From majordomo-owner@berlioz.nsc.com Mon Jun 2 13:42:18 1997 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 97 13:42:16 PDT To: jmoss From: majordomo@berlioz.nsc.com Subject: Majordomo file: list 'laser' file 'laser.9705' Reply-To: majordomo@berlioz.nsc.com Content-Length: 222177 -- >From owner-laser Thu May 1 12:05:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07767; Thu, 1 May 97 12:05:50 PDT Date: Thu, 1 May 97 12:05:45 PDT From: jmoss (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705011905.AA07761@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser Subject: [LASER] Which Circuit for OPT210? Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From owner-laser@ns1.qsl.net Thu May 1 09:58:06 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f From: "Guy Hamblen" To: "Laser" Subject: [LASER] Which Circuit for OPT210? Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 12:53:29 -0400 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-laser@qsl.net Reply-To: "Guy Hamblen" Content-Length: 1037 Thanks everyone for sourcing information on this device. I've got several in hand, feedback resistors are in the mail. Now can I get existing OPT1210 user experience re: the following questions: 1) I assume (dangerous I know...) that the easiest circuit (per the Burr-Brown App Notes) is the Fig. 3 "Single Power Supply Operation"? 2) Is 12v operation recommended? 3) If 12v operation, did you use a 5.6v zener or lower value? 4) Did you use electrolytics to bypass to ground pins 1 & 8? 5) Did you build this circuit in a shielded box? 6) Does the on-board opamp provide sufficient output to drive a set of headphones or did you add another opamp gain circuit? If so what low noise device? Any highpass filter circuits? Is there any need for a bandpass filter circuit to get rid of audio highs? I am using a 3" PVC with a focusing lens (f/4") - - how did you mechanically place the OPT210 so the focused light source falls on the photodiode? My approach would be trial-versus-error.... Thanks in advance....Guy N7UN/2 ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Thu May 1 13:18:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10153; Thu, 1 May 97 13:18:01 PDT Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:01:54 -0400 Message-Id: <199705011901.PAA01604@ns1.qsl.net> X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@berlioz.nsc.com From: Majordomo@qsl.net Subject: Welcome to laser Reply-To: Majordomo@qsl.net Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk -- Welcome to the laser mailing list! Please save this message for future reference. Thank you. If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe laser laser@berlioz.nsc.com If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the list itself) send email to . This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need to contact a human. [Last updated on: Sat Apr 26 23:08:16 1997] The LASER reflector is intended for use by anyone interested in free space laser communications. Associated with this reflector is a website located at: http://www.qsl.net/wb9ajz/laser/laser.htm For more information contact either: k3pgp@juno.com or wb9ajz@qsl.net >From owner-laser Thu May 1 16:29:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16546; Thu, 1 May 97 16:29:18 PDT To: laser@berlioz.nsc.com Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 19:24:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [LASER] Mystery Signal Message-Id: <19970501.192500.6334.7.K3PGP@juno.com> References: <19970430.225239.3454.0.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-86 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Due to some technical problems this never made it to laser@berlioz. Here's a resend ----- On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:06:31 -0400 k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) writes: >Mystery Signals >------------------------ > >I ran across something the other night that is totally baffling me. > >I had the PMT system propped up in the back yard and was setting up to >run some scatter tests when all of a sudden I ran across someone >else's signals and believe me, they aren't weak. > >I have heard these signals before. However I was using the solid >state detector at the time and since the signals were just above the >noise level with that detector they were pretty easy to ignore and I >just thought they were some type of electrical interference. After >all who else around here has a laser communications setup! Well I >heard them again but this time with the PMT and they about blew the >speaker cone out! > >I have placed a 48 second audio file of this at: > >ftp://qsl.net/pub/k3pgp/mystery1.zip > >The file is approx. 152 kb and shouldn't take very long to dload. >It's recorded as a .WAV file with a sample rate of 8000 Khz. > >These signals were coming from ABOVE the horizon when I did this >recording. I have no way of telling if they are being reflected back >from the atmosphere or if they are originating beyond the atmospere >and I have no idea if the source is moving or not. Further >observations are neccessary to determine this. I have a couple of >guesses as to what these signals may be but I don't want to throw >anyone off in case I'm wrong. I'm a bit baffled by their strength but >I know part of this is due the PMT which is working extremely well at >the moment. > >The signals appear to be coming from a pulsed IR laser. However, the >rep rate seems to vary as well as the strength. > >THIS IS NOT SOME TYPE OF A JOKE and this is NOT electrical >interference. I am very serious about this. It lasted long enough >for me to cover the lens and verify that it is indeed an optical >signal. The question is, who's ??? > >PLEASE download this file. Give it a listen and let me know if you >have any ideas as to what it may be or if you have ever heard anything >like this. > >Now that I know it's really an optical signal I'm going to watch for >it and try to determine it's source. Unfortunately it seems to show >up randomly. > >Send your reports to laser@qsl.net. They will be forwarded to BOTH >lists if you do this. > >This is the weirdest thing I've ever run into and I would appreciate >any and all comments. > > >John >K3PGP@juno.com > >-==- ----- On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:52:39 -0400 k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) writes: >To All: > >I forgot to mention that my laser was NOT turned on during the >recording. The signals you are listening to are NOT my own laser >being reflected back. > >I'll let everyone know my thoughts as to what I think this signal is >in a couple of days. > >John >K3PGP@juno.com > >-==- -==- >From owner-laser Thu May 1 20:36:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23872; Thu, 1 May 97 20:36:36 PDT From: "Dave All" To: Subject: How to determine focal length Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:32:05 -0400 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19970502033300.AAA27068@default> Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, This is my first posting to the reflector, but have been involved with laser com. since the middle of winter when the Feb issue of QST in the Above 50 MHz article. Was a laser pen laser project. Well it worked and amazed my father who is also a ham and rover for VHF/UHF contest. He went out and purchased the set up himself. Now I really have two questions- 1) I would like some information on how to determine focal length, useing a 3'' magnafiying lese taped to the end of a 3" cardboard mailing tube. The plastic cap at one end has a small Radio Shack photo cell. with a small hole to allow for the wires to get to the out side the tube. I am also in need of some resorces as to where to purchase solid state receiveing equipment. 2) I had picked up a laser from a recent ham fest. It has a 110v input power supply. The length of the tube is apx. 1.5'. Would like some info on ideas to modulate a voice signal with out createing damage to the laser tube. And minumal modifications to the power supply. If you would like to reply direct you may do so Dave N3XUD n3xud@netrax.net Thanks in advance for any and all help on these questions. >From owner-laser Thu May 1 22:14:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26482; Thu, 1 May 97 22:14:29 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Thu, 1 May 97 22:13:15 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705020513.AA26441@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] 210 ccts Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Guy, I've done it 2 ways 1) use 2 9v batteries in series. Use connection between the 2 batteries as ground, thus giving you -9 and +9 from the batteries. 2) use 1 9v battery, and use 2 39K resistors in series, use the middle connection as ground. Add about 10uF from this ground to the - side of the battery. Both seem to have good performance. Jim WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi Sunnyvale, CA >From owner-laser Thu May 1 22:14:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26469; Thu, 1 May 97 22:14:09 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Thu, 1 May 97 22:06:13 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705020506.AA26257@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] mystery guess Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk John, I downloaded your WAV file, and listened to it with a friend at work. We decided it was the sounds of reflected light off of insect wings flying thru your RX beam pattern. Very interesting! Jim WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi Sunnyvale. >From owner-laser Thu May 1 22:19:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26637; Thu, 1 May 97 22:19:56 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Thu, 1 May 97 22:18:50 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705020518.AA26599@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] 210 ccts more Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Guy, - I did bypass the main supply (the batteries) with 10uF electrolytics. - A shielded box is a must. An option is to put the cct inside a plastic bag and then wrap aluminum foil around it (be sure to leave a ground connection out to connect to the foil). - You need more gain to drive headphones and speaker. Suggest A LM386. Has built in 60 Hz rejection of 40-60dB Works pretty good. - You might even want to add one more stage of amplification for weak signals. - I mounted my 210 on an eyepiece lens cap, so I can put it on any bino's or scope. Jim >From owner-laser Thu May 1 22:52:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27528; Thu, 1 May 97 22:52:41 PDT Date: Thu, 1 May 97 22:52:38 PDT From: jmoss (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705020552.AA27507@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser Subject: How to switch over to laser@qsl.net Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From jmoss Thu May 1 22:49:36 1997 To: laser Subject: How to switch over to laser@qsl.net Content-Length: 335 1) get subscribed to laser@qsl.net * send a message to: majordomo@qsl.net * in the body enter-subscribe laser 2) get unsubscribed from laser@berlioz.nsc.com * send a message to: majordomo@berlioz.nsc.com * in the body enter-unsubscribe laser 3) post all future emails to: laser@qsl.net" Jim WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi Sunnyvale, CA ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Thu May 1 22:42:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27246; Thu, 1 May 97 22:42:19 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970502013914.00683c70@mr.mailbank.com> X-Sender: Dave-Riley.net@mr.mailbank.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 01:40:50 -0400 To: laser@qsl.net From: Dave Riley Subject: [LASER] Myster Signal Answer? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: Dave Riley Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk >ftp://qsl.net/pub/k3pgp/mystery1.zip > >The file is approx. 152 kb and shouldn't take very long to dload. >It's recorded as a .WAV file with a sample rate of 8000 Khz. > >These signals were coming from ABOVE the horizon when I did this >recording. I have no way of telling if they are being reflected back >from the atmosphere or if they are originating beyond the atmospere >and I have no idea if the source is moving or not. Further >observations are neccessary to determine this. I have a couple of >guesses as to what these signals may be but I don't want to throw >anyone off in case I'm wrong. I'm a bit baffled by their strength but >I know part of this is due the PMT which is working extremely well at >the moment. > >The signals appear to be coming from a pulsed IR laser. However, the >rep rate seems to vary as well as the strength. > >THIS IS NOT SOME TYPE OF A JOKE and this is NOT electrical >interference. I am very serious about this. It lasted long enough >for me to cover the lens and verify that it is indeed an optical >signal. The question is, who's ??? > >PLEASE download this file. Give it a listen and let me know if you >have any ideas as to what it may be or if you have ever heard anything >like this. > >Now that I know it's really an optical signal I'm going to watch for >it and try to determine it's source. Unfortunately it seems to show >up randomly. My best guess is that this is a laser radar system. The different pitch bursts being the different speeds of the vehicles the laser is hitting. The louder ones seem to be lower pitched, which might be slower moving trucks. I have never "heard" or seen a laser radar system in operation but based on your description of the random times and condx this is my guess... 73 Dave Riley - KG8W dave@riley.net Trustee SMART Repeater - N8KD http://www.qsl.net/smart >From owner-laser Thu May 1 23:28:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28368; Thu, 1 May 97 23:28:43 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 02:24:31 -0400 Subject: [LASER] How to switch over to laser@qsl.net Message-Id: <19970502.022433.4350.4.K3PGP@juno.com> References: <199705020411.AAA17947@ns1.qsl.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-32 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Jim: I took care of this for you. (I hope !!! ) On Fri, 2 May 1997 00:11:13 -0400 owner-laser@qsl.net writes: > > >1) get subscribed to laser@qsl.net > send a message to: > majordomo@qsl.net > in the body type: > subscribe laser > >2) get unsubscribed from laser@berlioz.nsc.com > send a message to: > majordomo@berlioz.nsc.com > in the body type: > unsubscribe laser > >3) post all future emails to: > laser@qsl.net > >Jim >WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi Sunnyvale, CA > > John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Fri May 2 04:23:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB00191; Fri, 2 May 97 04:23:55 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970502063452.26bfcfb0@mail.snet.net> X-Sender: paulc@mail.snet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: laser@qsl.net From: "Paul A. Cianciolo" Subject: [LASER] Mystery signals Reply-To: "Paul A. Cianciolo" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hello John and the list, I have downloaded your recording and listened to it several times. Before I listened judging by your post I was going to suggest that you may be hearing a LIDAR some was operating. After listening however I think I know what the sounds are. What I suspect you are hearing is the effect the wing s of flying insects make as the pass into your field of view. Before you laugh I have been running , off and on a laser, unmodulated, out to a mirror on the barn 200' away, and reflecting it back to a RX in the shop. I have listened to raindrops falling, snowflakes, insects, and birds wings. If you listen closely you will so freqs that are the same and others of different freq., The smaller the insect the faster the wings beat. The larger the slower. Some moths make a very low pitch. It is truly amazing how much crap you stir up in a lawn after it is mowed. The sounds that I have heard are exactly the same as the ones on your recording. A mist of water make an incredible tapering echo effect. Anyway this has been my experience with the laser I have mounted under my deck and reflecting back to the shop. 73's PaulC KB1RP >From owner-laser Fri May 2 04:40:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00556; Fri, 2 May 97 04:40:43 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <199705021136.HAA20211@host-04.colby.edu> X-Sender: aballen@colby.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 07:36:17 -0500 To: laser@qsl.net From: "Art Allen, KY1K" Subject: Re: [LASER] Myster Signal Answer? Reply-To: "Art Allen, KY1K" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hey John, This is AWESOME!! A PRIME example of using the list and the www for its intended purpose, thanks for taking the time to post the message and the .wav file. OK, regarding NON-LOS laser communication, I've heard that the military tries it and that they use it on a regular basis. Its possible you might have intercepted some of that type of communications. I know they use BIG lasers, multi multi watt units, should be easy pickins if you are LOS or near LOS from the transmitter.... If we suspect that the signal is the result of an active radiating source (rather than a passive reflector), then it should be easy to locate with a ccd camera, esp'ly if its local. We assume you meant the rx was pointed at open sky when you heard the signal. I'm wondering if someone in your neighborhood might be running a wireless lan or other type of data tx and perhaps you could be picking up reflections associated twith that transmitter? So, HOW sporadic is this signal??? If it is reflections off of bugs flying around, it should be somewhat sporadic, but it should occurr often, esp'ly as it gets warmer. Around here, we still have snow in the woods, but the moths are out to some degree. Skeeters to come soon, probably within a few days. But, down south, I expect you have leaves on trees and all kinds of flying insects already. I can't offer any comments regarding its source. But, I would look at the frequency components of the fluttering sound-is it absolutely constant in frequency? Also, we could rule out insect scatter IF we could verify that there was no 60/120 hz component in the received signal-and reflection would contain 60/120 hz frequency components. What does the FFT show when looking in the 60/120 hz range? I hope we can get to the bottom of this. Maybe the FEDS can help us out hi hi. GL...Art... >From owner-laser Fri May 2 05:12:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01301; Fri, 2 May 97 05:12:06 PDT From: Kb8tej1@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 08:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <970502080916_-1633625476@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: k3pgp@juno.com, laser@berlioz.nsc.com Subject: Re: [LASER] Mystery Signal Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk This is beginning to sound like the wild and wooly days of 5M when everybody "knew" VHF was "Only" LOS!! Lets keep plugging! Rob >From owner-laser Fri May 2 08:33:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06644; Fri, 2 May 97 08:33:43 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f From: daveaa1a@ssih.com Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:30:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199705021430.KAA18149@ssih.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [LASER] Re: Second Dave Riley ? To: laser@qsl.net In-Reply-To: <19970502.100521.6414.1.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Reply-To: daveaa1a@ssih.com Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Oh SURE.. We're everywhere.. Glad to see more Dave Rileys on the list.. Final version of BASEBAND TRANSVERTER for LowFer to Light almost ready for showing.. This has been a very good brainstorming medium.. Tnx to all the folk's here.. The more THOUGHTS/QUESTIONS/ANSWERS here, the more minds fertilize... Keep America HUMMIN.. 73's de daveaa1a .. Keep the LIGHTS on.. On Fri, 2 May 1997, k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) wrote: >Dave: > >I thought you might be interested in this. > >Do you know this Dave Riley? > >He's also a subscriber to laser@qsl.net! > >>73 >>Dave Riley - KG8W >>dave@riley.net >> >>Trustee SMART Repeater - N8KD >>http://www.qsl.net/smart >> >>Reply-To: Dave Riley > >John >K3PGP@juno.com > >-==- > > > >From owner-laser Fri May 2 10:05:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09025; Fri, 2 May 97 10:05:35 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:59:52 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705021659.AA05754@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] cold mirror person??? X-Comment: If this is a short message, its not meant to be curt, just quick. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk oops... Whoever you are (and YOU know who you were), PLEASE resend your snail mail address to Doug... Thanks! ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From music@Tempe.ate.slb.com Tue Apr 29 15:13 MST 1997 From: music@Tempe.ate.slb.com (Doug Music) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:18:15 -0700 (MST) Subject: ARGHHH To: c1040@azfms.com Mime-Version: 1.0 I went and lost the snail mail address to that guy who wanted a cold mirror. Geez... Can you contact him again for me? Thanks, -Doug Douglas E. Music Voice: (602) 345-3625 FAX: (602) 345-8793 Pager: (888) 710-1508 Pager email: 905071@pagenet.net Email: music@san-jose.ate.slb.com __o _`\<,_ _______(*)/_(*)__________ ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Sat May 3 08:11:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23700; Sat, 3 May 97 08:11:53 PDT From: sjnoll@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 10:07:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705031507.KAA01877@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [LASER] Hamamatsu R647 vs R647-01 PMT To: laser@berlioz.nsc.com In-Reply-To: <19970428.203548.14382.0.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.10.06.22 Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) wrote: >Can anyone tell me what the difference is between a Hamamatsu R647 and an >R647-01 PMT is? > >I am running tests on a several of these here and all I can find are >specs for the R647. I was wondering what the -01 meant ??? > >John >K3PGP@juno.com > >-==- The -01 is "Selected for scintillation counting", is a little more sensitive, and has lower dark current. 73, Steve J. Noll | Ventura CA | WA6EJO | sjnoll@ix.netcom.com | http://www.netcom.com/~sjnoll/usedequip.html | http://www.netcom.com/~sjnoll/peltier.html >From owner-laser Sat May 3 11:04:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26925; Sat, 3 May 97 11:04:02 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Sat, 3 May 97 10:56:15 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705031756.AA26842@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] re: How to determine focal length Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Dave, see comments embedded in your message below> > From owner-laser Thu May 1 23:47:49 1997 > From: "Dave All" > To: > Subject: How to determine focal length > Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:32:05 -0400 > X-Msmail-Priority: Normal > X-Priority: 3 > X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=ISO-8859-1> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com > Content-Length: 1176 > > Hi everyone, > This is my first posting to the reflector, but have been involved with > laser com. since the middle of winter when the Feb issue of QST in the > Above 50 MHz article. Was a laser pen laser project. Well it worked and > amazed my father who is also a ham and rover for VHF/UHF contest. He went > out and purchased the set up himself. > > Now I really have two questions- 1) I would like some information on how > to determine focal length, useing a 3'' magnafiying lese taped to the end > of a 3" cardboard mailing tube. The plastic cap at one end has a small > Radio Shack photo cell. with a small hole to allow for the wires to get to > the out side the tube. I am also in need of some resorces as to where to > purchase solid state receiveing equipment. The focal length is the point where a distant point source comes to a point behind the lens. For example: use a light bulb 20' away, place the lens between the bulb and a piece of paper. Adjust the distance between the paper and the lens until the bulb is seen on the paper clearly or as a point. That is the distance you are looking for. When you mount the lens in the tube... be sure to place the detector the same distance behind it as you measured with the paper and lens. RS sells a photo transistor.. I think it will easily outperform the solar cell. Look at our home page at http://www.qsl.net/wb9ajz/laser/laser.htm There is a schematic for a cheepo laser RX/TX system. Try that. BTW: there is a missing resistor in the schematic. The second opamp in the RX chain needs a 1K to ground off the feedback resistor. We've also been talking about the Burr Brown OPT210 and 211 as good RX units. THey have a built in PIN diode detector and opamp. The data sheets are available at BB's www site, or at our laser site in the "data" subdirectory. > > 2) I had picked up a laser from a recent ham fest. It has a 110v input > power supply. The length of the tube is apx. 1.5'. Would like some info > on ideas to modulate a voice signal with out createing damage to the laser > tube. And minumal modifications to the power supply. If the supply uses a low voltage DC input, you can place a transformer in the LV side and modulate the input with audio. The archives from the laser reflector are available also at the web site. They are in month buckets. Jim WB9AJZ/6 > > If you would like to reply direct you may do so > Dave N3XUD n3xud@netrax.net > > Thanks in advance for any and all help on these questions. > > >From owner-laser Sat May 3 14:27:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00904; Sat, 3 May 97 14:27:46 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:21:08 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Mystery Signal Hint # 1 ! Message-Id: <19970503.172319.8934.0.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,6-7,13,17-20,22-23,29-30,39-44 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk To ALL: Thanks to all that have responded so far. Like many of you, I also suspected that the signal/signals was/were caused by insects. It does sound remarkably like the wings vibrating back and forth. There's only one problem. I live far enough north that it hasn't warmed up enough to see ANY insects yet! We've had a couple of very recent cold spells where the temperature dropped below freezing for a couple of days and managed to kill the blossoms on all the fruit trees plus kill off most of the insects before they even came into being. There are no leaves on the trees as of yet, but they should start in a week or so. It was 36 degrees the evening the recording was made. By the sounds of the recording there would have to be a LOT of insects flying around and I doubt that we would have that many around here even on a hot summer night in the fall. So I THINK we can safely rule out insects as a source of the signals. Before I give my thoughts on the subject, anyone care to take another guess? Now that I've heard these signals with the PMT setup, I know I have been hearing these for some time now, but when using the solid state detectors they were just above the noise floor and I always thought I was picking up some kind of electrical interference. Like any good investigator, one should assume nothing and investigate everything until the source it found! By the way, I have heard these signals two more times since making the recording. These did not last as long and were much weaker. It sounded like I was only hearing the peaks of the stronger signals. I have been searching the horizon trying to find the source of these signals but so far I can only hear them by pointing up. The search is being done with two laser receive setups running simultaneously so I know when the signals are present. Based on what I think the source of these signals are, the only propagation mode I can come up with would either have to be cloud bounce or back scatter. John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Sat May 3 18:29:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05106; Sat, 3 May 97 18:29:46 PDT Message-Id: <336C0086.3EFC@Prodigy.Net> Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 20:20:38 -0700 From: kc5an Organization: Prodigy Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: laser@berlioz.nsc.com Subject: mystery sig: how to play? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Well hell-- I guess I have to reveal myself as the PC IDIOT that I am.... I have a 486 dx 50 using windows 3.1. Can somebody please take me by the hand (or knock me over the head) & show me how to convert John's .zip mystery signal recording to .wav so that I can listen to it? Thanks, John Cauley KC5AN Coppell, TX >From owner-laser Sat May 3 18:38:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05280; Sat, 3 May 97 18:38:57 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:29:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Clifford Buttschardt To: Jim Moss Cc: laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] PCV Lens In-Reply-To: <9704292250.AA29245@berlioz.nsc.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: Clifford Buttschardt Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hi Jim and the net....First, let me say I've been gone to sea for almost a month now and have not been able to attend to the laser group as I would have liked---but the interest is still there. The "going to sea" job should be over in another two weeks. Regarding larger diameter tubing, I found the cardboard center support used by carpet and floor covering suppliers just right for this! They come in various diameters and are simply thrown away by them. Cliff Buttschardt K7RR Morro Bay, CA On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Jim Moss wrote: > All, > I ordered 2 of the 8" lenses to play with! > Any one have a source for 8" cardboard tubes? > Jim > >From owner-laser Sat May 3 18:25:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04993; Sat, 3 May 97 18:25:11 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f From: Kb8tej1@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <970503212039_1651954996@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: k3pgp@juno.com, laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Mystery Signal Hint # 1 ! Reply-To: Kb8tej1@aol.com Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk John, Just an idle speculation (bad Pun hunh?) I still occasionally follow Navy stuff, reliving my misspent youth!, and I have run across a couple of references to the navy using orbit-to-earth lasers as part of the TACMO ( Take Charge and Move Out) C3 system for coordinating our nuclear forces if the bad thing happens. I don't have the software, or the knowledge frankly, but would it be feasable to "Wash" the signal you have and see if any of the known digital systems "bite" on it? It may also be of benefit if we laser heads could build an audio library of light noise and signals (i.e. tower strobes, police LIDAR, tv remotes, LANS etc.) and have something to compare on "Mystery Signals." Nuthin better to do 73 Rob >From owner-laser Sat May 3 20:54:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07413; Sat, 3 May 97 20:54:57 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970503230526.26ef37aa@mail.snet.net> X-Sender: paulc@mail.snet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: laser@qsl.net From: "Paul A. Cianciolo" Subject: Re: [LASER] Mystery Signal Hint # 1 ! Reply-To: "Paul A. Cianciolo" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk John and the group, I guess you have never heard of the cold weather laserbeatle... That thrives in the PA. area. HI HI HI I understand your need to investigate all the possible answers. I noticed on the recording doppler shift in both rising and falling directions. This was typical of my early exploits of reflecting the laser off the barn and listening to the RX signal. Also I heard the same lower pitches indicative of the lower wing speed of the larger insects. I will think about this more from now from a mechanical perspective and see if I can come up with some other plausible explanations. After all if may be some mechanical explanation like ..... I don't know maybe index of refraction differences bending atmospheric light, caused by echolocation of bats. Much the way light bends in a mirage from the heat. To answer your question.. I just thought that with the superior sensitivity of your system that the insects in question would not need to be directly adjacent to your physical location. They could many hundreds of feet away, or up? Did you sat somewhere that your solidstate RX the noises are just above the noise floor? The recording you posted the noises were way above the noise floor!! I really need to locate a PMT RX!! BTW ... what do you think about this. If I can get good returns from a target about 1 mile away(2 miles round trip) that using the same target 2 miles should be attainable. I would say most of the loss in the circuit is the scattering and reflective loss is in the target. I look up the percent return signal in a lighting handbook that I have and a flat surface painted white will return about 4% to 5% power. Assuming that the diverging losses incurred don't effect you, distance from the target should not be that critical. especially if I could up the power 10 db or so.. to 30 to 40 mw. With a good target and a PMT RX and 30- 40 mw laser seems like a 10-20 mile path should be possible Then assume better collimation like .5 mr or better and some integration software..who knows I maintain that the previous scattering experiments are just the tip of the iceberg. I want to hear more about this from anyone interested. I think cloud bounce and laser comm. between 2 NON-LOS parties of distances of 5-10 miles is a real possibility!! What say all???????????????/ At 08:19 PM 5/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >Paul: > >OK, like I said I have to investigate ALL possibilities. > >What type of insects are active at 36 degrees? > >Or are you suggesting I'm hearing insects that are NOT in this area??? > >Maybe I'm hearing those insects down south. They always were a noisey >bunch! Sure messes up laser skeds when the skips in! > >Sorry for the kidding! > >I AM taking your suggestion very seriously Paul. I'm just having some >trouble with it based on my limited knowledge of insect activity at low >temperatures. We generally don't get temperature inversions this time of >year. Since the ground temp was 36 F (and about this temp over most of >the NE when the recording was made) I would think the upper atmosphere >would be even colder making temps there freezing or below. Most insect >activity that I'm aware of stops (or slows to a crawl) well above 36 F. > >Boy the things you get to research when working with lasers!!! > >PS - Most of the noise increase when looking skyward is from man made >light scattering back from the atmosphere with a little thrown in from >starlight (& planets etc.) and moonlight when it's up. > >How's the response time been on laser@qsl.net? > > >John >K3PGP@juno.com > >On Sat, 3 May 1997 18:09:45 -0400 (EDT) "Paul A. Cianciolo" > writes: >>John, >> >>I recall you mentioning that you could hear the noise from the sky as >>you panned your RX above rthe horizon. If this is true the sounds of >the >>insects would not necessarily be close to you, thet could be a >>considerable distance away >> >> > >-==- > > 73's PaulC KB1RP >From owner-laser Sat May 3 23:43:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11021; Sat, 3 May 97 23:43:34 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 02:10:52 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Re: mystery sig: how to play? Message-Id: <19970504.021103.3830.0.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-7,10-11,15-16,18-19,23-48 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk John: Most files are sent in a compressed format to save online download time. The file in question would have been over 388 k if sent as a .WAV file. By using PKZIP it was compressed down to 152 k, a substantial savings in connect time. ZIP files (the most common compressed PC format) are easily handled with a program called PKZIP, PKUNZIP, or WINZIP. Although you can extract the file from the DOS prompt using PKUNZIP, I suggest that you go to www.winzip.com and download WINZIP for Windows 3.1. The file will install itself and from there on you just point and click to ZIP or UNZIP a file. This program also handles the UUENCODE and UUDECODE formats that are used on here from time to time to send graphic images as text files. If you need further instructions give a holler and I'll talk you through it step by step. NOTE: You will get much faster response to your posts if you subscribe to laser@qsl.net and send your posts there. Anything sent to laser@qsl.net is also echoed through laser@berlioz. It just takes a little longer :-^) . John K3PGP@juno.com ----- On Sat, 03 May 1997 20:20:38 -0700 kc5an writes: >Well hell-- I guess I have to reveal myself as the PC IDIOT that I >am.... > > >I have a 486 dx 50 using windows 3.1. > >Can somebody please take me by the hand (or knock me over the head) & >show me how to convert John's .zip mystery signal recording to .wav so > >that I can listen to it? > >Thanks, >John Cauley >KC5AN >Coppell, TX > -==- >From owner-laser Sun May 4 00:52:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12527; Sun, 4 May 97 00:52:55 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: kc5an@prodigy.net, laser@qsl.net Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 01:18:08 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Re: mystery sig: how to play? Message-Id: <19970504.012052.9598.0.K3PGP@juno.com> References: <336C0086.3EFC@prodigy.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-7,10-11,15-16,18-19,23-48 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk John: Most files are sent in a compressed format to save online download time. The file in question would have been over 388 k if sent as a .WAV file. By using PKZIP it was compressed down to 152 k, a substantial savings in connect time. ZIP files (the most common compressed PC format) are easily handled with a program called PKZIP, PKUNZIP, or WINZIP. Although you can extract the file from the DOS prompt using PKUNZIP, I suggest that you go to www.winzip.com and download WINZIP for Windows 3.1. The file will install itself and from there on you just point and click to ZIP or UNZIP a file. This program also handles the UUENCODE and UUDECODE formats that are used on here from time to time to send graphic images as text files. If you need further instructions give a holler and I'll talk you through it step by step. NOTE: You will get much faster response to your posts if you subscribe to laser@qsl.net and send your posts there. Anything sent to laser@qsl.net is also echoed through laser@berlioz. It just takes a little longer :-^) . John K3PGP@juno.com ----- On Sat, 03 May 1997 20:20:38 -0700 kc5an writes: >Well hell-- I guess I have to reveal myself as the PC IDIOT that I >am.... > > >I have a 486 dx 50 using windows 3.1. > >Can somebody please take me by the hand (or knock me over the head) & >show me how to convert John's .zip mystery signal recording to .wav so > >that I can listen to it? > >Thanks, >John Cauley >KC5AN >Coppell, TX > -==- >From owner-laser Sun May 4 21:32:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02779; Sun, 4 May 97 21:32:27 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Sun, 4 May 97 21:22:18 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705050422.AA02542@berlioz.nsc.com> To: PaulC@snet.net Subject: [LASER] Re: Laser printer? Cc: laser@qsl.net Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Paul, Got into the printer and found the laser diode. Is mounted in an aluminum disk. Has 15 ohm resistor in series to a darlington pair. Looks like 5v feed to it. powered it up with 3v and 4.5v and 6v at 3v get about -6dbm output. and draws about 75 mA at 4.5 v gets >5dbm and draws about 180ma at 6v gets 3 dbm and draws >300ma (didn't keep it on long) the meter I used is for fiber, only goes to 5dbm. I could see a "orangish" spot on the wall. Also detected well and stayed "small" when detected on an IR card out to 20 feet. How much power??? guess 10mW or so based on current alone. wavelenghjt... guess 780 based on some IR led's Ive used recently and what they looked like off white paper. As always... excersizing caution when dealing with an unknown. The diode came from an apple laserwriter that was in the trash. nice first surface mirrors, fiber, and spinning prism inside the assy. Anyone know anything about these things? Also found some at a local surplus house for about $15-25 for the assy's. some with and without the diodes. Jim WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi Sunnyvale, CA Jim WB >From owner-laser Mon May 5 07:42:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04028; Mon, 5 May 97 07:42:09 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:38:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [LASER] Mystery Signal Hint # 1 ! Message-Id: <19970505.103842.3366.4.K3PGP@juno.com> References: <19970503.172319.8934.0.K3PGP@juno.com> <336CB6C1.4DE3@emerald.oz.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,9-18,20-25,27-39 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Thanks Randy!!! These are the type of comments that are very helpful and is the main reason why I decided to ask people for opinions rather than simple express mine. I never knew airports were using something like this! Could you do some invetigative reporting and try to find out the type of laser they are using, power level, wavelength, whether modulated / pulsed etc. And of course the location and times of operation. (24 hours, random, etc.) This type of info would be extremely helpful to a LOT of people ! Anyone ever hear one of these in operation? ----- To ALL: Please send your comments to laser@qsl.net so everyone can benefit by your knowledge! John K3PGP@juno.com On Sun, 04 May 1997 08:19:00 -0800 hamradio writes: > >John: > > We have a powerful IR laser out at our local airport that is used >to measure the cloud ceilings. I don't know what one of these >"sounds" like but maybe one of those (with some scattering, etc.) is >responsible? > >de Randy, W7HR > -==- >From owner-laser Mon May 5 10:44:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23942; Mon, 5 May 97 10:44:01 PDT Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:32:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Walter Miller To: wayne hilliard Cc: Laser Messages Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, wayne hilliard wrote: > By the way anybody ever try a reflecting telescope for laser work? > I have a 4.5 inch meade scope gathering dust and figured it might just work > out!! Opinions? Wayne, et al: Yes, I use my Celestron C90 spotting scope for laser communication work and it performs very well. After some discussion with optical experts at work, I decided to remove the eyepiece completely and located my OPT210 detector at the position of the focused image from the primary/secondary mirror. This position was somewhat further out than the eyepiece. I focused the telescope on the moon, and placed a white card behind the telescope to locate the focal plane. I just jury-rigged my OPT210 board (courtesy of Jim, WB9AJZ) at that spot, but I would suggest you make a better light-tight housing to avoid spurious pickup (I had a QRM problem with the flashing beacon on top of the tower on the mountaintop I was using). I used the small finding telescope which comes with the C90 to locate WB9AJZ's VERY BRIGHT 4mW 670 nm beam at a distance of 20 miles, and moved the whole assembly on the tripod to maximize the audio signal from the OPT210 (pointing was pretty touchy....a smoother tripod mechanism would have been nice). The finding telescope and the main telescope were not perfectly aligned to each other, but once I found the "hot spot" in the finder field of view, it was relatively easy to return to the correct position for max signal. By the way, my laser transmitter (4 mW 670 nm pointer laser with 800 Hz 555 timer keying) was mounted on a common plate with the telescope on the tripod. The laser in turn was secured to an Edmund Scientific XY tilt stage (about $36 mail order) with very fine screw adjustments. Anyway, a small commercial telescope works quite well as the receiving optics for an amateur LOS laser communication link. 73, Walt ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Walter Miller, AJ6T Saratoga, CA USA CM87 Reply to aj6t@slip.net >From owner-laser Mon May 5 22:15:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07663; Mon, 5 May 97 22:15:30 PDT Date: Mon, 5 May 97 22:15:27 PDT From: jmoss (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705060515.AA07657@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser Subject: kc5an mystery guess Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk From: kc5an Organization: Prodigy Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: laser reflector Subject: [LASER] Mystery Sound:guess Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-laser@qsl.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: kc5an Thanks for your h*e*l*p, John. I downloaded the winzip application you told me about, and was finally able to listen to the mystery signal. As a beginner to all this, I offer the following: 1. I have read that automobile headlights have a unigue sound when monitored in the visual range due to modulation from the Alternator. 2. I believe that a good bit of the energy from auto headlights is also radiated as heat (i.e., infrared) 3. Extrapolating from this, I would guess that the infrared energy radiated from the headlights is modulated with the same tone as that detected for the visual portion. 4. I "hear" what seems like an upward Doppler shift in the signals. Hypothesis: Is it possible that the signals are reflected (modulated) IR from headlights of vehicles that are rapidly APPROACHING some reflective surface in your area? Regards, and many thanks for your help... John Cauley KC5AN Coppell, TX ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Tue May 6 00:46:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09423; Tue, 6 May 97 00:46:09 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 03:18:30 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Best Laser DX ? Message-Id: <19970506.031846.13382.0.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5,8-13,15-16,19-26 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk So far I haven't received a single response to my query about the longest laser DX contact. It seems to me that these contacts should be documented either on this list or on a web site somewhere but so far I have turned up nothing other than what I was able to find by going through old QST articles. Since this info is extremely old, I hope someone can fill all of us in with more recent data. I've heard rumors of a 175 mile contact (could it be KY7B and WA7LYI ?) but so far I can't confirm this. ----- >From QST - Dec. 1988 - Pg. 87 1963 - 1 way voice - W6POP / W6QYY - 118 miles - He-Ne laser - 12 inch telescope into PMT. 1988 - 2 way MCW - KY7B / WA7LYI - 95.6 miles - 30 mw HeCd lasers (operating at 442 nm) and receivers equipped with 10 x 24 inch fresnel lenses and PMTs. Working on attempt at 175 mile path. ----- John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Tue May 6 01:56:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09987; Tue, 6 May 97 01:56:10 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <9705060851.AA21173@omnigroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) In-Reply-To: <9705060515.AA07657@berlioz.nsc.com> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) From: William Lewis Date: Tue, 6 May 97 01:51:22 -0700 To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Re: kc5an mystery guess References: <9705060515.AA07657@berlioz.nsc.com> Reply-To: William Lewis Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk I thought I'd add my own random thoughts to everyone else's... > 4. I "hear" what seems like an upward Doppler shift in the signals. Doppler shift from a moving modulated source shouldn't be large enough to be audible unless the source is moving extremely quickly. After all, we're talking light, not sound. Doppler shift might be audible if the noise generating source is actually moving relative to the "modulator". For example, imagine a reflective street sign on a highway, illuminated by floodlights. As cars pass, they vibrate the sign, and this vibration is impressed on the reflected light. Here's my own wacky theory: what about the aurora? John mentions he lives pretty far north. I live in the city and so rarely see the aurora, but I remember it does flicker a bit. I don't know if it flickers in the audible range or what it might sound like or even whether auroras give off much light in the near-IR. But an auroral discharge might be "audible" to John's setup even when there isn't any visible aurora. The easy way to test this, I suppose, would be to wait for an aurora, and then check whether it sounds similar to the Mystery Signal... Wim Lewis / wiml@omnigroup.com >From owner-laser Tue May 6 07:15:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12140; Tue, 6 May 97 07:15:55 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <199705061411.KAA13818@host-04.colby.edu> X-Sender: aballen@colby.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 10:11:20 -0500 To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) From: "Art Allen, KY1K" Subject: Re: [LASER] Best Laser DX ? Cc: laser@qsl.net Reply-To: "Art Allen, KY1K" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hi John, The current world record for 2 way laser communication (to the best of my knowledge) is between wa7lyi and ky7b on June 8, 1991 @ 153.97 miles. There is a full article in September 1991 CQ mag-page 46. Hope this helps. GL...Art.... At 03:18 AM 05/06/1997 -0400, you wrote: >So far I haven't received a single response to my query about the >longest laser DX contact. It seems to me that these contacts should be >documented either on this list or on a web site somewhere but so far I >have turned up nothing other than what I was able to find by going >through old QST articles. > >Since this info is extremely old, I hope someone can fill all of us in >with more recent data. I've heard rumors of a 175 mile contact (could it >be KY7B and WA7LYI ?) but so far I can't confirm this. > >----- > >>From QST - Dec. 1988 - Pg. 87 > >1963 - 1 way voice - W6POP / W6QYY - 118 miles - He-Ne laser - 12 inch >telescope into PMT. > >1988 - 2 way MCW - KY7B / WA7LYI - 95.6 miles - 30 mw HeCd lasers >(operating at 442 nm) and receivers equipped with 10 x 24 inch fresnel >lenses and PMTs. Working on attempt at 175 mile path. > >----- > >John >K3PGP@juno.com > >-==- > > >From owner-laser Tue May 6 08:12:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12920; Tue, 6 May 97 08:12:25 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:09:16 -0400 Subject: [LASER] BB OPT-210 Source ? Message-Id: <19970506.110919.9974.2.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-7,11-12,16-22 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Digi-key stocks the BB-OPT-211 but so far I can't find the 210. I'm interested in obtaining some data by comparing the OPT-210 against my PMT setup. Does anyone have an extra one they could sell or know of a source that doesn't have a minumum order? Has anyone actually made comparisons between all (or some) of the different OPT devices ? I think this is the type of data that would be most useful to everyone. Most of us would like to know which variety of this detector has the best weak signal sensitivity. I suppose this data would have to be collected at at least two or three wavelengths (such as 632, 670 & 780 nm) using several different modulating frequencies, such as 800 Hz for MCW use, and 10 to 20 Khz or so for SSB, NBFM use. John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Tue May 6 10:29:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15569; Tue, 6 May 97 10:29:56 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:22:25 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705061722.AA00782@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Best Laser DX ? Cc: music@san-jose.ate.slb.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk > > Hi John, > > The current world record for 2 way laser communication (to the best of my > knowledge) is between wa7lyi and ky7b on June 8, 1991 @ 153.97 miles. Using, I believe, HeCd. > There is a full article in September 1991 CQ mag-page 46. > > Hope this helps. > > GL...Art.... > > > > >>From QST - Dec. 1988 - Pg. 87 > > > >1963 - 1 way voice - W6POP / W6QYY - 118 miles - He-Ne laser - 12 inch > >telescope into PMT. > > > >1988 - 2 way MCW - KY7B / WA7LYI - 95.6 miles - 30 mw HeCd lasers > >(operating at 442 nm) and receivers equipped with 10 x 24 inch fresnel > >lenses and PMTs. Working on attempt at 175 mile path. > > > >----- > > Ok, I too believe these are the 3 records (one broken by themselves). Anybody got the time to research those 3 records, create some html, and put them on the laser web site? (Shucks, as a start just putting those 3 records in a record history table would be a fine start!) rusty >From owner-laser Tue May 6 10:56:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16018; Tue, 6 May 97 10:56:13 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <199705061755.NAA05966@host-04.colby.edu> X-Sender: aballen@colby.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 13:55:14 -0500 To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) From: "Art Allen, KY1K" Subject: Re: [LASER] Best Laser DX ? Cc: laser@qsl.net Reply-To: "Art Allen, KY1K" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk If someone has a scanner with character recognition software, I'd volunteer to get copyright permission and do the html setup as needed to get it on the www. I have a scanner available, but it does not have char recognition capability. It's a very nice article-would be great to add it to the collection of laser stuff we already have on the www. What say? Art... At 10:22 AM 05/06/1997 -0700, you wrote: > >> >> Hi John, >> >> The current world record for 2 way laser communication (to the best of my >> knowledge) is between wa7lyi and ky7b on June 8, 1991 @ 153.97 miles. > >Using, I believe, HeCd. > >> There is a full article in September 1991 CQ mag-page 46. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> GL...Art.... >> >> > >> >>From QST - Dec. 1988 - Pg. 87 >> > >> >1963 - 1 way voice - W6POP / W6QYY - 118 miles - He-Ne laser - 12 inch >> >telescope into PMT. >> > >> >1988 - 2 way MCW - KY7B / WA7LYI - 95.6 miles - 30 mw HeCd lasers >> >(operating at 442 nm) and receivers equipped with 10 x 24 inch fresnel >> >lenses and PMTs. Working on attempt at 175 mile path. >> > >> >----- >> > > >Ok, I too believe these are the 3 records (one broken by themselves). >Anybody got the time to research those 3 records, create some html, >and put them on the laser web site? (Shucks, as a start just putting >those 3 records in a record history table would be a fine start!) > >rusty > > >From owner-laser Tue May 6 11:48:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16869; Tue, 6 May 97 11:48:18 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:40:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [LASER] Best Laser DX ? Message-Id: <19970506.144036.9254.1.K3PGP@juno.com> References: <199705061755.NAA05966@host-04.colby.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-7,10-11,15-22,24-25,27,29-33 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk I have a scanner, character recognition software, and even a web site. However, wouldn't it be easier to write our own article? That way we wouldn't have to bother with copyrights. If I can come up with the article I'd be happy to re-write it but so far I can't find anyone with back issues. I don't think we need a big production anyway. Just a simple list of equipment used, type of modulation, distance covered, and whether a line of sight or NON line of site path was used, would suffice. If we want to use pictures then of course we get into copyright issues. Since we all know what a laser looks like I think we can live without the pictures. If someone really wants more detail we can direct them to the article in CQ magazine. John K3PGP@juno.com ----- On Tue, 06 May 1997 13:55:14 -0500 "Art Allen, KY1K" writes: >If someone has a scanner with character recognition software, I'd >volunteer to get copyright permission and do the html setup as needed to get it >on the www. I have a scanner available, but it does not have char recognition >capability. > -==- >From owner-laser Tue May 6 12:21:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17265; Tue, 6 May 97 12:21:31 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Tue, 6 May 97 12:12:22 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705061912.AA17166@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Articles Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk John... and others... I was approached a couple months ago by CQVHF... They'd like an article or series of articles about what we've been doing. Would any/all of you be intrested in contributing to this? I figured the following areas would be good: 1) safety 2) RX - Solidstate 3) RX - PMT/APD 4) Modulation - mcw vs FM vs ??? (maybe this is 3?) 5) TX - HeNe modulators 6) TX - solidstate 7) lenses and mirrors 8) pointing and aiming systems 9) propagation scatter, direct - losses etc 10) future ranging satellite EME 11) records more? Jim WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi >From owner-laser Tue May 6 18:15:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22711; Tue, 6 May 97 18:15:29 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <336FEC13.1329@Prodigy.Net> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 19:42:27 -0700 From: kc5an Organization: Prodigy Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: laser reflector Subject: Re: [LASER] Re: kc5an mystery guess References: <9705060515.AA07657@berlioz.nsc.com> <9705060851.AA21173@omnigroup.com> <336FE881.64BF@Prodigy.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: kc5an Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk kc5an wrote: > > William Lewis wrote: > > > > I thought I'd add my own random thoughts to everyone else's... > > > > > 4. I "hear" what seems like an upward Doppler shift in the signals. > > > > Doppler shift from a moving modulated source shouldn't be large enough to be > > audible unless the source is moving extremely quickly. After all, we're > > talking light, not sound. > > > > Doppler shift might be audible if the noise generating source is actually > > moving relative to the "modulator". For example, imagine a reflective street > > sign on a highway, illuminated by floodlights. As cars pass, they vibrate the > > sign, and this vibration is impressed on the reflected light. > > > > Here's my own wacky theory: what about the aurora? John mentions he lives > > pretty far north. I live in the city and so rarely see the aurora, but I > > remember it does flicker a bit. I don't know if it flickers in the audible > > range or what it might sound like or even whether auroras give off much light > > in the near-IR. But an auroral discharge might be "audible" to John's setup > > even when there isn't any visible aurora. > > > > The easy way to test this, I suppose, would be to wait for an aurora, and > > then check whether it sounds similar to the Mystery Signal... > > > > Wim Lewis / wiml@omnigroup.comWell, I dunno. That's a good point. Obviously, "red shift" would be hard to > hear! > > I wonder, though, if light pulsed at an audio rate, having the pulses > demodulated as an audio signal, might not have an audible Doppler shift. I > really don't know... I guess when it comes to John's mystery signal the old > saying is true: "Your guess is as good as mine!" > > 73 > John C > North Texas >From owner-laser Wed May 7 07:28:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29991; Wed, 7 May 97 07:28:48 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:20:32 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705071420.AA12480@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net, kc5an@prodigy.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Re: kc5an mystery guess X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk > > I really don't know... I guess when it comes to John's mystery signal the old > > saying is true: "Your guess is as good as mine!" Well, let's try some experiments. Everybody with PMT's or HIGH-gain detectors - go out and listen to the sky, and report back what you hear. (I MEANT to do that this morning before sunrise, and forgot...) BTW - what exactly is the environment (houses, businesses, etc) around the area where the mystery signal was recorded? Do you have an approximate Lat/lon we could stick into a mappin program to look at the area? rusty >From owner-laser Thu May 8 08:47:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15112; Thu, 8 May 97 08:47:28 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:41:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [LASER] Articles Message-Id: <19970508.114132.8854.3.K3PGP@juno.com> References: <9705061912.AA17166@berlioz.nsc.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-20,22-23,26-27,32-33,36-39,45-46,53-54,60-61, 64-67,70-73,75-114 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Jim: 1) safety 2) RX - Solidstate 3) RX - PMT/APD 4) Modulation - mcw vs FM vs ??? (maybe this is 3?) 5) TX - HeNe modulators 6) TX - solidstate 7) lenses and mirrors 8) pointing and aiming systems 9) propagation scatter, direct - losses etc 10) future ranging satellite EME 11) records *** 12) Subcarrier Techniques *** *** 13) Working with signals below the noise floor *** Since this is an introductory article it's probably best to limit this to one or two paragraphs. (If that's possible :-^) !!! I was planning on an article devoted exclusively to these topics, but that is sometime down the road. Before writing a full article I want to conduct some actual on the air experiments this summer. I'm not after any world records, (at least not at this point :-^), I just want to prove that it works and how well. At best I MIGHT be able to prove the feasibility of using tropo scatter for laser contacts by using weak signal DSP and FFT techniques to allow recovery of the extremely weak signals. CQVHF may not be the place for my full article since it could get rather technical. (???) However, a brief mention of the work being done would seem appropriate in any article. ----- I think a couple of paragraphs also need to be devoted to use of subcarriers and modes such as SSB & BPSK. As far as I can determine there was no work being done with SSB / BPSK (and perhaps some other modes as well) before I came up with the idea of how to do this with lasers. Using subcarrier techniques it's even possible to transmit several different modes and/or data streams simultaneously! Based on the work that I've done to date, it's now possible to transmit ANY mode via laser. So far the best weak signal mode appears to be BPSK where I am able to get 100 % copy on signals that are at least 20 to 30 dB below the noise floor and can't be copied via any other mode. I'm pretty good at digging weak CW signals out of the noise after many years experience with EME, but I can NOT even hear these signals let alone copy them !!! Detecting a weak signal and conveying intelligence are two entirely different things. It's quite simple to use DSP and FFT techniques to detect a laser signal that is square wave modulated with an 800 Hz tone that is at least -45 dB below the noise floor. However, at these signals levels it's pretty hard to get any kind of data rate because of the extremely long integration times required. Once the signal gets to -30 dB or so below the noise floor it's possible to get 100 % copy on normal ASCII text by using slow data rates and using the same integration techniques to pull the signal out of the noise. OOOOPPPpppppsssss !!! There I go. Once you get me started I don't know when to shut up! I better get back to the soldering iron before the day is gone! ...... Again !!! ----- Keep me in mind for a SHORT description of what's being done along these lines and what might be possible. John K3PGP@juno.com ----- On Tue, 6 May 97 12:12:22 PDT jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) writes: > >John... and others... >I was approached a couple months ago by CQVHF... They'd like an >article or series of articles about what we've been doing. > >Would any/all of you be intrested in contributing to this? > >I figured the following areas would be good: > >1) safety >2) RX - Solidstate >3) RX - PMT/APD >4) Modulation - mcw vs FM vs ??? (maybe this is 3?) >5) TX - HeNe modulators >6) TX - solidstate >7) lenses and mirrors >8) pointing and aiming systems >9) propagation > scatter, direct - losses etc >10) future > ranging > satellite > EME >11) records > >more? > >Jim >WB9AJZ/6 >CM87xi > >From owner-laser Thu May 8 09:09:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15748; Thu, 8 May 97 09:09:42 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:04:31 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705081604.AA22872@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Mystery sound guess, random thoughts, and requests., Cc: music@san-jose.ate.slb.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Well, before listening to the sound, i was going to guess it was an optical lan. Or, possibly, after 'hearing' the discussion on the list, a lidar speed gun. Now that I've heard it, I want to see a time-vs-spectrum plot of it - can anybody do that? And my comment is - it sure sounds to ME like insect buzzing! Also, it was said that the sounds appeared from the sky. I asked a while back for all of us to try a listen-only (originally I asked all with high- gain receivers. I think I want to ask EVERYONE to try it). Has anyone tried yet? I'm planning to (overslept this morning - past daylight when I got out of bed...) - is anyone else going to? What has been done to try to narrow down the direction of the sounds? Can you move to a higher location and 'look/listen' from there? Have you recorded the exact times of presence/absence of signal? Is there ANYTHING at all related in time with that signal? Could someone go to a dark road at night and listen to the sounds remote headlights make? (I've noticed, years ago, that far distant headlights make a really interesting pattern, almost like a moire pattern, on a screen (or dirty windsheild ;-), and was wondering what that would sound like to the same detector that picked up the mystery sound) (Doug - I don't suppose you've got your PMT there in CA?) as the robot once said "Need input!" ;-) rusty >From owner-laser Thu May 8 10:40:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18251; Thu, 8 May 97 10:40:25 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Thu, 8 May 97 10:35:01 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705081735.AA18052@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] sky survey - 5/7 Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Well, I went out after dark last night and spent about 45 minutes exploring the sky with my binoculars, with my little PMT attached to one side (8x56mm binos). General light noise was noticed as the angle from the ground was decreased from 90 (straight up) towards the horizon. No buzzing detected. Did copy red and white strobes from aircraft, well into the light-haze, beyond what I could see with my unaided eye, and just detectable thru the bino's. All stars in the dipper and planets were detectable as "swishes" when moved thru the field of view. We need more clues where to listen for the "insects"! Jim WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi PS: I got a catalog from Orion Telescopes. They sell lots of parts for Dobsian telescopes, including "sonotubes" that are painted and coated, mirrors up to 16". >From owner-laser Thu May 8 18:58:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01523; Thu, 8 May 97 18:58:15 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:58:54 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Mystery Signal ! Message-Id: <19970508.215857.13702.0.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,9-10,14-17,20-21,28-29,34-35,41-42,47-52, 54-63,69-70,73-74,77-78,81-82,87-88,91-96,99-100,104-105, 109-110,117-118,122-123,125-128,134-135,139-146,148-151,153-159, 161,163-165,167,169-185,187,189,191-201,203,205-206,208-212,214, 216-217,219,221,223-225,227-231,233,235,237,239,241-243,245-260,262-282 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk To ALL: I want to thank everyone that took the time to download MYSTERY1.ZIP and offer their comments. Although I can't offer 100% proof of the source as of yet, I've been fairly certain of it's source for quite some time. I won't consider the case closed though until I'm able to actually make visual contact with the source while it is in operation and I have a portable laser receiver in hand to compare the sound. I do have say that the signals do sound a LOT like insects and in particular a swarm of bees! However, we just had another frost this week and had several nights at or around 32 F. There isn't much flying around here yet other than birds and commercial aircraft! What I believe all of us are listening to is laser police radars! The Pennsylvania Sate Police recently started using these along the Pa. Turnpike and other major interstate highways. As the 10 Ghz systems fail they are being replaced with the newer laser technology. I have tried going to the roof of my house where I have an unobstructed shot to the horizon in many directions of 50 miles of more. At no time was I able to detect these signals near the horizon. The source appears to come from well up in the sky. However, after taking a look at where these signals appear to be coming from and taking note of where the Pa. Turnpike is, I've noticed that the source always seems just about directly overhead from the turnpike! The actual signal path (to me) appears to be from the laser to the windshield or back window of the vehicle where some of it is then reflected almost straight up! (Of course this depends on the angle of the glass and where the transmitter is.) This is then backscattered from the atmosphere. The transmitter, as near as I can tell, is keyed on and off at a constant frequency and uses the doppler shift of the returned signal to measure speed. A vehicle moving toward the laser would cause the pulses to be closer together, and a vehicle moving away would cause the pulses to be further apart. We would hear this a change in frequency. The radar would use this to determine the speed of the target. Because of the sporadic nature of these signals I haven't been able to hook the receiver up to a scope to see if it's a square wave or a narrow pulse. However, it sounds more like a very narrow high power pulse much the same as a conventional radio radar. The energy appears to be in the IR region. ----- What I'd like to know now is the following: What type of laser does the typical police laser radar use? (Is LIDAR the correct term?) Wavelength of emission? How much power? Type of modulation? ----- What amazes me is the strength of these signals and the fact that they are NON line of sight transmissions. To make it even more amazing, the laser isn't even pointed skyward. (Or at least it isn't supposed to be :-^) !!! What I appear to be hearing is the reflected energy bouncing off the vehicles. (This is where the doppler shift comes from.) This reflected energy is then backscattered from the atmosphere. (Assuming the transmitter could also be in motion, it's also possible for me to be hearing the transmit beam as it hits various hillsides, etc. and bounces all over the place. This would also have doppler shift on it.) Based on the strength of these reflected and scattered signals I'm starting to wonder just how much IR energy are we getting blasted in our eyes while we're driving down the highway ??? Now that I know these signals exist I have been watching for them. They vary from just detectable to quite strong. Strong enough to really mess up any kind of serious research with weak signal communications! Based on the tremendous signal strength variations I'm starting to think that the laser is in motion as well as the vehicles it is bouncing off of. I don't know a whole lot about the operating habits of the local police who are using laser radar systems but I assume that they can be used in motion as well as from a stationary vehicle. Do any of you have any friends that work for the police department that have enough technical knowledge to fill us in on any details of the equipment that is out there? Any web sites or magazine articles on laser radar systems? ----- This past Sunday I took my laser setup over to a friends place about 30 miles NW of here. We were setup in his garage with the door closed. He lives right along a major highway, but NOT the Pa. Turnpike. The receiver was running (using the solid state detector since it was daylight!) pointed at the closed garage door. The Tx laser was off as we were using a weak signal source to compare front ends. There were a couple of windows facing the highway. All of a sudden the laser receiver went nuts. There was the same signal I had been hearing at home, only this time it was even stronger! It didn't last long and disappeared just as suddenly as it appeared. It was heard a total of three times in a period of approx. an hour. Shortly after the first burst from the pulsed laser, several other types of signals were heard. These appeared to be tone modulated signals that sounded more like a square wave than a pulsed laser and were a LOT weaker. They also displayed some doppler (mostly upward) but the main difference (other than the sound) was that these signals lasted 10 to 15 seconds each. These signals appeared to be coming from the window facing the highway. Could these be those laser jammer transmitters that some people are using? They sounded much the same as the 800 Hz square wave laser signals that we're using only most of them were transmitting a higher pitch. By the way the highway at this location is NOT line of site but was just over the hill in the general direction the window was facing. ----- Based on what I've been hearing over the past week or so it might be interesting to point those optical front ends toward some of the major highways. During the daytime you will most likely have to use some type of solid state front end. During the night you might be able to detect signals scattered back from the atmosphere if you have enough sensitivity or live close enough to the source. While driving around here I've noticed that most speed traps seem to operate from mid afternoon to around 6 pm. There doesn't seem to be as much activity during the night but as my recording proves there is nighttime activity from time to time. Once again thanks to all that responded! John K3PGP@juno.com PS - If anyone still wants a time-vs-spectrum plot of the signal I can provide it. Also: Randy (W7HR), I want to know more about that powerful IR laser out at the local airport that is used to measure the cloud ceilings ! ----- Some comments received: ----- I have downloaded your recording and listened to it several times. Before I listened judging by your post I was going to suggest that you may be hearing a LIDAR some was operating. After listening however I think I know what the sounds are. What I suspect you are hearing is the effect the wing's of flying insects make as the pass into your field of view. 73's PaulC KB1RP ----- John, I downloaded your WAV file, and listened to it with a friend at work. We decided it was the sounds of reflected light off of insect wings flying thru your RX beam pattern. Very interesting! Jim WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi Sunnyvale. ----- My best guess is that this is a laser radar system. The different pitch bursts being the different speeds of the vehicles the laser is hitting. The louder ones seem to be lower pitched, which might be slower moving trucks. I have never "heard" or seen a laser radar system in operation but based on your description of the random times and condx this is my guess... 73 Dave Riley - KG8W dave@riley.net ----- I can't offer any comments regarding its source. But, I would look at the frequency components of the fluttering sound-is it absolutely constant in frequency? Also, we could rule out insect scatter IF we could verify that there was no 60/120 hz component in the received signal-and reflection would contain 60/120 hz frequency components. What does the FFT show when looking in the 60/120 hz range? I hope we can get to the bottom of this. Maybe the FEDS can help us out hi hi. GL...Art... KY1K ----- John, Just an idle speculation (bad Pun hunh?) I still occasionally follow Navy stuff, reliving my misspent youth!, and I have run across a couple of references to the navy using orbit-to-earth lasers as part of the TACMO ( Take Charge and Move Out) C3 system for coordinating our nuclear forces if the bad thing happens. I don't have the software, or the knowledge frankly, but would it be feasable to "Wash" the signal you have and see if any of the known digital systems "bite" on it? It may also be of benefit if we laser heads could build an audio library of light noise and signals (i.e. tower strobes, police LIDAR, tv remotes, LANS etc.) and have something to compare on "Mystery Signals." Nuthin better to do 73 Rob KB8TEJ ----- Here's my own wacky theory: what about the aurora? John mentions he lives pretty far north. I live in the city and so rarely see the aurora, but I remember it does flicker a bit. I don't know if it flickers in the audible range or what it might sound like or even whether auroras give off much light in the near-IR. But an auroral discharge might be "audible" to John's setup even when there isn't any visible aurora. The easy way to test this, I suppose, would be to wait for an aurora, and then check whether it sounds similar to the Mystery Signal... Wim Lewis / wiml@omnigroup.com ----- Well, before listening to the sound, i was going to guess it was an optical lan. Or, possibly, after 'hearing' the discussion on the list, a lidar speed gun. Now that I've heard it, I want to see a time-vs-spectrum plot of it - can anybody do that? And my comment is - it sure sounds to ME like insect buzzing! rusty ----- Hypothesis: Is it possible that the signals are reflected (modulated) IR from headlights of vehicles that are rapidly APPROACHING some reflective surface in your area? Regards, and many thanks for your help... John Cauley KC5AN Coppell, TX ----- John: We have a powerful IR laser out at our local airport that is used to measure the cloud ceilings. I don't know what one of these "sounds" like but maybe one of those (with some scattering, etc.) is responsible? de Randy, W7HR ----- -==- >From owner-laser Thu May 8 19:55:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02796; Thu, 8 May 97 19:55:46 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970508215023.009096c0@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: wgf@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 21:50:23 -0500 To: laser@qsl.net From: Will Flor Subject: Re: [LASER] Mystery Signal ! In-Reply-To: <19970508.215857.13702.0.K3PGP@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: Will Flor Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk At 09:58 PM 5/8/97 -0400, k3pgp wrote: > >What I believe all of us are listening to is laser police radars! > > >The transmitter, as near as I can tell, is keyed on and off at a constant >frequency and uses the doppler shift of the returned signal to measure >speed. A vehicle moving toward the laser would cause the pulses to be >closer together, and a vehicle moving away would cause the pulses to be >further apart. We would hear this a change in frequency. The radar >would use this to determine the speed of the target. > According to the local Sheriff's Office deputy who is their laser radar instructor, the ones used here (at least) use straight time- -distance calcs and are not doppler based. The laser sends out two short pulses when triggered and the difference in distance, as measured by the time taken for the signal to reflect, is divided by the time between pulses to get the speed. A radar like that doesn't seem likely to produce anything like what you're receiving, but of course there may be other types - this is the only one I've ever seen, much less used (yes, I have!) or spoken about with an instructor. The lasers in these units operate in the IR spectrum. 73 de KB9JTT >From owner-laser Thu May 8 20:22:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03347; Thu, 8 May 97 20:22:17 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <199705090317.UAA00108@f41.hotmail.com> X-Originating-Ip: [128.122.11.32] From: "Thao Vu" To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] laser surveillance Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 20:17:48 PDT Reply-To: "Thao Vu" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Can anyone please direct me to some information that may have been published in print or on a web site that discusses how to bounce a laser beam off a window and pick up the sounds that may be vibrating off of it. I believe there was an article in Radio Electronics in the early '90s, but I don't know the exact issue. thanks, T. Vu "Kc2asr" --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- >From owner-laser Thu May 8 20:49:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03848; Thu, 8 May 97 20:49:06 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:46:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [LASER] Mystery Signal ! Message-Id: <19970508.234634.3910.1.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-7,15-16,19-20,26-27,31-32,38-52,54-62 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Yes, I've been told by more than one source so far that SOME police laser radars use the time difference to calculate the speed. However, the doppler shift is still there whether the radar is using it or not. Maybe the term doppler as used in this sense isn't exactly the correct term. Two pulses closer together would have a higher pitch much the same as doppler shift and the pitch would vary with speed of the approaching target. I've verified this by setting up an IR laser using very narrow pulses along a state highway and listened to the returns. Approaching vehicles caused the returned pulses to be closer together and resulted in a higher sounding pitch. Sounded about the same as the mystery signal. I could tell the speed of the vehicle by either the pitch or measuring the time difference between pulses. However, using a sqarewave to modulate the laser made it just about impossible to hear any type of pitch shift at all. However, since I haven't had visual contact with the source of the mystery signal as of yet, I can't say for certain that what I'm hearing is indeed a police radar. I'm still open to ALL suggestions!!! Whatever the signals are, they seem to eminate from the major interstate highways but are NOT always present. I've also been doing some listening to the truckers on the CB and their observations of speed traps seem to agree with the times and direction when I hear these signals. ????? They also made some comments about the NEW laser radars in this area! Truckers with the older 10 Ghz detectors weren't getting any warnings! PS - Since your friend seems to know something about the particular type of radar being used down there, try to find out what type of laser they use, wavelength, power output, pulse length, repetition rate, etc. This might be helpful whether it's the same type as being used up here or not. The first police radars used up here (many years ago) were using Nd-Yag lasers !!! They were a HUGE box they had to set up on a hillside. They couldn't catch many speeders because the huge box was visible from a mile down the road! I often wondered about the safety of getting hit in the eyes with one of these things although I was told the Nd-Yag lasers were " relatively " low power and used a very short duty cycle. John K3PGP@juno.com On Thu, 08 May 1997 21:50:23 -0500 Will Flor writes: >At 09:58 PM 5/8/97 -0400, k3pgp wrote: > >According to the local Sheriff's Office deputy who is their laser >radar instructor, the ones used here (at least) use straight time- >-distance calcs and are not doppler based. The laser sends out two >short pulses when triggered and the difference in distance, as >measured by the time taken for the signal to reflect, is divided by >the time between pulses to get the speed. A radar like that doesn't >seem likely to produce anything like what you're receiving, but of course >there may be other types - this is the only one I've ever seen, much >less used (yes, I have!) or spoken about with an instructor. The >lasers in these units operate in the IR spectrum. > >73 de KB9JTT > > > >From owner-laser Thu May 8 20:39:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11612; Wed, 7 May 97 17:52:56 PDT Date: Wed, 7 May 97 17:52:56 PDT From: owner-laser Message-Id: <9705080052.AA11612@berlioz.nsc.com> >From owner-laser Thu May 8 21:39:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11678; Wed, 7 May 97 17:56:33 PDT Date: Wed, 7 May 97 17:56:33 PDT From: owner-laser Message-Id: <9705080056.AA11678@berlioz.nsc.com> >From owner-laser Thu May 8 22:44:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05923; Thu, 8 May 97 22:44:07 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:47:57 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705080047.AA18217@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Articles X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From music@Tempe.ate.slb.com Wed May 7 17:46 MST 1997 X-Sender: music@tempe.ate.slb.com Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 17:44:45 -0700 To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) From: Doug Music Subject: Re: [LASER] Articles Mime-Version: 1.0 >John... and others... >I was approached a couple months ago by CQVHF... They'd like an >article or series of articles about what we've been doing. > >Would any/all of you be intrested in contributing to this? > I'd be willing to contribute, even though Rusty and I have only shot a mile 2-way and about 20 1-way. -Doug ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Thu May 8 23:43:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07031; Thu, 8 May 97 23:43:52 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <3371407C.4B5E@midstate.tds.net> Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 19:54:52 -0700 From: Michael Berg Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Beginnings... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: Michael Berg Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Introduction to the Laser reflector. Been experimenting with some crude optical communications projects here lately and seem to have caught the bug... Started out using IR LED's and a phototransistor detector circuit, but was disappointed at the short range. About that time I found a $25 deal on laser pointers which was cheap even to a starving student. After boning up on the critical nature of the care and feeding of the LD, I began using it in place of the IR LED. I was amazed and encouraged by the improvement, to say the least. For a transmitter I'm using a LM317 configured for constant current which provides the 50 mA needed to operate the LD. To modulate, I shunt some of the current to ground from a point between the regulator and the LD with a NPN transistor. This transistor turns off and on with the incoming data biasing the base. It's all still in the breadboard stage with variable resistors that adjust the total current and depth of modulation. Presently, I-max is 50 mA and I-min is 45 mA which is conservative I believe. The receiver is a Radio Shack variety phototransistor capacitively coupled to a TL082 op amp configured for single supply. The first stage is biased to 1/2 Vcc and has a gain of 20. The 2nd stage is a comparitor set at 1/2 Vcc and output is RXD. At a distance of 35' I'm able to see clean, on frequency square waves on the scope up to 200 Khz. As I move the receiver closer to the transmitter this rate climbs to over 300 khz at 2' apart. I haven't tried real data yet, but hope it will flow as well. I think input from this laser reflector will be a big help and hopefully save a lot of headaches. I'm glad to see other amateurs involved and hope the spirit of Elmering is in abundance, as I'll need it :) 73 Mike N0QBH -- >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~< >From owner-laser Fri May 9 03:52:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13892; Fri, 9 May 97 03:52:17 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970509095045.49f7f904@personal.eunet.fi> X-Sender: oh2aue@personal.eunet.fi X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 13:50:45 +0400 To: laser@qsl.net From: Michael Fletcher Subject: Re: [LASER] Mystery Signal ! Reply-To: Michael Fletcher Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Just wondering how the heard signals can possibly be laser Doppler-shifted signals. A He-Ne laser ( merely an example ) has a wavelength of 632 nm. At the normal velocities of vehicles the Doppler frequency should be somewhere way up in the MHz range - definately not audible ! If the velocity IS measured via Doppler shift, then the only feasable solution would be to use the transmitting laser as an LO for the detection too - being the only cheap way of coherently detecting the doppler shift - lasers are really noisy in real life - at least compared to our crystal controlled radios. And having the sidebands from moding in the laser must prohibit lasers being used as Doppler radars anyway ? Let alone the RF proseccing needed at IF to calculate the speed of the vehicle ? I imagine vehicular radar to simply have a pulsed laser and the emitted and reflected pulses are timed against each other. Btw, how much synchronous FM is there on the laser when it is AM modulated by the subcarrier systems ? The best optical spectrum analyser I know of has about 1 nm resolution ( thats 1 GHz !!! ). Michael _\\///_ _ _ _ (' O O ') (_()_()_) I.O.O.F. *------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------* * Michael Fletcher OH2AUE: 50 MHz * * Vanhaistentie 4 C 43 144 MHz * * FIN-00420 Helsinki 432 MHz * * 1296 MHz * * Phone/Fax + 358 9 566 62 63 home 2.304 GHz * * Cellular + 358 50 5505 293 3.400 GHz * * Phone + 358 9 5259 1890 work 5.760 GHz * * http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/oh2aue/ 10.368 GHz * * 24.092 GHz * * Life is above 1 GHz; 474 THz * * >99.9 % of the ham bands are there..... * *--------------------------------------------------* >From owner-laser Fri May 9 08:36:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19848; Fri, 9 May 97 08:36:22 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:32:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [LASER] Mystery Signal ! Message-Id: <19970509.113204.9470.12.K3PGP@juno.com> References: <2.2.16.19970509095045.49f7f904@personal.eunet.fi> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,11-12,15-21,23-30,32-76 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Michael: You are absolutely correct! However, I am NOT talking about detecting doppler shift of the carrier! In this case the laser is turned on and off with a series of short repetitive pulses. These pulses are then directed at a moving target. If the target is moving toward the observer the pulse repetition rate will appear to be higher since the pulses will be squeezed together. A target moving away from the observer would spread the pulses out making the received repetition rate appear lower. I think the term doppler is kind of misleading in this context since it usually applies to the shift associated with the carrier. I can understand the confusion! I hope this helps... John K3PGP@juno.com PS - Tell us about laser activity in OH2 land !!! Ham radio or otherwise. I assume that you listened to the recording of the mystery signal at: ftp://qsl.net/pub/k3pgp/mystery1.zip ----- On Fri, 09 May 1997 13:50:45 +0400 Michael Fletcher writes: >Just wondering how the heard signals can possibly be laser >Doppler-shifted signals. A He-Ne laser ( merely an example ) >has a wavelength of 632 nm. At the normal velocities of >vehicles the Doppler frequency should be somewhere way up in >the MHz range - definately not audible ! > >If the velocity IS measured via Doppler shift, then the only >feasable solution would be to use the transmitting laser as an >LO for the detection too - being the only cheap way of coherently >detecting the doppler shift - lasers are really noisy in real >life - at least compared to our crystal controlled radios. >And having the sidebands from moding in the laser must prohibit >lasers being used as Doppler radars anyway ? Let alone the RF >proseccing needed at IF to calculate the speed of the vehicle ? > >I imagine vehicular radar to simply have a pulsed laser and >the emitted and reflected pulses are timed against each other. > >Btw, how much synchronous FM is there on the laser when it is AM >modulated by the subcarrier systems ? The best optical spectrum >analyser I know of has about 1 nm resolution ( thats 1 GHz !!! ). > >Michael > > _\\///_ _ _ _ > (' O O ') (_()_()_) I.O.O.F. > *------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------* > * Michael Fletcher OH2AUE: 50 MHz * > * Vanhaistentie 4 C 43 144 MHz * > * FIN-00420 Helsinki 432 MHz * > * 1296 MHz * > * Phone/Fax + 358 9 566 62 63 home 2.304 GHz * > * Cellular + 358 50 5505 293 3.400 GHz * > * Phone + 358 9 5259 1890 work 5.760 GHz * > * http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/oh2aue/ 10.368 GHz * > * 24.092 GHz * > * Life is above 1 GHz; 474 THz * > * >99.9 % of the ham bands are there..... * > *--------------------------------------------------* > > > -==- >From owner-laser Fri May 9 09:20:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21939; Fri, 9 May 97 09:20:08 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:17:17 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Spectral Plot of Mystery Signal vs Time Message-Id: <19970509.121720.9470.13.K3PGP@juno.com> References: <9705091447.AA29408@fmsserv99.azfms.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-15,17-23 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 9 May 1997 07:47:57 -0700 c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) writes: >> >> PS - If anyone still wants a time-vs-spectrum plot of the signal I >> can provide it. K3PGP@juno.com >> > >I'd like to see it... > >rusty OK I placed a Plot of Spectrum vs Time of Mystery1.wav at: ftp://qsl.net/pub/k3pgp/specplot.zip It's approx. 29 k. I got the smallest file size by using going to a .BMP file and zipping it. If you need a different format, let me know. John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Fri May 9 14:05:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04318; Fri, 9 May 97 14:05:36 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 13:59:59 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705092059.AA00832@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: k3pgp@juno.com Subject: Re: [LASER] Spectral Plot of Mystery Signal vs Time Cc: laser@qsl.net, music@san-jose.ate.slb.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk > > OK > > I placed a Plot of Spectrum vs Time of Mystery1.wav at: > > ftp://qsl.net/pub/k3pgp/specplot.zip > > It's approx. 29 k. I got the smallest file size by using going to a .BMP > file and zipping it. If you need a different format, let me know. > you didn't need to go to all that trouble for ME, I'm on a T1 line to the internet. But I suppose the rest of the folks appreciate it. BTW - the spelling is ACTUALLY: ftp://qsl.net/pub/k3pgp/SpecPlot.zip (case matters. ;-) rusty >From owner-laser Fri May 9 14:50:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06265; Fri, 9 May 97 14:50:18 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f From: kent.e.britain@bangate1.TEK.COM Date: Fri, 9 May 97 12:44:32 CDT Message-Id: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: Subject: [LASER] Laser Radars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: kent.e.britain@bangate1.TEK.COM Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Greetings All: I worked with one of the LASER Radars a few years ago on a military program. We used an off the shelf commerical speed trap radar to save money. THEY DO NOT USE DOPPLER SHIFT!!!!!!! The unit we used sent out pulses at 6 KHz PRF. It ranged to the target. It waited 250 milliseconds. It ranged to the target. Speed was determined by the difference in distance. Many Laser Detectors for automobiles just look for pulsing at > 1000 Hz. We did have a Doppler Laser radar that was used in several experiments. It was not hand held!! You cannot use the Radar method of a circulator to seperate transmitted and rec signals. We used a Local Oscillator Laser that was injection locked to the transmitte Laser and used seperate optics. Very Very Very few Lasers put out a pure enough light source to be used in a doppler radar. As an example, we pointed it at a M-60 tank and could see the engine running. Sidebands from the Allison V-12 vibration were produced 60 MHz away! Our first system used a CO2 Laser. Turbulance in the gas was enough to make it useless. On your Mystery Signal. My first though is the PMT Power Supply. Try changing the Capaictance in the Power Supply and see if the tone changes. Kent Britain WA5VJB >From owner-laser Fri May 9 16:02:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09464; Fri, 9 May 97 16:02:09 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:03:51 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Doppler Message-Id: <19970509.190354.9622.0.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-7,13-23 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk To ALL: Please excuse the use of the term "DOPPLER" in my discusion of laser radar systems. I agree. It's pretty hard to hear the doppler on a carrier at 474 Thz! However, that's not what I was refering to. What I was refering to by the term "DOPPLER" was the compression of the returned pulses making them appear to be closer together on an approaching target with the resulting pitch sounding higher. On a receeding target they would appear to be farther appart making the audible pitch lower in frequency. This is what I was refering to when I used the term "DOPPLER". I can understand the confusion!!! I beginning to wish I never heard this signal :-^) !!! John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Fri May 9 15:58:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09336; Fri, 9 May 97 15:58:53 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 18:54:58 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Laser Radars ? - The plot thickens !!! Message-Id: <19970509.185500.8902.2.K3PGP@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-13,15-16,20-21,26-27,33-34,36-37,40-41,44-45,47-65 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Kent: Covering the lens makes the signal go away!!! So does aiming the system in a different direction. The PMT can run for hours with the lens covered and not make any sound other than a hiss. If it were the power supply this would not be the case. Have you listened to MYSTERY1.ZIP ??? It's far from a steady tone! It's at: ftp://qsl.net/pub/k3pgp/mystery1.zip There are now two other people in the area hearing these signals! One approx five miles NE from me and the other approx. 30 miles NW. Both are using solid state detectors. The signals they are hearing are not as strong as what I get with the PMT but they are detectable. Since they are using solid state detectors they can run in the daytime. They report hearing the signal several times between 3 pm and 6 pm local time. As of last night I now have a pin diode setup looking out the dining room window. I heard about a dozen bursts on it around 2 pm this afternoon over a time period of approx. 15 minutes. It's been quiet since. It sounded much the same as the mystery signal complete with doppler but much weaker than anything heard on the PMT. Now that all of us are putting some time into this, it's becoming very obvious that we are hearing more than one type of radar. (Heck, at this point I don't even know if it is a radar!!!) Some seem to sound like the type of police radar that several people have described here. It's only heard for a short burst then it's gone. Then there's this other signal which I guess is still a MYSTERY! I thought I had this all figured out. Maybe so, maybe not. Like any good observer I'm open to any and all suggestions. I do know one thing for sure though. This signal is NOT being generated in my equipment. At this point I wish it were. It would be so much easier to replace the filter capacitors :-^) ! By the way, our local police department doesn't have any type of radar, RF or laser. The only thing they have is the type where they tape down two strips across the highway. I think they call it VASCAR. The only departments around here that I know of that have laser setups are the state troopers, mostly on the turnpike. John K3PGP@juno.com On Fri, 9 May 97 12:44:32 CDT kent.e.britain@bangate1.TEK.COM writes: >On your Mystery Signal. >My first though is the PMT Power Supply. >Try changing the Capaictance in the Power Supply and >see if the tone changes. > >Kent Britain WA5VJB > -==- >From owner-laser Fri May 9 16:50:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11839; Fri, 9 May 97 16:50:31 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Fri, 9 May 97 16:47:36 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705092347.AA11714@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] laser bees Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk John, I listened again last night.. no "insects" heard. Radar and Laser Radar are not much used here in California. So .. Eventhough I am "surrounded" by freeways... I may never hear it. Jim >From owner-laser Fri May 9 16:50:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11831; Fri, 9 May 97 16:50:28 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 19:45:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "C. W. Wright" X-Sender: wwright@wayne.home.net To: kent.e.britain@bangate1.TEK.COM Cc: laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Laser Radars In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: "C. W. Wright" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk > Speed was determined by the difference in distance. Do you know what electronics technique they used to measure the time difference between the transmit and return pulses? Also wondering what the pulse width was and the rise/fall times for the transmited pulse. I am familar with various time-interval measuring devices, but nothing that would be cheap and small and still provide nanosecond resolution. :-) Wayne >From owner-laser Fri May 9 18:01:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14692; Fri, 9 May 97 18:01:30 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:56:49 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705100056.AA01632@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] the mystery signal, again... Cc: music@san-jose.ate.slb.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk To the group: > On your Mystery Signal. > My first though is the PMT Power Supply. > Try changing the Capaictance in the Power Supply and > see if the tone changes. > That's close to something Doug suggested - these PMT's have gain like there's no tomorrow (picking up light reflected off a windshield into the sky and then scattered from there??? yikes!), they easily oscillate... But, to MY thunks: you know, looking at that spectrum plot I could easily convince myself that the cause, is indeed, a pulsed light source. Square waves, and all that... I'm leaning toward the police lidar (or whatever we want to call it) Now, if you could sit there and correlate autos with blips... rusty >From owner-laser Sat May 10 08:21:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10793; Sat, 10 May 97 08:21:04 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <3374AC72.20BC@Prodigy.Net> Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:12:18 -0700 From: kc5an Organization: Prodigy Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: laser reflector Subject: [LASER] Alt/Az adjustment for tripod Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: kc5an Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk I bought a "slow motion control" for standard camera tripod mounts from a company called ANDORAMA (see ad in back of SKY & Telescope Magazine). The brand name is Pro-Optic, and the price is $29.95 It attaches to a tripod with a 1/4 by 20 thread, and then provides the same type of mount for equipment attachment. There are knobs for horizontal & vertical adjustments. There are approximately 16 turns on the horizontal adjustment. At 25 ft., one turn moved the laser spot about 9 inches. There are approximately 14 turns on the vertical adjustment. At 25 ft., one turn moved the laser spot about 11 inches. On both axes, there is about 3/4 turn of "slop" when you reverse directions. I plan to use this one for the transmitter in the next unit I put together-- which will be a great improvement over my first one, thanks to what I have learned from you folks. John C north Texas >From owner-laser Sat May 10 10:43:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15694; Sat, 10 May 97 10:43:11 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Sat, 10 May 97 10:35:50 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705101735.AA15478@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: re:[LASER] Alt/Az adjustment for tripod Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk John C and the net, A good way to work this is to build a X-Y adjustement with 4-40 screws as adjustment and a 2 foot long piece of angle aluminum mounted on a 2'+ piece of wood. A movement of 1 turn of the screw gets you < 1mR of movement. This can be easily mounted on a tripod for gross adjustment by drilling a 1/4" hole in the wood base. To accomplish the X-Y adjustment there are multiple solutions. The easiest but hardest to find is to look for surplus "probe positioners" used in micro probing of semiconductors. They allow for very fine movememnts. I also built and X-Y positioner from 3 2' pieces of angle aluminum with hinges on X and Y at one end, and a fixed hole screw for X adjustment on Y, and a sliding setup for X. (Imagination required!) Another surplus approach is to find a Newport or other brand mirror mount with a first surface mirror, and just bounce off of it, using the thumb screws for adjustment. They allow sufficient resolution to move the beam in X and Y. The key here is that the positioning system be < the beam dispersion. 73 Jim WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi >From owner-laser Sun May 11 10:14:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02424; Sun, 11 May 97 10:14:17 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 13:11:53 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Standard Audio Spectrum Plot of Mystery Signal Message-Id: <19970511.131240.15086.0.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,6-9,12-225 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk For those of you that requested it, here's a standard audio spectrum analyzer display of ONE of the laser radar returns in MYSTERY1.WAV. Please note that my PMT setup is high pass filtered with most components below 300 Hz or so pretty well attenuated in an effort to reduce hum from man made light. Even with this filtering harmonics of the signal from man made light are visible at 120, 180 and 240 hz. The high end is low pass filtered to eliminate hiss and enhance SNR. This results in a broad peak in the reponse centered on 800 Hz. This broad band peak is evident in both the laser radar signal and the noise floor. PS - This file is also available at: ftp://qsl.net/pub/k3pgp/spctrum1.zip John K3PGP@juno.com _=_ _=_ Part 001 of 001 of file Spctrum1.zip _=_ begin 666 Spctrum1.zip M4$L#!!0``@`(`"YGJR+O.(&6VR$``"TB```,````?[OOLL]_Y^]WF><\^YY[GG&IL:8<]X:(':@3W@ M/P/""D``R-&`LK)"H:S+BXE@H-T)9&0!,D&AE.%1;&XI%H]%8+$)9&PX`UE@,$HG!(G!P M965E<1P.::@NK8PS448:FB`!P!N+Q4I;F$BK6P!`F(FZ"0Z',\'BX'@T!H[' MP]$`AFB"M;8^4FU#$Q,3/`Z-QZ-Q>#0<3\3#B0"096)M@L'AK:VMX20TG$3$ MP$DD.)$$1SLZ.KH[_\>Y.[H[>CN[N[OCCE)P1!(.3<*C220TGH3&D=#N?L[. 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M6SI6J'P*U9(&J/<3MI59ZM@$CEE7!1+$;\_N.%Z%+E2#IJP\6<*B)0%8=*"[ M_F7Z'SZNEZT@SK18#^2V\2R@W!(8LA:5Y#'OH9O(&]\D+@I>&;N#*VP)9=4' M&L);%8JR@"@L^/>N0*X43\'@`R5`6&9%Z&=7F\R"*VB;6YNGY M]YE)RY!?QKVYXSBH@Z\B$)*>S!(G`&2>B0DDL["S8-M4DT8^C,5QJTB)/^$L MB@:T76WMRQ`7?;-8T"FI7/-:`N`*QJ]'64]6W9T_ MQ\;#UJ&PM,H).2E+T)<7M?*/OG]EE!_PTN2FN$HI#!GB[K1I#QR*)P*\I4-) MG]^S7E88*1.]HOBHDW!_XP:LYKCM6MD$:X>_1K$)!I=*2)/P`?EW1Q/![JR< M.?4H9=IP0C"I6KW/ M/&4G^WS.'`07<;RSM-J:RZ&B/$/M1<[F#\`AEX7B`Y2^NGY#*IQ,99SZV"MP MXO=.GQ1,T/2TDKB0$-QF[FXU/Q?__<)PZX:VWQ%/5)=T;A![_KRU&.E3@Q&. M"_S]5`53U<<;3Y&NOEZM%,[B89^Y"'I?H3S5C90(A0"LE6$0R,F0$%=%S,W8 MGW;2?*?(EO4?`R[I3VHL.YR$P*NN?GD6UBJEGL4M/5[F5>J@/).?YE=E,F_= M7=/$+^_C5CVSI?A&1(%UP#R3=ZTR"+>2;GO9R%_,:4W4.&QD8&HK$,:T]C+- M`2:$@M;NT-".JJ_VM=)5+9HO-AP'7S&+GX'QA!M<%4T)=[;/'4%PI3M5Z(_- MB)J;/%);.ZZO5Y%A='8FX_@Z5^E/([]AV!(Y7M\A1>UW6)R+7$P!MB>>H[,7 MD<-)RKQ4+=:;V:J<=W*MT;?9=@UA=!7(36%YJ!"Z>.*G6W;`^ MA/]!(.(`*2['"YK3F0_#?6+X?B(:C#1^0&"XC2()/XY?;P4`V940F[(]?R0E MI:\_JNKMB#GN4DC\_:H9OZJE4O_NJN\1[W^YFE86.P9TU*G$,E)6ZY/J]!S" M5>3L09-IM>N4T_6/=VZ$?IC>Q[X*%,IFC?S`=!`.;M^4F/!:MI7R;L]/#:Q] M[/O0XEFOZO(`2/I;,2"U9E:+&EVI]T2&5'Z%6T8ORYR.?V,(4$II M$[Q[[P.PL]SIE_`.C)Q1YY%+2/1NQ.-/\F`XS%=,-925-U+!2R.GG?0U->++ MK@3PLC1(,K<_M.]:MU[]J\X9=T^TN_[Z M4'LS1>.S&'7,=6_\!6G`B$F8NJX3I"((T:VO>?I](?S,;$#?X996DUNDK%22 M[8R:ERN1I570`!83+"/R>BUB6[C<68JBK^<9IJ6MM49@4BY#!RZ,%L1B_OXX M4$=5]ZVQ/&7MBD@1+1Y M,;$\^F1(!N*B)HY="N[[%NF^T^!4P7Y%''?JAX1#I]=K8SAA>SYY M`VZ%8H!W&KUHSOT+G.=R'#`.DD[/+1+F;N,7>9HHR>)O(WSMY?V"AH:XG5PG M^O%237#1>RV)TG,"E9A%S\:\]M;Q-LQT@+X\M\%/P$`%8P"8\GZ7-%!S-ECQ M-.`_DX(Y'6%P-B(%BW^CF=?>!8$`6O\#4$L!`C(+%``"``@`+F>K(N\X@9;; M(0``+2(```P````````````@`+:!`````'-P8W1R=6TQ+F=I9E!+!08````` .`0`!`#H````%(@`````` ` end >From owner-laser Sun May 11 14:03:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10106; Sun, 11 May 97 14:03:53 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Sun, 11 May 97 13:56:30 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705112056.AA09857@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Alt/Az adjustment for tripod Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk I haven't tried this anyone else? Jim ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From mikeberg@midstate.tds.net Sun May 11 08:06:04 1997 Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 10:01:00 -0700 From: Michael Berg Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Jim Moss Subject: Re: [LASER] Alt/Az adjustment for tripod Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 501 Has anyone tried making a differential screw type adjustment? It works kinda on the Chinese windlass principal by using two different thread pitches in the same direction on one shaft with each end of the shaft threaded into a nut matching it's pitch. As the shaft is turned, the non rotating nuts will move together or apart at the ratio of the screw's thread difference. 73 Mike -- >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~< ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Mon May 12 06:34:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14634; Mon, 12 May 97 06:34:10 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <9705121329.AA03538@is.ups.com> From: "Guy Hamblen" To: Subject: Fw: re:[LASER] Alt/Az adjustment for tripod Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 09:29:12 -0400 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: "Guy Hamblen" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk A recent Sky and Telescope magazine mailorder company advertisement featured the Pro-Optic Slow Motion Control device. Fitting a tripod with a 1/4-20 thread, it allows "you to make accurate slow motion adjustments in altitude and azimuth." I purchased one from Adorama (order: 800.723.6726) for 29.95 plus s/h. Initial impressions: a good starting mechanism for az-el adjustments...controls have backlash and are too granular but many improvements could be made to improve the resolution like convert to a 4-40 thread, minimize the backlash, and increase the lever arm between adjustment screws and mechanism axis. One could easily adapt it for stepper motor control also. It's a compact device and reasonably priced. As I progress with my experimentation and device modifications, I'll post progress status. 73. Guy, N7UN/2 (FN21) > Subject: re:[LASER] Alt/Az adjustment for tripod > To accomplish the X-Y adjustment there are multiple > solutions. The easiest but hardest to find is to look for > surplus "probe positioners" used in micro probing of > semiconductors. They allow for very fine movememnts. > >From owner-laser Mon May 12 19:32:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15783; Mon, 12 May 97 19:32:17 PDT Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 22:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970512214252.24c76f66@mail.snet.net> X-Sender: paulc@mail.snet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: laser@berlioz.nsc.com From: "Paul A. Cianciolo" Subject: http://www.burle.com/news.htm Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hey guys, check this out 73's PaulC KB1RP >From owner-laser Mon May 12 19:28:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15610; Mon, 12 May 97 19:28:27 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <33777517.5D91@mnsinc.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:52:55 -0700 From: Neil Spokes X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Guy Hamblen Cc: laser@qsl.net Subject: Cork for [LASER] Alt/Az adjustment for tripod References: <9705121329.AA03538@is.ups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: Neil Spokes Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk FWIW: For those into DIY, cork can act as a thread averager/backlash eliminator. The wonderful Rochester grating ruling engines had components with cork in them to eliminate backlash, if my recall is correct. Metal on metal gears may be more backlash prone than the more mundane cork version. Neil AB4YK. =================================== Guy Hamblen wrote: > > A recent Sky and Telescope magazine mailorder company advertisement > featured the Pro-Optic Slow Motion Control device. Fitting a tripod with a > 1/4-20 thread, it allows "you to make accurate slow motion adjustments in > altitude and azimuth." I purchased one from Adorama (order: 800.723.6726) > for 29.95 plus s/h. Initial impressions: a good starting mechanism for > az-el adjustments...controls have backlash and are too granular but many > improvements could be made to improve the resolution like convert to a 4-40 > thread, minimize the backlash, and increase the lever arm between > adjustment screws and mechanism axis. One could easily adapt it for > stepper motor control also. It's a compact device and reasonably priced. > > As I progress with my experimentation and device modifications, I'll post > progress status. > > 73. Guy, N7UN/2 (FN21) > > > Subject: re:[LASER] Alt/Az adjustment for tripod > > To accomplish the X-Y adjustment there are multiple > > solutions. The easiest but hardest to find is to look for > > surplus "probe positioners" used in micro probing of > > semiconductors. They allow for very fine movememnts. > > >From owner-laser Tue May 13 00:36:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28219; Tue, 13 May 97 00:36:27 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970513063455.34e75c98@personal.eunet.fi> X-Sender: oh2aue@personal.eunet.fi X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:34:55 +0400 To: laser@qsl.net From: Michael Fletcher Subject: Re: [LASER] Mystery Signal ! Reply-To: Michael Fletcher Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hi laser fans, >You are absolutely correct! > >However, I am NOT talking about detecting doppler shift of the carrier! > >In this case the laser is turned on and off with a series of short >repetitive pulses. These pulses are then directed at a moving target. >If the target is moving toward the observer the pulse repetition rate >will appear to be higher since the pulses will be squeezed together. Yup. Got the point there. This should work out fine. Yes, I certainly listened to the sound file and it does sound rather incredible. It actually means that some form of scatter communication is possible. Veeery interesting... I am very intrigued by the way you guys are superimposing subcarriers onto the diode laser carrier. I have been intending to try this myself, but I am in the process of changing ham shacks ( more space ), so I can't really do any serious prototyping. I have also been pretty preoccupied with the P3D satellite 10 GHz transmitter project AMSAT-OH has finalized. I have built a couple of 800 Hz keyed lasers and accompanying receivers using regular diode detectors. These also work quite well, but no long distances yet. I also attemped a two kilometer QSO with a HeNe laser, but did not have a reasonable detector at the time ( about four years ago ), but the light was BLINDING with a beam width of around 1 m at this distance ( no collimating lenses here ). Took some time pointing the things too... Need to try to find the Burr Brown devices somewhere here in Finland too, they sound preeetty sexy. Michael _\\///_ _ _ _ (' O O ') (_()_()_) I.O.O.F. *------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------* * Michael Fletcher OH2AUE: 50 MHz * * Vanhaistentie 4 C 43 144 MHz * * FIN-00420 Helsinki 432 MHz * * 1296 MHz * * Phone/Fax + 358 9 566 62 63 home 2.304 GHz * * Cellular + 358 50 5505 293 3.400 GHz * * Phone + 358 9 5259 1890 work 5.760 GHz * * http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/oh2aue/ 10.368 GHz * * 24.092 GHz * * Life is above 1 GHz; 474 THz * * >99.9 % of the ham bands are there..... * *--------------------------------------------------* >From owner-laser Tue May 13 16:27:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09713; Tue, 13 May 97 16:27:00 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <33790931.1937@Prodigy.Net> Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:37:05 -0700 From: kc5an Organization: Prodigy Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Guy Hamblen Cc: laser reflector Subject: [LASER] Re: Pro-Optic Slow Motion Control References: <9705131258.AA18130@is.ups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: kc5an Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Guy Hamblen wrote: > > Thanks for the reply....I'll share my "discoveries" with you via > email...then eventuallly summarize for the reflector. > > > > For the receiver, I have an OPT-210. I plan to mount it & associated > > circuitry separately, > > I also acquired some OPT-210's...but am looking for some 50Meg resistors > for the feedback circuit....I've located some at Newark Electronics but > with a $25 minimum....do you have a readily available supply for 4 or 6 > items? > Later, Guy.I'm starting to look for resistors, also. If I'm lucky, I'll give you a shout. For now, I am about to install, Windows 95, and if it goes like every other computer-mod I do at home, Ill be down from the net & everything else for a while. See you when i get back in operation! John kc5an north Texas >From owner-laser Fri May 16 10:11:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18341; Fri, 16 May 97 10:11:00 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Fri, 16 May 97 09:51:58 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705161651.AA17537@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Fry's sale Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Fry's Electronics (SF Bay Area) has a sale today on "laser pointers" for $19.99 only 1 per customer Will check it out at lunch. Jim WB9AJZ >From owner-laser Fri May 16 13:49:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26774; Fri, 16 May 97 13:49:02 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <337CB5A3.1861@televar.com> Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 20:29:39 +0100 From: Mark Tucker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] diode question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: Mark Tucker Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hello lasers... Does anyone have info on a diode (VTP 1012 8917) ?? I have used one as a detector and it seems to be a lot more sensitive than the solar cell that I started with. How does this compare to some of the other devices discussed recently ? Any h*e*l*p would be appreciated!!! 73 cul de Mark K7XW >From owner-laser Fri May 16 17:11:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05555; Fri, 16 May 97 17:11:50 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:05:54 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705170005.AA16990@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] RE: HE-NE direct modulation? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Did I forward this already? If not, somebody please email me direct and I'll send the other in this batch... rusty ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From music@Tempe.ate.slb.com Sun Apr 6 19:37 MST 1997 X-Sender: music@tempe.ate.slb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 19:35:10 -0700 To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) From: Doug Music Subject: RE: HE-NE direct modulation? The harmonics are related to the speed of the edge unless the frequency nears the band pass (to ground) and all that. The reason the ballast resistor is there is to stop tube oscillations as well as limit the instantanious current. One VERY cheap way to modulate a HeNe at 100% but sloppy duty cycle is to put a SMALL but high voltage cap directly across the tube. The tube will set up relaxation oscillations and all that crud. Noisy, but what the heck, it's a signal. -Doug > >----- Begin Included Message ----- > >From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) > > >My guess is that we would have harmonics into the 5 or 10 mhz > >region-neatly spaced at the frequency of the switching frequency > >of the power supply. > > > >Does anyone have any idea of the magnitude of these losses > >resulting from the harmonics of the power supply switching frequency? > >GL..Art, KY1K. > >I too would like to know more about this! > ... > >PS - Let's hear from some of those people out there reading the mail! > > >John >K3PGP@juno.com > >----- End Included Message ----- ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Fri May 16 17:33:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06499; Fri, 16 May 97 17:33:21 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:28:06 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705170028.AA17045@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Re: cryo cooling of HE-NE? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hope I've not sent this yet: ----- Begin Included Message ----- From: Doug Music Subject: Re: cryo cooling of HE-NE? NeNe lasers are limited by the conversion efficiency from hole/pair population to coherence capable e- population. The coherence capability is due to a binding mechanism and gain at that site greater than unity. The poor ole HeNe (like most atomic ion lasers) is simply pathetic and any improvement on pathetic is still on the order of pathetic (in this case). Duuuude... Bummer. Now, molecular lasers are a whole lot better. (Orders of magnitude kind of better.) Anyone building a free electron laser? -Doug ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Sat May 17 07:49:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05107; Sat, 17 May 97 07:49:19 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970517104403.00725c94@raven.cybercomm.net> X-Sender: n2ckh@raven.cybercomm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:44:05 -0500 To: laser@qsl.net From: steve hajducek Subject: [LASER] Beta Testers for LOS+ Software Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: steve hajducek Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hello All, This message serves to announce to the Amateur community Sight It!(tm) the first and only known Geographical Information System designed specifically for Amateur Radio. At present Sight It! is in Alpha, and being tested by a few harder Amateur in a half dozen different states. Within one to two months the software will be in Beta, which is my reason for this message. I need two licensed Amateurs from each state to volunteer as beta (even Alpha) testers. The software is a high end application, it requires at a minimum a high end 486 computer, with at least 16MB RAM and SVGA graphics. Futhermore, the data supported requires that all Beta (and Alpha) testers have Internet Browser or FTP access to get Digital Elevation Model data sets from the US Geological Survey (USGS) and Digital Terrain Elevation Data from the National Image and Mapping Agency (NIMA). The application is a true 32 bit MS-Windows 95/Windows NT program, coded using the latest Visual C/C++ v5.0 tools and techniques. A preliminary beta tester application is available at my website: http://www.QTH.com/n2ckh.bytewise.org as is additional information and screen captures from the Alpha version of Sight It! The positions will be filled on a first come, meet all my requirments, first serve basis. All applicants will receive a return e-mail in due order informing them of their application status. Some of the features planned for Sight It! (with 80% already coded and working well) will include but are not limited to: The Display USGS DEM(s) for a chosen ROI in three modes, Topographic, Color or Shaded and in combinations of the three. Allow the user to configure the color bins for range and custom color, with all color bins created optionally saved as a recallable color bin separate from or tied to the DEM it was created with for later automatic or manually selected reuse. Use the mouse pointer (crosshairs) to position any coordinate on screen with real time display of the user selection of coordinate system. Display coordinates in Latitude/Longitude (Lat/Lon), Universal Transverse Mercatur (UTM), World Geographic Reference System (GeoRef), Maiden Head Grid Squares and the Military Grid Reference System (MGRS). Display Geomagnetic Delcination (Grid Declination) coordinates. Determine the Elevation at a given coordinate in either meters or feet. Perform Optical Line of Sight (LOS) calculations between any two geographical points within a DEM. Perform Radio Line of Sight (R.LOS) calculations between any two geographical points within a DEM. Perform Path Loss calculations between any two points within the loaded DEM. Determine Bearing, Distance and Elevation with or without Height Above Ground Level (HAGL) of an antenna system taking into account between any two points within the loaded DEM. Display bearing in either Degrees or Mils. Display distances in both Kilometers and Miles between any two points within a DEM.. Perform Height Above Average Terrain (HAAT) calculation for any point within the loaded DEM, displaying the 40 point 8 compass point pattern as an overlay to the DEM and the HAAT derived value. Optionally print an HAAT report for inclusion with repeater documentation. Determine the Distance to the Radio Horizon (DTRH) taking into account the user entered antenna height at that location while calculating HAAT. Determine the Distance to the Common Radio Horizon between to points, taking into consideration the user entered antenna height at both locations. Display a 360 degree fan of LOS or R.LOS, with a user selected radius distance, with or without HAGL taking into consideration for any point within a DEM. Use a Global Positioning Receiver (GPS) having a NMEA-183 port or standard RS-232C output attached to the host PCs RS-232C port for user selection as a point reference. Interface to Packet TNCs for geographical information to display on the DEM georeferenced for all stations heard, with callsign displayed on the DEM for all that fall within the coverage area of the DEM in use, a separate drop down list of all stations heard is also provided. The plan is to provide full APRS support. Interface to the Radio Amateur Callbook, Inc. CD-ROM Callbook to lookup amateurs by callsign for georefering within the DEM in use to the relative postal zone coordinates provided in the database. Display various overlay layers of georeference data, such as County Names and City Names within the DEM referenced to a user editable database that will allow the use to not only turn individual Cities that we provide On or Off, but will also allow the user to enter additional geographic locations with a Name and set of Coordinates. Display political boundaries such as County and State outlines referenced to the actual coordinates of the borders of said boundaries. Support user drawn annotation with Letters, Numbers, Lines, Circles, Rectangles and Polygons innuser selectable sizes, widths and colors. Also user selected Icons to respent buildings, antennas, towers, vehicles, etc. Print to any MS-Windows compatible Graphics Printer. Copy to the clip board the currently displayed DEM. Save imaged data to disks files formats which include: JPG, CMP, TIFF, MPT, BMP, PCX, PNG, TGA, EPS, RAS, WPG, PCT. /s/ Steve, N2CKH >From owner-laser Mon May 19 13:44:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18919; Mon, 19 May 97 13:44:25 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:49:38 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705191749.AA06921@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Re: grating? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From music@Tempe.ate.slb.com Mon May 19 10:48 MST 1997 From: music@Tempe.ate.slb.com (Doug Music) Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:48:31 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: grating? To: c1040@azfms.com Mime-Version: 1.0 > > > Anyway, in the sparse docs, they mention one of the optical components is > called a 'grating'. This grating is located on the output side of the > module. So, its laser diode, collimator, then grating. The grating has > similar dimensions to the collimator and is mounted about the same way. > > Anyway, what the heck is this optical component used for? Is it possible No time to speak of here so... The grating is used to select a VERY narrow band. A kind of bandpass filter. -Doug ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Mon May 19 15:26:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23986; Mon, 19 May 97 15:26:13 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 13:02:56 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705192002.AA19639@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Re: diodes in laser vs led mode? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From music@Tempe.ate.slb.com Mon May 19 10:53 MST 1997 From: music@Tempe.ate.slb.com (Doug Music) Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:53:05 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: diodes in laser vs led mode? To: c1040@azfms.com Mime-Version: 1.0 > > Hey, I posted a message earlier asking what the difference was between a > laser diode operated in led mode was? > > It wasn't very clear and some commented, but I didn't get the needed info... ... > Anyone have any practical experience here? > > Thanks, > > Art... > Changes in output from high LED mode to LASER mode: o The output brightness. (Detect w/ meter) o The output goes polarized. (Detect w/ polarizing filter & meter) o The output goes narrow band. (Detect w/ grating or prism) o The output goes coherent. (Detect w/ coherence dependent hologram or lens and white card looking for interference or lens and razor blade, etc.) -Doug Douglas E. Music Voice: (602) 345-3625 Email: music@san-jose.ate.slb.com Email: music@goodnet.com __o _`\<,_ _______(*)/_(*)__________ ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Mon May 19 15:54:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25939; Mon, 19 May 97 15:54:14 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Mon, 19 May 97 13:29:19 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705192029.AA18288@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Surplus PhotoDiodes Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk I've come across a cache of surplus photodiodes. They are EG&G UV215BQ's. They are enhance for UV and work 150-1100nM. The book says 0.15A/W at 250nM. I think they are higher at longer wavelengths, but don't have that info. 5mm2 area. Quartz glass covers. They are mounted in a machined aluminum housing, with 2 - 24K ohm resistors running thru the aluminum block (heat control), and include a thermocouple in the housing as well. There is a diffuser mounted in the block, but it is easily removed. The diodes are NOT easily removed from the block. They are epoxied and force fit in. I did get one out, so as to figure out what device it was. Had to break the diode can and quartz window to get it out. I have about 8 extra. Will sell to our net members for $5 plus shipping. (I'm not in the surplus business, although my room looks like it.) Jim WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi Sunnyvale, CA >From owner-laser Mon May 19 15:54:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25938; Mon, 19 May 97 15:54:14 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:32:55 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705192232.AA28155@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Re: stacking lasers X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk old email cleanup... ----- Begin Included Message ----- From: Doug Music Subject: Re: stacking lasers This is quite true. The lines are called "splits" and (simplistic) the quantum oscillation produces a "singlet" at the center frequency and this energy if "split" by a second frequency (+/-) about the singlet. Of course, there are a large number of frequency sources that all goof with the output to "split the splits" into a mess as you state. This is why phase-conjugate systems exist. (Out of our price range.) I simply use a tunable 15nM bandpass filter to select the band of interest. These are cheap and consist of a dielectric layer stack on common optical glass. The lay term for these is either "cold" or "hot" mirrors because of the common use. -Doug >By the way, despite their reputation, lasers are notoriously >non-monochromatic. ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Tue May 20 17:15:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27007; Tue, 20 May 97 17:15:34 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:59:29 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705202259.AA07910@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: aballen@colby.edu Subject: [LASER] Re: TX power gains Cc: laser@qsl.net X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk > Hey Rusty, > > I have a pair of .07 milliradiain lasers-that's 7 cm at a distance of 1 km! > At 100 km, its only 7 meters wide! (I'm going to assume a 1 foot per mile divergence - whats that in milliradians?) looked at the other way - if you are JUST to the right of your target, and you have a 6 FOOT lever on which your laser is mounted, and you move one end of that lever 5 mils - you've just missed the target on the LEFT! (These numbers are from memory, but they are within an order of magnitude, base 5, possibly base 2) rusty >From owner-laser Tue May 20 17:58:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29784; Tue, 20 May 97 17:58:25 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:53:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [LASER] CQ VHF stuff. Message-Id: <19970520.205310.4902.1.K3PGP@juno.com> References: <9705202359.AA25964@berlioz.nsc.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-9,13-23,25-32 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Jim: I don't know how you managed to come by this but thanks for the relay. Most interesting reading! Email or post the outline when it's done so I know what you might want or expect from me. To ALL: I've been extremely busy as of late spending every spare moment I have on the laser project and practically none on the computer. I have some very interesting observations, experiments and new equipment to report on as soon as I can drag myself away from the soldering iron! John K3PGP@juno.com On Tue, 20 May 97 16:59:13 PDT jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) writes: >John, K3PGP's article about laser pointer mentioned in Rich's memo >see Item 5. > >BTW... Thanks to all who said they'd help put some articles together >for CQ VHF on laser. I'm working on the outline from what I presented a >couple weeks ago, and what I got back from you all. > >Jim > > -==- >From owner-laser Tue May 20 22:52:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13767; Tue, 20 May 97 22:52:47 PDT Date: Tue, 20 May 97 22:52:45 PDT From: jmoss (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705210552.AA13761@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@berlioz Subject: [LASER] CQ VHF stuff. Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk ----- Begin Included Message ----- John, K3PGP's article about laser pointer mentioned in Rich's memo see Item 5. BTW... Thanks to all who said they'd h*e*l*p put some articles together for CQ VHF on laser. I'm working on the outline from what I presented a couple weeks ago, and what I got back from you all. Jim ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From vhf-owner@w6yx.stanford.edu Tue May 20 16:39:18 1997 From: W2VU@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:23:50 -0400 (EDT) To: cboone@earthlink.net Cc: vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu, CQVHF@aol.com Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Sender: owner-vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Content-Length: 7662 Hi Chris -- In a message dated 97-05-10 04:12:04 EDT, you write: << I AM frustrated that CQ HAD a mag that did cater to all and then decided to come out with the "speciality" mags trying to entice me to buy another magazine...and from what I have seen, they are NOT worth the extra costs....I DID get a life subscription to HR Magazine...which was one of the best technical magazines in its time....yet when CQ bought it, they did an injustice to ALL HR sub holders by scuttling HR and then teasing us by saying CQ would increase its overall coverage.....what did they do? They SPLIT the coverage...so much for loyalty.... I have a life time membership...that GIVES me the right to b*tch and complain.... >> Against the better judgment of several other hams, I'd like to respond publicly to a couple of your points. First of all, as a subscriber (of any duration), you certainly have a right to complain -- and the right to a response. But you also need to know the facts. Here are just a few: 1) The "injustice" to HR subscribers would have been much greater if CQ had NOT bought the magazine. HR no longer had the subscriber or advertiser base to support a monthly magazine and was about to fold -- without help from CQ. If CQ had NOT purchased HR, you and all other HR subscribers would have been left with nothing at all. Your investment in a life subscription would have been lost and there would have been nothing anyone could do about it. CQ's purchase of HR allowed subscribers to keep getting a magazine every month for the remaineder of their subscription terms; it enabled the HR Bookstore (now spun off as Radio Bookstore) to remain in business; and it enabled the subsequent creation of "Communications Quarterly," with HR's former editor at the helm, as a totally-technical magazine for the dwindling numbers of readers interested enough in highly-technical articles to subscribe. 2) CQ VHF has not "split" CQ's coverage of VHF topics, and CQ's coverage of VHF topics has not decreased. If anything, it has increased (as has QST's). CQ VHF has provided a forum for articles and topics that are too specialized to have made it in CQ. Examples of these include lead features in two consecutive issues devoted to sporadic-E theory; a 5-page article on new discoveries about aurora based on photos by NASA satellites; a 2-part guide to EME (station requirements in part 1 and operating guidelines in part 2), a report on the last SSTV QSOs via OSCAR-13, and a 2-part look at contest "rover" operation. And, oh yes, did I mention that we occasionally run an FM-related article? (although, frankly, I'm hard-pressed to think of a recent one, outside of equipment reviews and our "Beginner's Corner" column -- maybe our 2-part series on communicating with the Mir space station and using the 70-centimeter RUDAK experiment -- another article too specialized for CQ's general readership.) 3) CQ VHF was created to meet a need in the ham radio publishing world -- a need for a magazine that took VHF operating, and VHF operators, seriously; a magazine that didn't treat them as second-class hams; a magazine that would introduce new hams to the opportunities available to them without upgrading -- and that would teach proper operating techniques that so many established operators complain the newcomers are lacking when they try something new; a magazine that would connect all the various subspecialties of VHF operators, keep each group informed about the others' activities, and perhaps promote greater cooperation among subgroups, since the outside groups that want our frequencies don't care if you work weak-signal, satellites, packet, APRS or repeaters. This is why CQ VHF was created. 4) Obviously, we want people to buy our magazines. That's what puts bread on our tables. But that's not why we started a new magazine. We started a new magazine because we felt that there was a very large group of hams who felt excluded by the mainstream amateur radio community -- the organizations, the manufacturers and the publishers. These same amateurs tended to read no magazines (since they felt the magazines had nothing to offer them) and didn't belong to the ARRL or their local clubs, generally for the same reasons. In short, they were not "connected" to the ham radio community and culture. It was (and is) our hope that a new magazine -- a magazine with the right attitude -- would draw these individuals into the group. 5) CQ VHF is not -- and cannot be -- a weak-signal magazine ... or a satellite magazine, or a digital magazine or an ATV magazine or even a repeater magazine. None of these groups of operators, alone, is large enough to support a commercially-viable monthly magazine. All of these operators, together, though, are another story. Likewise, since we are trying to reach a broad audience with many interests, and of many experience levels, not every article will work for us. But very many articles can be MADE to work for us. For example, on my way home from Dayton, I was reading through a couple of recent issues of "Feed Point," the newsletter of the North Texas Microwave Society. This is one of the most highly technical groups to be found anywhere in amateur radio today. The current issue contains two fascinating technical articles -- one by K3PGP on building a circuit to modulate the signal of a $25 laser pointer on MCW, FM or SSB; and the other, by N0UGY, on building a transmit/receive sequencer based on a digital logic device called a PAL (for Programmed Array Logic). Both of these articles (correctly) assume a fair amount of base knowledge and are written for the experienced builder. As they stand, they would not work for CQ VHF because they assume a level of expertise that, while valid for "Feed Point" readers, is beyond the knowledge base of many CQ VHF readers. On the other hand, with not too much in the way of additional introduction and explanation, either one or both of these could be made to work for CQ VHF -- without making them any less useful or interesting to the experienced reader. In fact, if you've written something recently that's been published in a specialty newsletter, and you think it might be of interest to people beyond the reach of that newsletter, drop me a note. We might well be interested in a variation on the same theme (different enough to not be the identical piece). 6) Finally, for the gentleman who said he didn't care to read about what other hams at his level of expertise were doing, but only wanted to hear from the "top stations," you need to realize two things: a) just because someone is a good designer / builder / operator doesn't guarantee that he'll be a good writer; or that he'll have the time or interest to write about his activities. In Dayton, for example, I spoke with a VERY prominent VHF operator about writing for CQ VHF. He said he'd love to, but was very busy with work and might, might, be able to come up with something many months down the road. And b) the "top" operators weren't always the "top" operators. A "just like me" operator with an interesting project or good operating suggestions may be on his way to becoming one of tomorrow's "top" ops. Besides, publishing accurate, well-written, articles is a good way to become better known among your peers. Remember: It's in YOUR power to make a good magazine better. I look forward to hearing from anyone with article ideas. 73, Rich Moseson, W2VU Editor, CQ VHF ------ Submissions: vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Subscription/removal requests: vhf-request@w6yx.stanford.edu Human list administrator: vhf-approval@w6yx.stanford.edu ----- End Included Message ----- ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Thu May 22 20:44:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29069; Thu, 22 May 97 20:44:40 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Thu, 22 May 97 20:31:55 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705230331.AA28498@berlioz.nsc.com> To: vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu Subject: [LASER] 50MHz and Up Group Meeting, 6/1 (SF Bay Area) Cc: WSWSS@qsl.net, laser@qsl.net Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk The 50MHz and Up Group will hold its next meeting on Sunday, June 1, 1997 at 1PM. The meeting will he held at Lockheed Building 202, in Palo Alto, CA. The speaker will be Victor Frank, K6FV. Victor will talk to us about 6 meter F2 Propagation and how it differs from HF F2. Lockheed building 202 is on Hanover street, just south of Page Mill Road, between I-280 and 101. Take Hanover south and follow the curve up the hill, Bldg 202 is on the right about 2/3 of the way to the top. Pull into the parking lot and drive to the back. Climb the stairs to the auditorium. For more information contact Jim Moss, WB9AJZ at 408-746-2789 >From owner-laser Sun May 25 13:15:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00492; Sun, 25 May 97 13:15:07 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Sun, 25 May 97 13:04:36 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705252004.AA00113@berlioz.nsc.com> To: daveaa1a@ssih.com Subject: Re: [LASER] CQ VHF stuff. Cc: laser@qsl.net Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Dave Nice to hear from you. SBPSK sounds interesting, but I don't expect we will need it. Built up the 8" lens in a sonotube and mounted one of the UV215BQ's to the back of it. works great. Very strong returns off the tree tops. Aiming is now more critical for the RX. Also mounted a fresnel lens (book mag) into a file box, painted the inside flat black, and put my PMT inside. WOW! I forgot to remove my black electrical tape from the front of the PMT and I was getting returns off the tree tops! Took off the tape and very loud! The Fry's laser turned out to be not 670nM but 650 or 635 at 5.4dBmW. So it appears very BRIGHT! THey sold out on Sunday last and were issuing rainchecks. I now have 2 TX setups and 5 RX's ready for June! 73, Jim WB9AJZ >From owner-laser Mon May 26 08:38:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10936; Mon, 26 May 97 08:38:52 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:32:00 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Detector Project & Sources for Detectors Message-Id: <19970526.114216.13598.3.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,7-8,14-15,22-25,29-30,33-34,36-37,42-49 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Other than Hamamatsu, who is still making and selling PIN photodiodes or other types of photodetectors such as APDs, etc. Does anyone have any PIN photodiodes or other types of photodetectors laying around that they might be able to part with? Since this is an experimental project and I don't know exactly where it might lead I'm looking to round up a bunch of different detectors to compare. Buying these new would be cost prohibitive. I'm doing some work with very high impedance cooled preamps and solid state detectors. So far the work seems very promising. However, I can't seem to locate any diodes. During a call to HP I was told they quit selling the 4200 series PIN photodiodes about 15 years ago and there is NO substitute. All production is going into fiber optic detectors which are optimized for speed and NOT weak signal work. Once this work is complete I intend to publish the results here and on the web site complete with audio recordings of the same calibrated weak signal as heard with various detectors. This should allow people to get some idea as to how well various detectors perform. Judging by the Email that I get there seems to be a LOT of interest in how various detectors perform. Since I'd like to know this as well I'm setting up to compare as many different detectors as I can find! ----- If you have something you'd like to have compared send me Email with your proposal. This should be the detector ONLY (and preamp if applicable) and NO optics! I can't guarantee any absolute calibrations but relative comparisons should be quite accurate to within a fraction of a dB. I'm working on a calibrated light source. When this is done I expect to be able to reference the relative readings to it and produce absolute sensitivity readings. So far I have two unknown PIN diodes feeding FET preamps, a BB OPT-210w using a 100 meg feedback resistor, and some PMTs. If you want to send something for comparison (LOAN and NOT sell!) I suggest INSURED priority mail. I'd need to have it for approx. 24 to 48 hours minimum then it will be returned via the same route. You will have to pay postage both ways. If you are selling something I will be happy to pay postage and all other fees. John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Mon May 26 12:41:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19783; Mon, 26 May 97 12:41:21 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:36:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "C. W. Wright" X-Sender: wwright@wayne.home.net To: John K3PGP Cc: laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Detector Project & Sources for Detectors In-Reply-To: <19970526.114216.13598.3.K3PGP@juno.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: "C. W. Wright" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk > Other than Hamamatsu, who is still making and selling PIN photodiodes or > other types of photodetectors such as APDs, etc. EG & G Reticon has a very nice selection. -Wayne >From owner-laser Mon May 26 14:16:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23362; Mon, 26 May 97 14:16:47 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:19:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [LASER] Detector Project & Sources for Detectors Message-Id: <19970526.172033.6406.1.K3PGP@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-16,18-32 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Wayne: Can you give me any more info on EG & G? Any diodes that you might be familiar with or have used that they make and where to buy them? I will also need adr., Telephone, fax number, etc. for EG & G.. Thanks John K3PGP@juno.com On Mon, 26 May 1997 15:36:50 -0400 (EDT) "C. W. Wright" writes: > > >> Other than Hamamatsu, who is still making and selling PIN >photodiodes or other types of photodetectors such as APDs, etc. > > > EG & G Reticon has a very nice selection. > >-Wayne > > > -==- >From owner-laser Mon May 26 14:31:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23921; Mon, 26 May 97 14:31:05 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:26:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "C. W. Wright" X-Sender: wwright@wayne.home.net To: John K3PGP Cc: laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Detector Project & Sources for Detectors In-Reply-To: <19970526.172033.6406.1.K3PGP@juno.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: "C. W. Wright" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk > Can you give me any more info on EG & G? > I will also need adr., Telephone, fax number, etc. for EG & G.. Hi John, I'll email it to you tomorrow. I have their catalog at work. They have one catalog that's only selfscanned diode arrays, and I believe another one which is only diodes and arrays of diodes. They have some single diodes that are fast ( nanosecond ), and also have large apetures so you can collect more light. You also might look into APDs. They have gains on the order of 1000 or so. Not as good as a PMT, but much better than your basic diode. I like PMTs best :-) -Wayne >From owner-laser Mon May 26 17:19:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29989; Mon, 26 May 97 17:19:16 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <338A4364.56AB@midstate.tds.net> Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 19:13:56 -0700 From: Michael Berg Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: laser reflector Subject: [LASER] Experience w/Midwest Laser Products? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: Michael Berg Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk In Midwest Laser Products catalog they feature a 12v self contained HeNe laser Cat# HNM2-12. Wondering if anyone has used it and/or the modulation kit they also offer. -- >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~< >From owner-laser Tue May 27 05:46:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26906; Tue, 27 May 97 05:46:48 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: aol11.wff.nasa.gov: wright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:39:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "C. W. Wright (1698)" X-Sender: wright@aol11.wff.nasa.gov To: laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Detector Project & Sources for Detectors (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: "C. W. Wright (1698)" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Can you give me any more info on EG & G? EG & G 345 Portrero Ave, Sunnyvale Ca. 94088-4197 (408)738-4266 also: 35 Congress Street, Salem Ma. 01970-6529 (508)745-7400 :-) Wayne >From owner-laser Tue May 27 09:28:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06623; Tue, 27 May 97 09:28:24 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Tue, 27 May 97 09:21:20 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705271621.AA06270@berlioz.nsc.com> To: mikeberg@midstate.tds.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Experience w/Midwest Laser Products? Cc: laser@qsl.net Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Mike, Don't know about the 12v HeNe you are refering to. Local surplus place here has a Miles Griot (spelling?) 12v in for some 6" tubes. They also have 5-7mW 18" tubes, but no supplies. Modulation with HeNe as we discussed here before are: 1) fan in front to chop it and make a tone 2) modulate the 12v line 3) Modulating thru a crystal 4) modulate the HV line (carefull) There are probably other ways, but these come to mind right now. Jim WB9AJZ >From owner-laser Tue May 27 09:28:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06627; Tue, 27 May 97 09:28:26 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Tue, 27 May 97 09:17:21 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705271617.AA06079@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Cloud bounce Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Finally, It was cloudy last night! Thin layer, partly broken. I pointed the PMT with 8x10 fresnel (book magnifier mounted in a file box) straight up. (no filters this time) And fired off a 670nM 4mW signal, 700Hz tone up into the sky. After a little tweeking (searching) for the sweet spot on the RX, got a weak return off the clouds. I could not see the spot with naked eye or with my 8x56 bino's. Don't know how high the clouds were, but likely >4000 ft, as I could see the mountains around us. All this despite the heavy sodium vapor lamps reflecting off the clouds. Tried hearing backscatter by pointing off at 45-60 degrees, but no luck. Maybe it would work better off the SIDE of the cloud, as the angle would be better. Jim WB9AJZ/6 CM87xi >From owner-laser Tue May 27 10:07:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08606; Tue, 27 May 97 10:07:58 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:01:48 -0700 From: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Message-Id: <9705271701.AA24986@fmsserv99.azfms.com> To: laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Detector Project & Sources for Detectors X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Reply-To: c1040@azfms.com (Rusty Carruth) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk ----- Begin Included Message ----- .From: music@Tempe.ate.slb.com (Doug Music) .Subject: Re: [LASER] Detector Project & Sources for Detectors United Detector Technology makes photo detectors in a wide variety. UDT is in Cal. but my little address book is at home. Call directory assistance. -Doug Douglas E. Music Email: music@san-jose.ate.slb.com Email: music@goodnet.com __o _`\<,_ _______(*)/_(*)__________ ----- End Included Message ----- >From owner-laser Tue May 27 10:20:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09171; Tue, 27 May 97 10:20:39 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: From: "Myszka, Mike" To: "'Laser reflector'" Subject: [LASER] PIN photodoides Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:14:45 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: "Myszka, Mike" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk In a earlier posted message, someone was asking if anyone else makes PIN detectors. Has anyone done any work with UDT Sensors detectors? I use the UDT-555D at work. Basically we use it to "see" a 5mm dia molten metal sample as it falls down a 105m tube. A detector at the top is able to see the sample as it splats at the bottom of the tube. The UDT 555D has a built in amplifier. The PIN-6DI has extremely low noise and works fantastic when connected to a log amp. If anyone would like any more info, feel free to contact me. Mke >From owner-laser Tue May 27 10:59:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11194; Tue, 27 May 97 10:59:23 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:58:14 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Cloud Bounce Message-Id: <19970527.135816.16270.2.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,11-12,16-17,24-25,28-29,33-34,36-37,40-41,43-49 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Jim: I haven't had time to write up much of what I've been up to lately, but your recent note reminded me that I have to get with it and start writing. I recently purchased a CCD camera (more details to follow!) that can see well into the IR range. Using this camera it is no problem at all to see a 780 nm laser beam reflected off the clouds! The returned echo varies in intensity from just detectable at the horizon to extremely bright overhead. The CCD camera is being used with both a 20 to 80 mm zoom lens and a 6 inch reflecting telescope. Since one must mount the laser on the side of the camera the laser and camera are always looking at the same spot but from a slightly different angle. Using this crude interferometer setup it is possible to determine distance by the position of the returned echo on the TV screen! In addition to cloud bounce, I have also managed to hit birds that are 4 to 5 miles out. This is easier than it sounds since the camera and laser move as one unit and it's possible to see some backscattered laser signal most of the time. Because of this you always know where you are pointed in relation to the target. It's kind of like a computer game but on a bigger scale, except the birds don't fall out of the sky when their hit! :-^) One thing I did start to notice after playing around with this is that the birds seem to be attracted to the 780 nm laser beam and after a while will start to dive toward it. Very interesting to watch! I have also used this same setup during a rainstorm and by adjusting the focus on the camera I was able to select the distance to where the reflecting rain drops were in focus. During a heavy rain the refection coming from several miles up was almost continuous. I've also been able to see the reflected 780 nm laser beam off some land based targets that are greater than 30 miles away! All this means that two NON line of site stations should have no problem at all working each other via cloud bounce, rain scatter, or some land based target used as a reflector! When I get a chance, I plan to digitize some of the above and place them on my web site as .AVI files. John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Tue May 27 12:57:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17419; Tue, 27 May 97 12:57:26 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:57:02 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Getting the EG&G UV-215 diode out Message-Id: <19970527.155716.25094.0.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-13,18,22-25,31-32,35-36,40-41,43-49 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Jim: >There is a diffuser mounted in the block, but it is easily >removed. The diodes are NOT easily removed from the >block. They are epoxied and force fit in. I did get one >out, so as to figure out what device it was. Had to break >the diode can and quartz window to get it out. Remind me not to call you when my watch breaks!!! Just kidding. Here's how to get them out. Remove the three set screws in the back of the aluminum housing. Take a large jewelers screw driver, (I used the largest one in my set, approx. 1/8 wide with a nice pointed chisel tip) and try to stick it under the lip of the photodiode from the rear. Gently pry up and slightly twist the screwdriver. Do this at three or more equal distant points around the circumference of the diode. You should see and feel the diode moving ever so slightly with each attempt. Don't try to pry it out all at once from one side. Just continue working your way around the diode and it will eventually pop out unharmed! To anyone that wants to know: I found this diode to be more sensitive than anything that I own at UV wavelengths. However, it's NOT the greatest IR (780 nm) detector. A signal that is 3 dB out of the noise on my best PIN diode detector is NOT audible on the UV-215 using the same preamp. After increasing the test signal till I got +3 dB SNR on the UV-215 I then switched back to my detector and was greeted with >10 dB SNR !!! Make no mistake about it. This is a good diode. It just doesn't appear to be the best choice for IR work. Guess that's why it's number starts with UV !!! I ended up replacing the UV-215 with a more suitable diode and used the housing only. The reason I did this is because this housing is an exact fit in a standard eyepiece focusing assembly on most telescopes! It like it was custom made for my reflecting telescopes. The UV-215 will be used in another project where I will need the extended UV response. John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Tue May 27 15:58:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26710; Tue, 27 May 97 15:58:15 PDT Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:48:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705272248.RAA10576@bluestem.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: laser@berlioz.nsc.com Subject: Laser source Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, Hosfelt Electronics has a couple items on sale now in an update catalog. Part # 75-160, "Laser Diode with collimating lens", 3.5 mW, 650 nM, built-in driver circuit, adjustable focus, for $29.95. Also "4 mW laser pointer", 650 nM, part # 75-221, for $29.95. These are about $10 cheaper than their usual prices. Their address is: Hosfelt Electronics 2700 Sunset Blvd. Steubenville OH 43952-1158 (800) 524-6464 Zack W9SZ -- >From owner-laser Tue May 27 17:57:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03170; Tue, 27 May 97 17:57:41 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:49:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Walter Miller To: Jim Moss Cc: mikeberg@midstate.tds.net, laser@qsl.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Experience w/Midwest Laser Products? In-Reply-To: <9705271621.AA06270@berlioz.nsc.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: Walter Miller Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 27 May 1997, Jim Moss wrote: > > Mike, > Don't know about the 12v HeNe you are refering to. Local surplus place here > has a Miles Griot (spelling?) 12v in for some 6" tubes. They also have > 5-7mW 18" tubes, but no supplies. FYI, I searched the Web and found Midwest Laser Products online catalog at http://www.midwest-laser.com/ You can download their catalog in Adobe Acrobat format. It has some very interesting stuff, including the HeNe ($47) and modulator ($10) that Mike mentioned in his post. I guess the modulator is a external liquid crystal type, but I am not sure. Lots of other items including solid state lasers, Argon lasers and power supplies, laser light show equipment, optics, books, and more. I have not purchased anything from this company, but their Web catalog is sure worth browsing. 73, Walt ------------------------------------------------------- Walter Miller, AJ6T Saratoga, CA USA CM87 Reply to aj6t@slip.net >From owner-laser Tue May 27 18:58:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05856; Tue, 27 May 97 18:58:44 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <01BC6AE8.4DA44760@tnt1-174.HiWAAY.net> From: "Edward M. Myszka III" To: "'laser@qsl.net'" Subject: [LASER] laser diodes Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:52:40 -0600 Reply-To: "Edward M. Myszka III" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Can anyone recommend a decent (both price and quality) diode laser that will be sufficient to start experimenting with laser communications? Mike (KE4RNB) >From owner-laser Wed May 28 14:12:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26142; Wed, 28 May 97 14:12:15 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:58:11 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Writing HTML Code Message-Id: <19970528.115813.4070.5.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-7,10-11,14-15,17-18,21-22,26-32 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk I think this got zapped the first time I sent it. If you get two copies, ignore one! ----- Although this is somewhat off topic it does apply to what I'm doing with laser research in an indirect way. I've been struggling recently to get up to speed on writing the html code necessary to drive a web site. I have many years experience writing assembly, Pascal, etc. but I'm not quite sure how to attack this. I've been writing the code manually with a word processor! This seems to me to be the equivalent of poking binary numbers into an early computer by toggling the front panel switches. (Did I just give my age away???) Can anyone send me Email on what they use to write this code. Are there some good public domain programs out there to do this? PLEASE respond directly to my Email adr. since this reflector is NOT the best place for a discussion of this subject. (Unless of course we're discussing the Laser Web site!) PS - The sooner I can get this going the sooner I can get rid of this backlog of data that I've been acculmating from my laser research. There's some really neat stuff here but at the rate I'm going it will be old news before I get it posted! John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Wed May 28 14:12:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26153; Wed, 28 May 97 14:12:26 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:54:47 -0400 Subject: [LASER] Cloud Bounce Suggestions Message-Id: <19970528.115449.4070.4.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,12-13,18-19,26-27,30-31,36-37,40-46 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk To anyone that wants to try cloud bounce I offer the following suggestions: Wait for a very heavy overcast night, preferably when it's raining off and on. Aim your laser as close to STRAIGHT UP as possible! (For these experiments I generally have mine mounted just under the overhang of the house on the front porch. The elevation is around 70 or 80 degrees. I don't have it looking straight up since I don't want to deal with water running into the laser or covering the lens!) Have the other station start looking straight up then search in a pattern from this location down to the horizon in your general direction. (The farther away he is the lower your signal will appear in the sky.) At some point he should acquire your signal. This has been tested here over several NON line of site paths of approx. 5 miles ground distance. Signals varied from just detectable to extremely loud depending on the cloud cover. On a clear night NO signals are heard at all! So far I don't have any stations farther out that I can test with. This system is a LOT easier than two stations trying to probe around and hit the same cloud! It also lends itself to beacon mode where several stations in the area just let their laser run 24 hours a day aimed as close to straight up as possible! Of course you can get better DX by aiming at the horizon but that will also somewhat limit the direction from where your signal can be heard. Sort of like an omni antenna vs a directional yagi array! I'll post some more data on the CCD camera experiment when I get a chance to look up all the model numbers and adr. as I'm sure there are other's that will want to try this! NOTE: It is extremely helpful if your laser and receive setup are on one mount and aligned so that they point at approximately the same spot in space. This will allow two way communications without the hassle of aiming two separate setups at something that you probably can't see with your eye! Of course it also allows echo testing! The ultimate DX you can work via this mode depends on the height of the cloud cover vs look angle. (Looking straight up gives omni coverage but less possible distance.) John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Wed May 28 14:12:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26136; Wed, 28 May 97 14:12:13 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: mmyszka@hiwaay.net, laser@qsl.net Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:04:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [LASER] laser diodes Message-Id: <19970528.112057.4070.0.K3PGP@juno.com> References: <01BC6AE8.4DA44760@tnt1-174.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,6-7,10-13,15-18,21-25,27-37,42-49,51-60 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Mike: There are sales on laser pens from time to time. However, this offer has been running for some time. I wrote a construction article based on this pen some time ago. If you want a copy of it let me know... I also have a limited supply of IR (780 nm) diodes. These are the diodes ONLY! You have to build the current limiter and come up with a collimation lens. The laser pen is the way to go if you are just starting out. Several people have reported QSO's of over 30 miles with this pen on their first attempt! ----- If you haven't ordered your laser pen I suggest you get busy and order it before this offer disappears! Remember you get FREE SHIPPING when using this order number! Lyte Optronics Laser Pointer Pen Model # CPP2 <5 mw 670 nm (NOTE: Typical power output 1 to 2 mw - Can be increased to 5 mw - WITH CAUTION!) Uses 2 AAA batteries (included) Available from: Damark 1-(800) 827-6767 Quote the following Item # and get FREE SHIPPING! ($5.99 value!) Item # B-50051-509141 Price: $24.99 Non members / $22.49 for Damark Members Remember: Shipping is FREE with the above item number and Damark has a no questions asked 60 day return policy! So if you the pen isn't as expected, put it back in the box and send it back for a complete refund! Of course this assumes you haven't drilled holes in it and have wires hanging out of it :-^) ! John K3PGP@juno.com ----- On Tue, 27 May 1997 21:52:40 -0600 "Edward M. Myszka III" writes: >Can anyone recommend a decent (both price and quality) diode laser >that will be sufficient to start experimenting with laser >communications? > >Mike (KE4RNB) > > -==- >From owner-laser Wed May 28 14:31:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27243; Wed, 28 May 97 14:31:49 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <338CBF00.6761@midstate.tds.net> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:25:52 -0700 From: Michael Berg Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: laser reflector Subject: [LASER] Xformer modulation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: Michael Berg Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Ordered one of those $47 lasers from Midwest Laser Products along with the modulation kit. The guy on the phone said it was a transformer type modulator. I recall reading somewhere that the practical limit to this type of modulation was 3 kHz, which would be baseband audio. Guess my question is whether or not this is true and if so, why? I've also read about using a high volt TV type transistor instead. I assume the transistor would be biased at 1/2 Vce and modulated around that Q point? What type of biasing circuit do you use for this? Lastly, I picked up a Frenzel lens today and was wondering about the best way to use it with my phototransistor detector. 73 Mike N0QBH -- >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~< >From owner-laser Wed May 28 17:49:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08011; Wed, 28 May 97 17:49:55 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:44:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "C. W. Wright" X-Sender: wwright@wayne.home.net To: Michael Berg Cc: laser reflector Subject: Re: [LASER] Xformer modulation In-Reply-To: <338CBF00.6761@midstate.tds.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: "C. W. Wright" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk A great way to modulate a cw laser is with an "AO" modulator. Basically, you pass the cw beam thru the "AO" device and you apply RF (typically ~150mhz) to the device to cause modulation. You then simply modulate the RF by conventional means. I don't think they are too expensive. It's pratical to apply modulation into the mhz region. They also make nice tunable optical filters, where you siimply change the RF frequency and get a coresponding shift in the passband. :-) Wayne >From owner-laser Wed May 28 18:12:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09084; Wed, 28 May 97 18:12:19 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:11:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "C. W. Wright" X-Sender: wright@twc2.betaweb.com To: Jim Moss Cc: laser@qsl.net, mikeberg@midstate.tds.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Xformer modulation and Fresnel mount In-Reply-To: <9705290052.AA08164@berlioz.nsc.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: "C. W. Wright" Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk > works, but very low % of modulation. You really have to crank in the audio > power to move the laser intensity. It sounded good. But with a low modulation > level, it likely won't have the range of one running at 100% modulation. I wonder if you could modulate a HeNe by mechanically coupling a speaker to the one of the mirrors that forms the cavity. Maybe the vibrations in the mirror would then cause power variations ( modulation ) in the optical output. Just a thought... :-) Wayne > Fresnel lens mountings... I have a 8x10 page magnifier. It fits very nicely > into a "file box" (Those cardboard boxes sold in stationary stores for keeping > files in.) I cut out one side slightly smaller than the magnifier. I then > taped it in place with black electrical tape (this will be a problem in very > hot or cold weather, because of the glue sticky getting all over everything). > I then mounted a 1"x3" board under the box, and another inside the box. This > provides rigidity, and a place to mount a sensor. I just drilled a 1/4" hole > through both pieces of wood and the box. Use a 1/4-20 screw and wingnut and it > will fit nicely on a tripod mount. I spray painted the inside > of the box and 1x3 with rustoleum flat black. (Don't spray it on too thick, > just enough to cover the brown of the cardboard... seems to get shinier with > too much on it.) I then used a 4" L bracket to hold the sensor. I mounted > the sensor BEHIND the bracket, using the top hole as a "spatial filter". > (The bracket is also painted flat black.) You can have your phototransistor > stick thru the hole if you wanted. > > Don't mount the bracket until you find where the focal point of your lens > is. I used a bright 660nM LED about 40' away, and then moved the > bracket/sensor forward/back to focus. Then I screwed it in place. > > Place the top on it (also flat black painted on the inside) and you're > ready to see the light! > > Jim > WB9AJZ/6 > > > > > From owner-laser Wed May 28 17:39:02 1997 > > X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f > > Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:25:52 -0700 > > From: Michael Berg > > Organization: none > > X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > To: laser reflector > > Subject: [LASER] Xformer modulation > > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=us-ascii> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Reply-To: Michael Berg > > Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com > > Content-Length: 808 > > > > Ordered one of those $47 lasers from Midwest Laser Products along > > with the modulation kit. The guy on the phone said it was a > > transformer type modulator. I recall reading somewhere that the > > practical limit to this type of modulation was 3 kHz, which would > > be baseband audio. Guess my question is whether or not this is > > true and if so, why? > > I've also read about using a high volt TV type transistor instead. > > I assume the transistor would be biased at 1/2 Vce and modulated > > around that Q point? What type of biasing circuit do you use for > > this? > > Lastly, I picked up a Frenzel lens today and was wondering about > > the best way to use it with my phototransistor detector. > > > > 73 Mike N0QBH > > -- > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I oscillate - Therefore I am. > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~< > > > > > >From owner-laser Wed May 28 18:05:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08755; Wed, 28 May 97 18:05:29 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Date: Wed, 28 May 97 17:52:50 PDT From: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Message-Id: <9705290052.AA08164@berlioz.nsc.com> To: laser@qsl.net, mikeberg@midstate.tds.net Subject: Re: [LASER] Xformer modulation and Fresnel mount Reply-To: jmoss@berlioz.nsc.com (Jim Moss) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk Mike, I tried the tranformer methode last month, using a filament transformer. It works, but very low % of modulation. You really have to crank in the audio power to move the laser intensity. It sounded good. But with a low modulation level, it likely won't have the range of one running at 100% modulation. Fresnel lens mountings... I have a 8x10 page magnifier. It fits very nicely into a "file box" (Those cardboard boxes sold in stationary stores for keeping files in.) I cut out one side slightly smaller than the magnifier. I then taped it in place with black electrical tape (this will be a problem in very hot or cold weather, because of the glue sticky getting all over everything). I then mounted a 1"x3" board under the box, and another inside the box. This provides rigidity, and a place to mount a sensor. I just drilled a 1/4" hole through both pieces of wood and the box. Use a 1/4-20 screw and wingnut and it will fit nicely on a tripod mount. I spray painted the inside of the box and 1x3 with rustoleum flat black. (Don't spray it on too thick, just enough to cover the brown of the cardboard... seems to get shinier with too much on it.) I then used a 4" L bracket to hold the sensor. I mounted the sensor BEHIND the bracket, using the top hole as a "spatial filter". (The bracket is also painted flat black.) You can have your phototransistor stick thru the hole if you wanted. Don't mount the bracket until you find where the focal point of your lens is. I used a bright 660nM LED about 40' away, and then moved the bracket/sensor forward/back to focus. Then I screwed it in place. Place the top on it (also flat black painted on the inside) and you're ready to see the light! Jim WB9AJZ/6 > From owner-laser Wed May 28 17:39:02 1997 > X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f > Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:25:52 -0700 > From: Michael Berg > Organization: none > X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: laser reflector > Subject: [LASER] Xformer modulation > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=us-ascii> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Reply-To: Michael Berg > Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com > Content-Length: 808 > > Ordered one of those $47 lasers from Midwest Laser Products along > with the modulation kit. The guy on the phone said it was a > transformer type modulator. I recall reading somewhere that the > practical limit to this type of modulation was 3 kHz, which would > be baseband audio. Guess my question is whether or not this is > true and if so, why? > I've also read about using a high volt TV type transistor instead. > I assume the transistor would be biased at 1/2 Vce and modulated > around that Q point? What type of biasing circuit do you use for > this? > Lastly, I picked up a Frenzel lens today and was wondering about > the best way to use it with my phototransistor detector. > > 73 Mike N0QBH > -- > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I oscillate - Therefore I am. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~< > > >From owner-laser Wed May 28 23:19:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23006; Wed, 28 May 97 23:19:18 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970529051712.3577d7bc@personal.eunet.fi> X-Sender: oh2aue@personal.eunet.fi X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:17:12 +0400 To: "C. W. Wright" , Michael Berg From: Michael Fletcher Subject: Re: [LASER] Xformer modulation Cc: laser reflector Reply-To: Michael Fletcher Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk >A great way to modulate a cw laser is with an "AO" modulator. Basically, >you pass the cw beam thru the "AO" device and you apply RF (typically >~150mhz) to the device to cause modulation. You then simply modulate the >RF by conventional means. I don't think they are too expensive. It's >pratical to apply modulation into the mhz region. They also make nice >tunable optical filters, where you siimply change the RF frequency and get >a coresponding shift in the passband. > >:-) Wayne Hi Wayne and all, you are absolutely correct. An acousto-optical modulator you are describing is a device that incorporates a medium in which a wave front grating is generated by acoustical sound ( mechanical propagation ) waves. These waves are induced typically by a piezo-electric inducer. The practical difficulty here lies is matching the Hi-Z piezo in a broadband fashion to a real world 50 ohm source. The RF level needs usually to be in the watt region. The medium can be water ( for tens ... hundreds of MHz ) and usually lithium niobate is used for the 1 GHz range. The block of material needs also to be "terminated" for the mechanical acoustic waves to prevent reflections. As you can see, this is a cheap device in principle. Incidentally this kind of module is called a Bragg element ( named after the bloke ). What the laser is used for is as a coherent light source to illuminate the the medium at a particular angle. The laser light is then deflected to an angle proportional to the grating density. The amplitude of the deflected light is proportional to the grating amplitude i.e. RF amplitude. Dynamic range can be around 40 dB. The laser beam needs a spreading device to generate a "fan" of laser light. This can be conveniently generated with a few prisms. A collimating lense is also needed. These acousto-optical Bragg elements are used mostly in real time RF ( ! ) spectrum analysers for radio astronomy and military applications. Usually the visible ( optical ) RF spectrum is converted into electrical form via a CCD element for digital processing. I guess you can already imagine how such a device can be used as a modulator by using optical phasing etc. These things are pretty compact. In measuring instruments these complete units can be integrated onto one LSI including solid state laser, TE cooling and all. There are also MANY other methods of modulating light too, but I am mosted intrigued by the Bragg effect. One day I wanna build myself an acousto- optical spectrometer for experimenting with ! Michael, OH2AUE _\\///_ _ _ _ (' O O ') (_()_()_) I.O.O.F. *------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------* * Michael Fletcher OH2AUE: 50 MHz * * Vanhaistentie 4 C 43 144 MHz * * FIN-00420 Helsinki 432 MHz * * 1296 MHz * * Phone/Fax + 358 9 566 62 63 home 2.304 GHz * * Cellular + 358 50 5505 293 3.400 GHz * * Phone + 358 9 5259 1890 work 5.760 GHz * * http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/oh2aue/ 10.368 GHz * * 24.092 GHz * * Life is above 1 GHz; 474 THz * * >99.9 % of the ham bands are there..... * *--------------------------------------------------* >From owner-laser Fri May 30 00:55:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06207; Fri, 30 May 97 00:55:12 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f To: laser@qsl.net Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:58:47 -0400 Subject: [LASER] K3PGP Web Site ! Message-Id: <19970530.035849.17510.2.K3PGP@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.23 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-8,11-25,28-34 From: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Reply-To: k3pgp@juno.com (John K3PGP) Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk OK, the web site is up and running, sort of! As you can imagine it takes a LOT of time to put this stuff together, so I only had time to prepare a very limited amount of stuff. I'll be posting some pix of my equipment, construction articles, etc. time permitting. Check it out and let me know what you think and if everything works OK. PS - Thanks to all who responded to my query for HTML editors. I'm still open to suggestions but so far your recommendations seemed to work just fine. THANK YOU !!! OH YES! Almost forgot. The web site is at: www.qsl.net/k3pgp If that doesn't work try: www.qsl.net/k3pgp/index.html And if that doesn't work..... well, $%#@%$#@ NOTE: ALL qsl.net web sites were done for several days earlier this week. The system seems to be back up and running. Keep this in mind if you have trouble accessing the site. John K3PGP@juno.com -==- >From owner-laser Fri May 30 10:10:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by berlioz.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23713; Fri, 30 May 97 10:10:04 PDT X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.qsl.net: majordom set sender to owner-laser@qsl.net using -f Message-Id: <338EFE23.5D8A2810@qsl.net> Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 12:19:47 -0400 From: K3TKJ Organization: http://www.qsl.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.28 i486) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: laser@qsl.net Subject: [LASER] Hi guys thought you would be interested in this References: <3.0.32.19970515141119.00690bb8@osb.wff.nasa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: K3TKJ Sender: owner-laser@berlioz.nsc.com Precedence: bulk This is from the NASA Management Council Minutes > > > >MOLA Two Way Laser Link Experiment > > > >Tom Zagwodzki of 920.3 and Dick Chabot (ATSC) returned to the USAF Starfire > >Optical Range (SOR) Facility in Albuquerque, New Mexico last week to > >conduct satellite tests of the Ground Transmitter and receiver. They > >successfully tracked several satellites including LAGEOS. Separate > >telescopes at Starfire > >handled the transmit and receive functions. The received signal levels from > >LAGEOS were in good agreement with theoretical link calculations carried > >out by John Degnan. There appears to be a small but positive signal margin > >for > >both the uplinks and downlinks to the MGS spacecraft which will be roughly > >105 Million Km from Earth during the week of May 12th. > > > >Frank Lemoine and Dave Rowlands of 926 and Jan McGarry of 920.3 have > >generated both transmit and receive pointing data for the upcoming > >experiment to the MGS spacecraft. The pointing angles must be extremely > >accurate due to the narrow laser beam divergence (about 7 arcseconds FWHM). > >The Earth/MGS distance of 105 Million kilometers implies a one-way light > >transit time of almost 6 minutes. Because of this, separate calculations > >must be done to point ahead of the target for the transmit and to point > >behind for the receive. Jan McGarry and Dick Chabot are presently at > >Starfire to test the system pointing. > > > >John Degnan and Tom Zagwodzki of 920.3 and Jim Abshire and Xiaoli Sun of > >924 are now scheduled to leave for Starfire on Sunday, May 11, assuming the > >remaining May 14 and 15 experiment dates hold. The May 12 opportunity was > >canceled after the MGS Spacecraft suddenly went into a "Safe Mode" and the > >MOLA temperature dropped. The MOLA PI, Dr. David Smith, will make the > >decision to proceed, cancel or postpone the experiment based on events over > >the next few days. > >