+++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:33:37 -0800 From: Phil Wheeler Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Iambic A and B and learning to use paddles "Deinhardt, Toby" wrote: > > Hi! > > I seem to remember that this as been talked about > in the past, but I do not remember if it was on > this list and when. > > I gave myself my first paddles as my birthday gift, > and now have to teach myself to use it. > > Can any of the CW gurus out there, suggest which is > the best methode to learn how to use paddles (up to > now I've used a straight key) and which K2 keyer > mode is the "better" of the two. > Not a "guru" at all (I have some fine paddles .. couple of Schurrs, even .. and still use a straight key mostly .. a really "old dog", I). But Chuck Adams wrote a nice piece on use of paddles some time ago. You can find it here, Toby: http://www.qsl.net/k7qo/sending.html +++++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:52:59 -0600 From: Tom Hammond =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=D8SS?= Subject: [Elecraft] Iambic A and B and learning to use paddles GM Toby: This is longer than I'd planned, sorry. >I gave myself my first paddles as my birthday gift, >and now have to teach myself to use it. > >Can any of the CW gurus out there, suggest which is >the best methode to learn how to use paddles (up to >now I've used a straight key) and which K2 keyer >mode is the "better" of the two. Setting up keyer paddles is a very 'personal' thing... everyone sets them a bit differently. With that in mind, I would like to suggest some 'starting point' settings: (REMEMBER: These comments are PERSONAL PREFERENCE and intended only as a possible starting point) I DO NOT consider myself to be an 'expert' on ANY topic! I have, however, taught CW classes for well over 25 years, so I do have a bit of experience in helping new ops to transition from their handkey to electronic keyers. 1) CONTACT SPACING - This is probably the place where the greatest variation in settings is to be found. Generally, for a 'beginner' to using a keyer paddle, I suggest setting the contact spacings to the width of a thin QSL card. Then, as you become more 'comfortable' with your paddles, you can make more delicate adjustments as required. With paddles, timing of paddle closure is important. If your contacts are too close together, it may become too easy to close them by accident, creating CW elements (DITs or DAHs) where none should be sent. Another point to consider is that there is a finite amount of time required to close each set of contacts. If the contact spacing is too wide, more time is required to close them. The more time required to close the contacts, the less chance you will have of being able to generate nice clean CW characters because you can't make the paddle-to-paddle contact closure quickly enough to properly time your character elements. So wide contact spacing should be avoided at all costs. Initially setting your contacts at QSL card thickness seems to be a good STARTING point, not only because of paddle-to-paddle timing, but also because the beginner usually likes to be able to "feel" the paddle closure, and you WILL get the feel of the 'click' as the paddles close. 2) SPRING TENSION - Again, strictly a personal preference item, but one which can give problems if not set somewhere close to optimum. If set too lightly, it will be much too easy to accidently close the paddles by accidental touch. If set too heavily, you will have to 'beat' on the paddles to close them in a timely manner. I feel that, in the beginning, you will want a bit more spring pressure than you will use later on. Usually, when you are learning to use paddles, it is pretty easy to have your fingers do things you don't expect them to do (twitch, and wobble a bit) as you become comfortable with using your first paddle. Sprint tension should be set so that you FEEL a bit of pressure as you close the contacts, BUT not heavy enough that you cause the paddles to MOVE when you are sending CW. In the beginning, paddles should require a moderate-to-light (but definite) touch. 3) FINGER POSITION WHILE SENDING - Remember, back in item 1, that I mentioned that contact spacing and paddle-to-paddle transition timing were the keys to sending good CW with paddles? Well, it's not ALL in the paddles! It also has a LOT to do with where you hold your fingers AS you are sending. Sending well-formed CW (esp. at higher speeds) requires that the operator minimize the length of time required to get his/her fingers from one paddle to the other paddle. If you allow your fingers to flop around, with a lot of "dead space" between the finger and the paddle, it will take you longer to move your finger back to the paddle when you need to press it. To this end, I suggest that you try to keep your 'keying' fingers close to the paddles at all times while sending. You don't HAVE to touch the paddles all the time, but don't allow yourself to 'rock' your hand back and forth too much while sending. A small amount finger spacing from the paddle, not to exceed 1/8" (3mm), should be more than adequate spacing while still allowing for rapid paddle transitions. You want to close the contacts with 'deliberate' finger pressure, but you do not want to have to BEAT on the paddles as you send. I know ops who literally have to HOLD their paddles with the other hand, to keep the paddles from 'wandering' all over the desk while they send. This usually is the result of keeping excessive finger spacing from the paddles, requiring them to exert too much effort to make theie fingers travel the required distance and then to close the paddle. 4) KEYER MODE TO USE - WITH RESPECT TO NEW CW OPS, in the beginning, some (possibly many) find that MODE B causes them to make more keying errors then MODE A. While it seems that more experienced ops seem to prefer MODE B. If I recall, the difference is in the timing of when the paddles must be closed (and for how long) in order to obtain a properly-timed multi-element character. For a beginner, I'd probably recommend using MODE A, and then starting to try MODE B once you become comfortable with the paddles/keyer. Usually it takes some time to really become 'proficient' with a keyer, so don't try too early in your efforts... KNOW that you can send good CW first. 5) IAMBIC ("SQUEEZE") KEYING VS NON-IAMBIC KEYING - This subject can REALLY spark heated debate. Iambic keying refers to the keyer logic's ability to alternate between DIT and DAH when BOTH paddles are closed at the same time. This allows the operator to form some characters with fewer movements of the paddle. For instance, if you close (and HOLD) the DAH paddle, and then close (and HOLD) the DIT paddle WHILE the first DAH is being sent, you can form the CW character "C" DA-DI-DA-DIT with only two finger movements. Likewise, you can form the character "Y" DA-DI-DA-DAH by closing nad holding the DAH paddle and then momentarily closing the DIT paddle while the first DAH is being generated. By the way, THIS is where MODE A and MODE B come into play. Mode A allows (requires) you to hold the DIT paddle a bit longer than does Mode B. Some ops LOVE iambic keying while others don't care for it all that much. It is a matter or personal preference. The NICE part is that you can use EITHER iambic OR non-iambic keying and not have to change any settings at all.. it all depends upon how you use the paddles. If you WANT to use iambic keying, you tend to HOLD the paddles closed longer, while with non-iambic keying, you alternate BETWEEN paddles more frequently. I personally use non-iambic keying, but it is because I learned to send with a keyer LONG before anyone even THOUGHT of the iambic mode. That, and the fact that I don't want to be 'limited' to using ONLY iambic keyers. If you have learned ONLY iambic keying, you may find it difficult to send with a keyer that doesn't offer iambic operation. Fortunately, I don't believe there are that many non-iambic keyers in use today. 6) Remember that most ops can send much faster than they can RECEIVE!!! This is because you can 'think ahead' about what YOU want to SEND, but it is much more difficult to think ahead of what the other guy wants to send to you. With a keyer, it is much easier to send too fast. RESTRAIN yourself! Learn to send good, well-formed, and accurate CW characters... and at speeds you CAN copy. 7) While thinking about well-formed and accurate CW characters... WORK(!) on leaving ample space between BOTH characters AND words! There is NOTHING worse than to have to try to copy someone who runs his letters (or words) together!!! Not to pick on them, but the FISTS Club has as it's motto, "Accuracy Above Speed" (or something close to that). However if I go to their calling frequencies, I will almost always hear someone calling "CW FISB" instead of "CW FISTS". I hope these folks are the ones who are LOOKING for help with their sending rather than those who are OFFERING help. But, regardless of WHO is doing it, the fact remains that you MUST learn to send GOOD CW if you want to have good QSOs, and if you want others to WANT to work you on that mode. 8) Practice (A LOT) OFF THE AIR... before you submit yourself to being copied by others who will form in impression of you by what they hear. Even today, after 43 years of CW operation, I will still sit down at the operating desk and practice sending text. Sometimes it's part of a page from a book, other times it's nothing more than sending all of the labels on the front panel of one of my radios, but I still feel the need to practice my sending OFF THE AIR just a bit. The nice thing is that once you become proficient at sending (good) CW with a paddle, you won't have to practice as often, and it will become a pleasure, rather than work, as it will probably be at the start. As I said at the start, these are ONLY my personal feelings and suggestions. I'm certain that others will feel differently and will disagree with me... and they should do so, at least to the point of giving you a number of different approaches to preparing yourself and your paddles for "life-after-handkey". Good luck, Tom Hammond N0SS ++++++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:50:04 -0700 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22D=2ER=2E_Weiss_KI=D8RP=22?=" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Iambic A and B and learning to use paddles There's no secret to learning to use keyer paddles: just do a LOT of sending (first off the air, then on the air). Keep practicing, both on and off the air. Practice some more. After MANY hours of practice, you will decide which keyer mode is best for you based on your own style of keying. Dave Weiss KI0RP At 10:44 AM 11/22/01 +0100, Deinhardt, Toby wrote: >Can any of the CW gurus out there, suggest which is >the best methode to learn how to use paddles (up to >now I've used a straight key) and which K2 keyer >mode is the "better" of the two. > >vy 73 de toby >-- >DJ7MGQ (ex dd5fz, dg5mgq) >K2 #885 + 160,NB,SSB,ATU,Batt. >DOK C12, DL-QRP-AG #1717 +++++++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:30:23 -0500 From: "David A. Belsley" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Iambic A and B and learning to use paddles Toby: I learned iambic keying using a Curtis-like A mode on an MFJ menu keyer. That A mode and the A modes on a subsequent Logikey keyer were quite similar. The Logikey has about three different "versions" (timings) of both A and B modes. Having learned the A mode, I found B mode at first to be very confusing. The opposite would have, no doubt, also been the case. But the story continues. When I first started using the K2, I tried its A mode, and was really stumped. It didn't behave like any other A mode I had used, and it was driving me up the wall. I wanted, however, to master the K2 internal keyer so that I wouldn't require an external unit in /P operation. One day, on a lark, I switched to the K2's B mode, and, lo, what a difference. It was beautiful. Of course, once I got good and used to the K2 B mode, I felt really awkward when using my Logikey A mode. So I switched it to B mode as well, and it behaved very much the same as the K2 B mode. I still don't know what the K2 A mode is, but it seems to be different from anyone else's. So, the bottom line of all this is: I would suggest you start with the B mode, and just keep at it. With keyers, you love what you know. Once you learn any mode, you'll love it. But the K2's B mode is closer to other keyer's B modes, so you will be able to switch to other keyers more easily. If you master the K2's A mode, you may have trouble with other keyer's A modes. Now just hold on to your hat, because I am sure you are going to get a lot of other conflicting information from others on the reflector. Keying is really a very personal thing. I do think, however, you will be better off starting with the B mode on the K2. The important thing to remember is that you have got to stick to it and keep practicing. At times it may appear that you're not progressing. But you really are. You've just to keep at it. One of the most important things to learn is to keep relaxed. The most serious impediment to good keying and good learning is getting tense. You can perhaps feel this happening in the elbow, in the wrist, or in the fingers. While you are keying, if you feel tensions begin to arise, consciously relax that part of your arm, even while you are keying. The control is all in the mind. A second important element is to keep your mind right up with, indeed slightly ahead of your sending. Your mind should be adjusting to what's coming up before you actually start it. And your mind should be doing this at the pace that you are sending. Particularly at higher speeds (30+) you should be aware of the pace and not let the mechanics of sending particular letters begin to drag your fingers behind the pace. There is much more to be said on this issue, but I don't have the time to deal with it here. The mind must do many things at once while keying, and that's why it can be a hard task to master. It must (a) think of what you are going to say, (b) think about the actual code to say it, (c) think about the manipulation of the fingers to effect that code, and (d) maintain the parts of your body needed to do that manipulation in an effective way. Concentrating on any one of these areas can work to the detriment of the others. So one must also learn how to juggle these tasks to keep them all in the air at the same time and to adjust to correct one if it begins to get out of whack without losing control of the others. I'm sure most good cw ops have had the funny experience of having their keying go to pot while they are trying to express a particularly difficult thought. That's perhaps the reason so many qso's are devoid of difficult thoughts (or any thoughts, for that matter). But the same can happen if you make a conscious effort to relax. But you should make that effort anyway. You might even stop sending just for a second to relax (just send AS if you need more than an instant) and proceed again. The more you are able to prevent or relax tension, the easier it will become to do so, and, hopefully, it will eventually occur automatically. A third important issue is spacing, both between letters and between words. When you send a letter, the space at is end should be as consciously a part of the code as the dots and dashes. When you think the rhythm of the letter, think it completely with the slight space following it. The letter E is dit-ah, where ah is a dit-like space. (Actually, the space between letters is equivalent of a dah... dwn...) L is dit-dah-dit-dit-ah. Some people like a Farnsworth time addition to the ah, and that may be good at lower speeds and while learning. But at higher speeds it is to be avoided. The space between words is very important. At slower speeds, words are a group of letters; at higher speeds you tend to hear words as a unit. But, at any speed, be conscious of each word group, and make sure you space it from the next word group with an obvious between-word space. There is nothing more maddening than trying to copy someone who does not space between words. I tend to drop such qsos without further notice. You can actually let your mind take an instant breather between words. "Word" - ahh - "Word" - ahh - "Word", where the "word" is a word-group of letters and the 'ahh' is an appropriate breather between them. It is the combination of appropriate between-letter spacing, between-word spacing, and maintaining pace that leads to fine, flowing code. best wishes, dave belsley, w1euy - --On Thursday, November 22, 2001 10:44 AM +0100 "Deinhardt, Toby" wrote: > Hi! > > I seem to remember that this as been talked about > in the past, but I do not remember if it was on > this list and when. > > I gave myself my first paddles as my birthday gift, > and now have to teach myself to use it. > > Can any of the CW gurus out there, suggest which is > the best methode to learn how to use paddles (up to > now I've used a straight key) and which K2 keyer > mode is the "better" of the two. > > vy 73 de toby +++++++++++++++++++ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:51:30 -0000 From: "Paul Barlow" Subject: [Elecraft] RE: Iambic modes A and B Toby, For what it's worth, a lot of commercial rigs only support Iambic mode B. I learnt to use a paddle with my IC706 (now replaced by an FT 817). It only had mode B, so that's what I used, and so I now set everything to mode B. I miss off dits at the end of letters if I try A. It may be that it's worth learning to use mode B as that seems to be universally available. I enjoy using paddles, and only use a straight key if things get very slow. 72/73 Paul M0CDP GQRP 10289 Fists 5579 K2 #2356 still in lots of bits in the box! +++++++++++++++++ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:41:56 -0600 From: Mike Subject: [Elecraft] Re: Iambic A and B Paul Barlow wrote: > For what it's worth, a lot of commercial rigs only support Iambic mode B. I > learnt to use a paddle with my IC706 (now replaced by an FT 817). It only > had mode B, so that's what I used, and so I now set everything to mode B. That, IMHO, is the **ONLY** reason to learn iambic mode B. But it is a *good* reason none the less! In case some aren't all that familiar with the difference between mode A and mode B, here's some review: All iambic keyers send alternating DOT-DASHes when BOTH paddles are held closed simultaneously. In Mode A, if BOTH paddles are released as a DOT is being sent, the DOT is completed, then keying stops. In Mode B, if BOTH paddles are released as a DOT is being sent, the DOT is completed, THEN A DASH IS ALSO AUTOMATICALLY SENT, then keying stops. In Mode A, if BOTH paddles are released as a DASH is being sent, the DASH is completed, then keying stops. In Mode B, if BOTH paddles are released as a DASH is being sent, the DASH is completed, THEN A DOT IS ALSO AUTOMATICALLY SENT, then keying stops. There's **NO** speed or reduced paddle manipulation advantage for one mode over the other. Mode B allows the paddle to be released a little earlier when making some characters. But it's easy to send an unwanted DOT or DASH if the paddle is held a little too long, since the paddle must be released BEFORE the last desired iambic DOT or DASH begins. On the other hand, if one gets accustomed to Mode B, then a Mode A keyer will often result in missing the last iambic DOT or DASH. > I miss off dits at the end of letters if I try A. I learned mode A 25 years ago, so mode B gives me fits. I tend to get an extra dot at the end of an iambic stream. I have to resort to the old "single paddle slap" method if I am forced to use a mode B keyer. > It may be that it's worth learning to use mode B as that seems to be universally available. True words and great advice indeed! I call mode B the "Microsoft" mode, because I'm convinced that it was a logic flaw in an early electronic keyer that became accepted as a "feature." Whatever perverse conditions spawned mode B and for whatever equally perverse reason manufacturers supply keyers that function only in mode B, the fact remains that mode B has become the default standard. Gotta' go with the flow, except I'm too old to change now. I do *love* the mode A keyer option on my K1. Thanks, Elecraft! 73, Mike / KK5F +++++++++++++++++ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:56:10 -0600 From: Mike Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Iambic A and B Bill Coleman wrote: > Well, I object to the term "Microsoft" mode. Not that I like Microsoft, > but I do like Mode B! I was being a little tongue-in-check with my description of mode B. > It has a specific R/S flip flop for the dot and dash memories. This is > the facility that allows a dot to come after the dash or a dash to come > after a dot. That way, you don't have to wait for a dash to complete to > send a final dot. Just tapping the dot paddle while the dash is sending > will do it. But it still requires the same number of paddle manipulations to generate a character in mode B as in mode A. Mode B just allows you to release the paddles a littler earlier. I have NEVER been able to find any value to that characteristic. I can't imagine why one would want a keyer to generate any dot or dash for which a paddle has not be closed. The paddle manipulation timing requirements are significantly less critical for mode A, compared to mode B. I do fully understand that once a person got accustomed to mode B, that it would be difficult to use mode A. I have the opposite problem. I used a straight key for the first 12 years I was a ham, followed by a Curtis Mode A keyer for the last 22 years. I have to use the single-paddle-slap mode when using my mode-B-only DSW rigs. I recommend learning mode B just because it seems to have become a default when selectable modes aren't provided. I am unconvinced of any other advantage to mode B. Mike / KK5F ++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 22:58:42 -0500 From: "Steve Lawrence" To: KD5NWA at mbayona.com Cc: qrp-l at Lehigh.EDU Subject: [123806] Re: Iambic Paddles A/B Cecil, I too remained confused about the "A" and "B" iambic modes, until I read recently the following from the 1996 ARRL Handbook, pg 22.18. I quote directly... "With A-type keying, a dot or dash being sent when the paddles are released is completed, and nothing else is sent. With B-type keying, the IC completes the dot or dash being sent upon paddle release, and then sends an opposite element; that is, a dot after a dash and a dash after a dot. "Suppose you wanted to send the letter N. If you select A-type keying you will squeeze first on the dash side then on the dot side. When you release the paddles nothing will be sent after the dot. B-Type keying is slightly less work. Squeeze the dash side, and if you release the paddle while the dash is being sent the following dot will automatically be sent. To send a single dash you must release the paddle after the dash has been completed. "Your choice of iambic keying type will probably depend on the method you first learned to use. Some operators find that the B-type keying requires less effort to produce certain characters, such as a period or the letter C. The proper timing for release of the paddles is only half the window for A-type keying, however. If you've learned to send with a keyer that uses type B, stick with it. If you've never used an electronic keyer, it is probably easier to learn to send with A-type keying." This description greatly helped me de-mystify A and B modes. For the time being, I'm struggling with mode A. It seems straight forward, and perhaps more forgiving to this hand trained on a straight key. 73, Steve aa8af +++++++++++++++ Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 13:39:44 +0100 From: Chuck Adams To: Steve.Lawrence at ITWFEG.COM, "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [123811] Re: Iambic Paddles A/B Steve, If the write up is as you posted on QRP-L for mode-B keying, then the ARRL handbook is in error. I will (later tomorrow) double check it and if enough interest then I'll post a little write up. This is not a critique of you, but of write up in the handbook. Who wrote that section? The way I read it as you posted it you said that I could send an A with only one paddle stroke. As far as I know that is impossible on any keyer....... I have yet to see a write up from anyone that did the timing state-diagram for a microprocessor on this mode. Elecraft has done an excellent job of getting mode-B as done by both Idiom Press in the CMOS-III and the way that John Curtis did it in the Curtis 8044ABM chips. I would imagine that anyone that goes through all the trouble to figure this stuff out is not going to give away company secrets.... And if anyone posts to QRP-L on the timing, please make sure you get it right. There will be a critical audience waiting in the wings. :-) I haven't come up with a scheme like a state-diagram to do it myself. Thanks Steve for digging up the writeup and posting. This will start yet another lengthy thread on the topic of mode-A vs mode-B. ;-) As for me I can only do mode-B. This was witnessed by a multitude at Pacificon when KU7Y came up with a mode-A keyer during a demo that I was doing.... :-) ;-) He still owes me for that one. When I was teaching morse classes I taught mode-B only as it was my preference and it is not that difficult. You just need to get it explained correctly. I've always wanted to take the Curtis 8044ABM keyer that I have, the MM-3 from AEA, the DSW-40, and the K1 and K2 and test them all with a microprocessor driven set of two relays with timings to see how close everyone got it Doing this is one of those future projects in a book type things. dit dit Chuck Adams, K7QO CP-60 k7qo at earthlink.net http://www.qsl.net/k7qo Moving to Arizona? --- Bring your own water, please. +++++++++++++++++++ Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 02:49:23 +0100 From: Chuck Adams To: qrp-l at lehigh.edu Subject: [123847] Iambic Keying 101 --- Part 1 Gang, I put "Part 1" in the title to cover the bases just in case. Hopefully, if I am careful enough I will get it all right the first time. Chuck Olson, WB9KZY, writes in his A and B mode article, "The mode B keyer sends an additional element opposite to the one being sent when the paddles are released." Sorry Chuck. Wrong answer. You need some additional information added to this statement for it to be correct. It is confusing to many I'm sure or maybe just me. See timing discussion below. CW 101 In the beginning there was the dit. In fact, there is a whole world of dits. They come in all sizes and tones. But the most important part is their lifetime. Their lifetime is determined by the "speed" being used by the operator. time of a dit = 1.2 seconds / WPM (memorize this formula) At 1 WPM a dit is 1200 mS long At 5 WPM a dit is 240 mS long 10 WPM a dit is 120 mS long 20 WPM a dit is 60 mS long and so on.... There is another family called the dahs and their lifetimes are exactly 3 times as long as that of the dit for the same speed. NOTE: Nowhere in the above definitions is there an allowance for deviation from the timing of each element, the dit and dah. It drives some of us crazy to hear it sent differently on the air. I often hear someone sending CQ and even though they may be strong I can't work them as their timing is all off and it is difficult for me to decipher the code being sent. And you have to ask yourself this question if you get on the air and call CQ for long times and don't get an answer. "Am I sending good code that others want to copy? The weighting that keyers have is to adjust for various response times of transmitter keying circuits to get the resulting output to sound correct. A letter is made up of a combination of dits and dahs and spaces. The spaces are exactly the same length of time as the dit element. Same for numbers, punctuation, and prosigns. BTW, if you are interested in my CD going from 20WPM to 35WPM, you will need to learn the dash, left and right parenthesis and the apostrophe. See the back of the ARRL Handbook. :-) Letters are separated from other letters by a space equal to three dits. The learning technique called Farnsworth sets the spacing to a greater time to allow the individual more time to decode the previous character. This should not be used on the air IMHO. It is a learning tool only and one should abandon it as soon as possible in order to get to higher speeds. Words are separated by a space equal to 5 times the length of a dit. The first trick in learning the code is not to graphically think about these things but to listen and learn. No charts, no graphs, no cheat sheets, etc. Otherwise you will have to come back and relearn the whole thing over using only sound. Do you have a sonic graph of the letter A somewhere showing how it sounds? Maybe if you are a linguist like Nils. :-) OK. That's the basics. Keyers 101 Forget about mode A and mode B keying right now. Concentrate on the following. Iambic Keyers have two inputs. One for the dit paddle and one for the dah paddle. A dual lever iambic paddle like the NorCal paddle, the Bencher, the Mercury paddle, the Hensley paddle, the Kent paddle, etc. has two paddles and you can set it up to have the left or the right paddle to be the dit and the opposite to be the dah. Since I started life out using a Vibroplex Deluxe chrome plated jeweled bearing "bug", I use the left paddle as the dit. It really doesn't matter but you will never find me changing and I'd guess most of us are that way. I am right handed by the way. And I was born with only two brain cells and they spend most of the time arguing. :-) So I have never had the need to send and write at the same time so I can not send with the left hand and simultaneously write with the right hand. It is enough effort for me to concentrate on sending correctly much less try to do something else at the same time. ;-) Bravo to those of you that can send and write at the same time. What are you doing? Copying what you are sending? :-) ;-) Let's start with the dah paddle, as it gives us more time to play around. Set the speed at 1WPM (if that is possible). Now touch the dah paddle. You can make contact for 1 uS, 1 mS, 0.25 S, 0.50 S, or 7.1 S and only one dah will be sent (unless there is a programming bug or glitch). In fact if you are coordinated enough you can make multiple contacts during this time period and still only one dah will be sent. But Heaven help you if the dah paddle is still depressed at 7.2S after the start of the first dah. You will get a second one whether you want it or not. To send one dah you only need to touch the paddle one time and release it BEFORE the start of another element in the timing scheme determined by the speed. The important concept here is that paddle depression (not a disease) or closure isn't critical to get a beautiful element sent. That is the function and purpose of a keyer --- to give you beautiful output with some leeway on just how you touch (not slap) the paddles. As long as the ONE paddle is depressed the keyer will continue to send dahs (same for the other side except you get dits). And what happens when you release is critical as to determine if the keyer is through or has one more element to send. AND if the paddle is closed at the time another element is to start, then you will get that element. There is no memory involved here --- either for mode A or B. They both work the same. Iambic Keying 101 With a dual paddle there is one more physical condition that can occur and that is that both paddles are closed, i.e. depressed, at the same time. This is called squeeze keying. As long as both paddles are closed simultaneously a sequence of alternating dits and dahs will be sent. Sounds like iambic pentameter rhythm in poetry and I hope you didn't sleep through that class in English. Now the hard part(s). The first element to be sent is determined by the first paddle to be closed. If by some miracle you can get both contacts to close simultaneously the all bets are off. My guess is that the gate that hits the on or "true" condition first internally wins the race and that element gets sent first. It's not enough to lose sleep over 'cuz you usually know what you want first and you make sure that paddle gets closed first. If the keyer is microprocessor based then the first element will be sent is determined which of the two inputs was being "poled" or tested at the time of closure or if interrupt driven then another issue. Dot and dash memory. The keyer has circuitry or an algorithm built in (if it is a programmed microprocessor) to "store" a dit or dah temporarily that will be sent at the next opportunity that can occur, i.e. after a space element. Do the following. Hold down one paddle and send a continuos string of elements. Lightly tap the opposite paddle That opposite element will be inserted into the string at the next window of opportunity and that will be at the start of what would be the next dit or dah that was being sent in a string. The timing requirement is that when the key is depressed, if an element is in progress, then the new element will get sent at the next start time after the space element. And if the key is depressed in the middle of the space, then you get the immediate slot. Got it? I knew you would. Mode A and Mode B What the difficulty and all the discussion is about is what happens at the time of release, i.e. the time at which a paddle is opened. And this is where differences occur that determine mode A vs. mode B. In mode A. When the paddle or paddles are released, either during a space element or during a current element being sent, then sending is stopped after the completion of the current element being sent. It was simple to do, thus mode A came first. In mode B. And this is the part that everyone that I have seen explain this misses. What is very very critical is that you have to look at the condition of the paddles at the MIDPOINT of the current element being sent. I just spent 15 minutes doing this with the Idiom Press CMOS-III keyer on the lowest speed I could get (about 3WPM). I will go back and do this with the Curtis 8044ABM. I could not test this on the K2 as the lowest speed it will go is 9WPM and I'm not that coordinated or fast enough. Wayne B. may or may not tell us if he did the code this way. (My guess Brad is that AEA was the first to do mode B in their line of keyers that were microprocessor based.) If at the mid point of an element the opposite paddle is still depressed, then the alternating element will be sent after the space. If you can let go of the opposite paddle before this critical time (the midpoint), then you won't get anything from that paddle, unless you reclose it before the finish of the space. Everything that I have seen in print by others implies that if the opposite paddle is closed at the beginning of the element then you will get the opposite element sent. This is not supposed to be the case and if any of you software guru's in your code for the mode B have it this way I'd suggest changing it. I had this discussion with Dave Benson, K1SWL (I still miss NN1G Davey), in the first version of the DSW-XX software as it drove me crazy, but he fixed it. OK, let's try this with the letter A. You can touch dit and then dah rapidly before the dit completes and you will get the letter A in mode A or mode B. This is because of the "memory" feature of the keyer. Neato stuff. Or, you can hold the dit and squeeze the dah. You must release the dit paddle BEFORE the half-way point in the dah. If the dit paddle is still depressed at the half-way point then you automatically get the letter R in mode B. In mode A you have to continue to hold the dit paddle until the dit starts after the dah. I have been able to verify this with the CMOS-III and I'd have to spend a heck of a lot of time on the others to find out how they do it. Personally I have a great deal of difficulty at higher speeds if the algorithm varies from the above conditions. I don't know how everyone is doing this in their keyers as I spend most of my time using a CMOS-III to drive the QRP-10A and the SWL-XX+ rigs which are my favorites even though I own a K1 and K2 and several TenTec Corsair I's. I like simple 'cuz the two brain cells get confused by all those bells and whistles. I guess it goes back to the old Heath HW-16 rig that I loved so much.... :-) John Curtis in his write up did not give a timing diagram and it would be interesting to see if there was one or if he could do one at this time. Brad may have found this out in writing his article and I have to go back and print it off and see. The question may not have come up, but I'm sure in the TICK keyers there must have been some consideration of this problem of what to do during the first half of an element. Chuck Olson's timing diagram on page two is perfect and that is what we need to illustrate how this works. Chuck what do you do if you draw the Mode B diagram and release the dit paddle at a point BEFORE the mid-point of the second dah. If you do, then you should only get the letter K. Didn't you do a keyer and did you do it this way? Inquiring minds wanna know. :-) And where I think this timing issue is critical? At the higher speeds above 30WPM where the human response time is critical. I think by not having the half-point check will make sending more frustrating and difficult. IMHO. OK, gang. I spent half the morning working on this and let's hope that I didn't waste my time or valuable bandwidth posting this. I'll put it in a book and by that time I will have experimented with the other keyers even if I have to microprogram a 16F84 driving relays to test algorithms at critical time periods. There are still many questions to be answered and so little time. I love doing this stuff as it makes one sit down and think through what others were trying to do but didn't give us the working diagram(s).... A form of reverse engineering like in the old days of disassembling code. :-) Enjoy and see you on the air. Please do not repost this to QRP-L. To many postings have a complete copy of the previous postings and it is a waste of bandwidth IMHO. I'll have a post of that topic next week sometime. :-) When I work someone on the air I do not give a single thought as to whether the person is right or left handed or using a keyer/straight key as long as I can copy it cleanly. It doesn't matter whether you are using mode A or mode B and I can't tell on the other end. I am trying to work up a mathematical scheme for rating someone's code. Like the scoring used in the Olympics from 10.0 for perfect to 1.0 for unreadable and terrible. Something that a code copying computer could output for evaluation. And spelling does count on the air. :-) I am the only person in the world that has sent using Morse by paddle most of the words in the Merriam-Webster Pocket Dictionary and I won't tell you how much time I spent. Helped the sending and surely helped the spelling. Try it sometime. Or even sit down with the daily newspaper and send a column (not on the air BTW). Try mode B with your keyer. And I may not be the only person to have done this, but I have listened to the KJV of The Bible, both Old and New Testaments, at over 60WPM. This was easy as I downloaded the text off the Internet, so I didn't have to type it in. Used the SGI O2 to create the CDs. There was and still may be code practice on the air using this text as practice on 40 meters. If you want to or feel the need to put this in a newsletter, let me know first. I may want to edit and take away or add something that may be needed. Thanks in advance. dit dit es cu P.S. right parenthesis is KK left parenthesis is KN apostrophe is WG FYI :-) Homework: Take the PIC 16F84 project on page 22.62 of the 2001 Handbook. Use it as a code practice oscillator using a straight key as input to one of the input ports. Setup a timing such that it will only send perfect dits and dahs from input from the straight key. Advanced Homework. Now do an Iambic Keyer with option for mode A or mode B. :-) Hard to break the old teaching habits. :-) Chuck Adams, K7QO CP-60 k7qo at earthlink.net http://www.qsl.net/k7qo Moving to Arizona? --- Bring your own water, please. ++++++++++++++++++ Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:40:19 +0100 From: Chuck Adams To: qrp-l at Lehigh.EDU Subject: [123895] Timing Diagrams Gang, A number of people have asked for some timing diagrams and I'll try to do that on Monday. Sorry but I start traveling in the a.m. and won't be home until late Sunday or early Monday of next week. Glad to see that people are thinking about this. After the post I got to thinking. There may be a mode B1 and a mode B2 dependent upon whether the programmer latched the next element at the mid point or the start of the current element. Another point. If you have only ONE paddle closed, the next element is not determined until after the space and only if the paddle is still closed. If the opposite paddle was closed at any time then you have that element generated because of the memory feature. Let me see if I can come up with a series of timing diagrams to illustrate this. There are so many combinations and it is the reason why no one has done this. It takes a lot of work. After this we'll have to take a 16F84A and program one for all to see how the code works in a PIC processor. I'll put the code in public domain when I get through. dit dit de K7QO/m on the road to fame and fortune :-) Chuck Adams, K7QO CP-60 k7qo at earthlink.net http://www.qsl.net/k7qo Moving to Arizona? --- Bring your own water, please. +++++++++++++++ Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:47:37 -0700 From: Wayne Burdick Organization: Elecraft To: ik2bcp - Guido Tedeschi Cc: elecraft reflector Subject: [Elecraft] Re: Iambic A and B in K1 ik2bcp - Guido Tedeschi wrote: > It seems to me that the Iambic A is working in the same mode of Iambic B; > this mode must be the clone of Curtis A mode but this is not true... Hi Guido, I just tested Iambic A and B modes and they do appear to functioning correctly in firmware revision 1.09. An easy way to check the difference between the two is as follows: 1. Set speed to the slowest possible (8 WPM). 2. Set power to zero by using the OUT menu entry. (A quick way to set power to zero using this menu entry is to EDIT the parameter and leave it unchanged, but hold DISPLAY to toggle to P=0.) 3. Select Iambic mode A using the IAB menu entry. 4. "Squeeze" the two keyer paddles together so that you get a repeating "DIDAH". Now, release both paddles during the beginning of a dash. In mode A, this will not generate an additional dot. 5. Switch to Iambic mode B. 6. Squeeze the paddles again, and release both paddles during the beginning of a dash. An extra dot should be generated. It is this extra dot on squeeze-release-during-dash that defines mode B. It can make sending smoother for some people and impossible for others, which is why we provide both modes. The exact moment at which the extra dot is "latched" (acknolwedged) varies in different implementations. We emulated two of the most popular implementations, Curtis mode A and Super-CMOS II mode B. Let me know if you still feel that A and B are same on your K1. I'll need to know what revision of firmware you're using. 73, Wayne +++++++++++++++++ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:25:24 -0500 From: "David A. Belsley" To: Daniel L Brinneman , elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Iambic A and B Daniel: The difference has to do with what happens after you release an iambic condition. An iambic condition is where the dot and dash paddles are held simultaneously (i.e., squeezed). You can approach the iambic condition two ways: dot first and dash first. "Dot first" means you start with the dot paddle and follow immediately with the dash while holding the dot, so there is some time when they are held together. "Dash first" is the same when starting with the dash. Most chips are designed so that one or the other of these conditions is always recognized (i.e., it is not possible to hit them at exactly the same time). [Note: because of the way the K2 is designed to accommodate a straight key mode, it does recognize a truly simultaneous hit, which could sometimes cause problems. If, however, you are not using the straight key mode, you can turn this feature off in one of the menus.] Both modes usually have what is called 'auto complete.' That is, even if you release the iambic condition before it is complete, it will not just stop where you let up, but will continue to finish off the character. Thus, in iambic A mode, if you start with a dash, hit the dot before the dash is complete (while still holding the dash -- that makes the iambic condition), and then release both paddles before the initial dash is finished, the keyer will nevertheless complete the dash and send the dot, thus sending the letter N. Likewise, if you start with a dot, hit dash (without releasing the dot), then release both, the keyer will send a complete dot and dash, thus sending the letter A. Iambic mode B differs from the foregoing in that, under exactly the same conditions as above it will add an element to the character that is opposite the last element. Thus, under the conditions described above for the letter N, since the last element was a dot (you started with a dash), a dash will be added to produce dash dot dash, i.e., the letter K. And under the conditions described above for the letter A, a dot will be added to produce dot dash dot, i.e., the letter R. Thus, in iambic B mode, an element is actually added to the character that was never explicitly sent. A single squeeze starting with the dot will produce R and a single squeeze starting with the dash will produce K. To produce N in this mode, you start with the dash, but then you must lift the dash paddle before hitting the dot. This does not mean you must wait for the dash to complete before hitting the dot, just that you must not allow the dot to hit while the dash paddle is still down. If you hit the dash, let up and hit the dot all before the dash is complete, the 'auto complete' feature will in fact produce a perfect N. The K will not be sent because an iambic condition was never established in this sequence of events. Some find the "addition" feature of B mode to be disconcerting. Others find is a real benefit. I, personally, began with A mode on a CMOS III keyer, which is very good. I found it very difficult, however, to grow accustomed to the A mode on the K2 keyer, and, strangely, found it much easier to master the K2's B mode. Now it is by far my favorite keyer. It's your call. I would simply try them each for a short while, get a quick idea which has the greater promise for your style of sending, and then stick with your pick (either one). You will eventually learn it fb. best wishes, dave belsley, w1euy --On Monday, March 3, 2003 10:01 PM -0500 Daniel L Brinneman wrote: > Greetings, > > Can someone take time to explain to me, in small detail, the difference > in feel and hearing of the Iambic A and B selections?? Does it effect > spacing between dits and dahs? And what is the adjustment of the Dot > menu for? > > Daniel > kg4dni > www.kg4dni.com - Webmaster ++++++++++++++++++