. I > just finished it tonight and it seemed simple enough to build. But of > course it has those nasty toroids which I never seem to have any luck > with. Well it went through all the checks just fine, but when I finally > tried to tune up the dumby load it didn't work. The relays clicked and > chattered but the SWR remained at 9.9 and when the chattering stopped I > got a reading of P L o. Doesn't make much sense to me since the rig > seems to be transmitting just fine according to my wattmeter. > > Any ideas from the peanut gallery what I have done wrong? My first > thought was bad toroids so I did a resistance check on the pads and they > all tested good, then I heated up the solder joints one more time for > extra measure. Still no joy. > > Tim Gordis +++++++++++++++++++ Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:12:23 -0700 From: Timothy Gordish To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] KAT1 Fixed Well, it must be genetic. My father was infamous for mixing up the hot and cold water lines while doing household plumming. It seems that I have the same problems, and switched a couple of the leads to T1. After making the switch everything works as advertised! Thanks for the help folks. Tim Gordish AE6GL ++++++++++++++++ From: Wayne Burdick Organization: Elecraft To: "Sandy, W5TVW" Cc: Norman W Osborne VE3CJE , Elecraft Subject: [Elecraft] Re: K1 auto tuner Sandy, > Occasionally, I have some funny problems on 15 meters, but on 40/30/20, > usually no problem, unless you are trying to use a 8' piece of wire or > something equally ridiculous.... If your "funny problem" is a "PLO" (power too low) message, you may not have the latest KAT1 firmware. We recently upgraded it to revision 1.3 and increased the matching range that the firmware can handle, eliminating the "PLO" messages. 73, Wayne N6KR +++++++++++++++++++ From: "Rick Dettinger" To: "Mike Zak" , Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KAT1 - stumped Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 21:38:53 -0700 Mike The same thing happened to me. I had failed to cut off the leads on the resonator, Z1, as instructed in the manual. These leads are not much longer than relay leads, but they are long enough to contact one of the xtal cans on the filter board . This was visible by sighting between the two boards with the top cover removed. After cliping the leads the tuner worked correctly. 73 Rick K7MW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Zak" To: Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 11:44 AM Subject: [Elecraft] KAT1 - stumped Hints appreciated: I have a complete K1-4 that works GREAT and I have been having a load of fun with it. It has RF Board Rev E and Filter Board Rev B. K1 MPU rev 109. I decided to go ahead and construct the KAT1, which is on PCB Rev. C. As many of you know, there aren't a lot of parts on it and it goes together quite easily. I went ahead and mounted it on the filter board, disconnected R36, and have been unable to power it up. When I scroll to the ATU portion of the menu, and try to EDIT, I get the dreaded three dashes "- - -". Just went through the troubleshooting suggestions in the manual, which are kinda sparse. Reseated the KAT1 MPU, went around the socket for U1 and reheated all the pins on the bottom of the board. Verified that K1 firmware release is 109, looked for solder bridges. I have enough experience with these designs so far (a Norcal 40a and the K1) to know that they usually work when you bring them up unless you've done something pretty dumb - any suggestions as to what I could have done (or not done) to fail to get the K1 controller to register the presence of the KAT1? Mike - W1MU +++++++++++++++++++ From: "Don Brown" To: "Doug Person" Cc: Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Help with KAT1 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:12:20 -0600 Hi Ok can you touch your jumper connected to the antenna to each one of the toroids and see if the received signal gets lost on any of them. Check the relays for a unsoldered pin. Set the tuner menu to L1-L4 one at a time then turn off the K1 and check for a low resistance reading from pin 1 to pin 9 of P2. If you get a reading of more than 1 or 2 ohms then that inductor has a bad solder joint. Also make sure the control IC does not have any bent under pins in the socket. Don Brown KD5NDB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Person" To: "Don Brown" Cc: Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Help with KAT1 > Yes. It's not going to be something that obvious. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Brown" > To: "Doug Person" ; > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:44 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Help with KAT1 > > > > Hi > > > > Did you remember to install the little one turn loop on T1 and disconnect > > R36 > > > > Don Brown > > KD5NDB > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Doug Person" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 3:28 PM > > Subject: [Elecraft] Help with KAT1 > > > > > > Of all the kits to have trouble with... The KAT1 is pretty simple but > it's > > got me stumped. On page 9, I go through the steps to calibrate the SWR > > bridge but the voltage at TP1 varies only slightly between 1.6 and 2 > volts. > > Power out under any circumstances with the Kat1 installed is 0. Can > receive > > only faint signals. With KAT1 out, the K1/4 works perfectly. If I clip a > > test lead to the center pin of the antenna coax and then touch P2 pins > 9-10 > > signal levels come way up. If I touch K4 pin 3 signals come way up. Same > > for K1-K3. I've examined ever part with a magnifying glass looking for > > trouble. Everything looks perfect. I pulled out T1, carefully rewound it > > with fresh wire and reinstalled - no change. I know I'm missing something > > pretty basic. I just don't know what. Appreciate any assistance very > much. > > > > Doug -- K0DXV > > K2/100 #1920 K1/4 #1297 ++++++++++++++++ From: "Lyle Johnson" To: Subject: RE: [Elecraft] SWR bridge in KAT Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:01:24 -0800 QST, Qpril 1959, pages 24-28. > Can someone please direct me to info on the theory behind the SWR bridge > used in the KAT2 (and KAT1)? +++++++++++++++++ From: "Don Brown" To: "Bob - AG5Q" , Subject: Re: [Elecraft] SWR bridge in KAT Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:08:14 -0600 Hi The theory of operation and specifications are in the manual for the KAT1, KAT2 and KAT100. You can download the manuals from the Elecraft website. They are basically a L network with a series inductor and a parallel capacitor. The capacitor can be placed at the input or the output. The KAT1 ranges from 0 to 5uH and 0 to 300pF. The KAT2 and KAT100 ranges from 0-20uH and 0-2400pF Don Brown KD5NDB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob - AG5Q" To: Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 11:47 AM Subject: [Elecraft] SWR bridge in KAT > Can someone please direct me to info on the theory behind the SWR bridge > used in the KAT2 (and KAT1)? > > I want to set up a model for Spice analysis of this type of bridge. > > Any help will be appreciated. > > 73/ Bob - AG5Q +++++++++++++++++