RE: [SI-LIST] : Accuracy of HSPICE W-element transmission lines

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From: David Kaiser (david.kaiser@mcdata.com)
Date: Mon Nov 27 2000 - 16:28:12 PST


Nope. This is conjecture based on my expectations and experience. But when I
confronted a support person at Avanti, he addmitted that there may be
limitations above 1GHz.
 
David

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Miller [mailto:ldmiller@nortelnetworks.com]
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 11:53 AM
To: David Kaiser; Kai Keskinen; si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] : Accuracy of HSPICE W-element transmission lines

Yes, but have you compared your results (either) with real hardware?

Inquiring minds want to know....

Thanks,

Larry Miller

        -----Original Message-----
From: David Kaiser [SMTP:david.kaiser@mcdata.com]
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:17 AM
To: Keskinen, Kai [KAN:0G15:EXCH]; si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] : Accuracy of HSPICE W-element transmission
lines

        I have compared the W-element with the RLGC matrix from running
APSIM on 100 Ohm diff'l pairs). With a 30ps pulse and 10ps rise times, the
reflected pulse was very symetrical for the W-element, but showed and RC
roll off with APSIM. The APSIM seemed to shown a more realistic reflection
pulse.

          
David Kaiser
McDATA Corp.
310 Interlocken Pkwy.
Broomfield, CO 80021
(303) 460-4431
davidk@mcdata.com

          

        -----Original Message-----
From: Kai Keskinen [ mailto:keskinen@nortelnetworks.com
<mailto:keskinen@nortelnetworks.com> ]
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 11:19 AM
To: si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
Subject: [SI-LIST] : Accuracy of HSPICE W-element transmission lines

        Hello SI-People:

        We have now several times encountered differences in results from
other modelling packages and results from HSPICE w-element models for
applications involving fairly long striplines > 30cm on FR4 and GETEK with
2.5Gbps signals with ~100ps edge rates. The W-element model appears to give
lower loss than the other techniques. Typical track widths are 6-8 mils with
100Ohm loosely coupled differential pairs.

        Avant! claims the W-element method is accurate without providing a
paper showing how it was validated.

        How does the rest of the SI community feel about the accuracy of the
W-element model?

        Thanks in advance,

        Kai Keskinen
Equipment and Network Interconnect
Nortel Subsystems and Performance Networks (NSPaN)
(613)-765-3506 (ESN 395)
keskinen@nortelnetworks.com

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