RE: [SI-LIST] : FW: Spectraquest Vs. XTK/XNS

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From: Ralf Bruening (rbruening@pad.incases.com)
Date: Tue Oct 03 2000 - 12:48:23 PDT


Hi all,
not intended as advertising but even more for completeness or
underling Fred and Mike - the simulation kernel of our Radiation
Workbench tool computes as well Common mode and Differential
Mode radiation - as well seperated from our SI tools - the
tools have formerly marketed as INCASES EMC-Workbench and
after the INCASES aquisition by ZUKEN we are now part of Zukens
Board Integrity Solution Group.

kind regards

        Ralf Bruening

On 3 Oct 2000, at 11:58, Ken Cantrell wrote:

> Mike,
> Thanks for the input. Always happy to look at new sources.
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Ventham [mailto:ventham@quantic-emc.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 11:33 AM
> To: Ken Cantrell
> Cc: fred@apsimtech.com; Jim Freeman; Donald Telian; May, John;
> si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : FW: Spectraquest Vs. XTK/XNS
>
>
> Ken,
>
> Just to confirm what Fred says about other companies' offerings.
>
> Quantic also does both differential and common mode emissions as part
> of our EMC Tool Compliance. You can get the emissions analysis and SI
> analysis tools integrated or separately, and you don't have to buy one
> to get the other.
>
> Ken Cantrell wrote:
> >
> > Fred,
> > Thanks for the heads up. I'll check Applied out. Does Applied have
> > an integrated package, i.e., diff and common on emissions + SI tool
> > suite, or is it a stand-alone field solver pack like EMS-Plus? Ken
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fred@apsimtech.com [mailto:fred@apsimtech.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:33 AM
> > To: Ken Cantrell
> > Cc: Jim Freeman; Donald Telian; May, John; si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
> > Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : FW: Spectraquest Vs. XTK/XNS
> >
> > Ken, your analysis is not correct. There are tools that do common
> > mode radiation simulation besides Innoveda. Applied Simulation
> > Technology is one but there are others as well. Some of these
> > companies are smaller and less known but they are out there and
> > maybe worthy of investigation.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Ken Cantrell wrote:
> > >
> > > Donald,
> > > Correct me if I'm wrong (Jim), but SQuest, or any of the other
> > > vendors
> > other
> > > than Innoveda(Quiet Ext), only do a differential mode emissions
> analysis.
> > > This means that you are not able to analyze the Vcm created
> > > between the board and the cable(s), where most of your emissions
> > > issues come from. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-Innoveda either,
> > > I'm just a user. There
> > are
> > > issues with all of the packages. Innoveda XTK is antiquated and
> > > hard to use, plus you have to buy XTK to support Quiet and
> > > AC/Grade. They
> should
> > > have an XTK lite so that the user has a choice, or make Quiet and
> AC/Grade
> > > stand alone. SQuest, HyperLynx, and ICX are more user friendly,
> > > but
> > don't
> > > do common mode. HyperLynx (PADS and Innoveda merged, so HyperLynx
> > > is
> under
> > > the Innoveda banner now), deserves special note. If you are not
> designing
> > > chips, just doing boards, it is the most user friendly and
> > > intuitive
> tool
> > > out there, and it will do 90% of what you need to do at about 10%
> > > of the cost. If you are in a multiple product line,
> > > manufacturing driven situation, and are using Cadence, SQuest has
> > > a lot of elements that will make your life easier. They make the
> > > most highly integrated (with CAD,
> > Mfg,
> > > and design)package. I also like the agressive pricing that
> > > Cadence
> > started
> > > about a year ago. They give you a lot of bang for the buck. I
> > > haven't
> > had
> > > the chance to review Mentor ICX yet, hopefully later this month.
> > > I've
> had
> > > problems just getting the package in, both in Seattle and Springs.
> > > They seem to be responsive on the phone or e-mail, but there is a
> > > disconnect there somewhere. I have reviewed their FPGA sim pak,
> > > Advantage, and it
> is
> > > very good. Detailed, but easy to use. I'm hoping their SI pak is
> > > as
> > good.
> > > User to user, Donald, the EDA industry is extremely competitive
> > > right
> now.
> > > Each vendor leap-frogs the other just about every couple of months
> > > on feature sets. I used to go for getting everything from one
> > > vendor, but
> > now
> > > I'm mixing and matching, typically doing the one year lease
> > > instead of
> the
> > > lifetime buy.
> > > Ken
> > > Sim Manager
> > > SRC Computers
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
> > > [mailto:owner-si-list@silab.eng.sun.com]On Behalf Of Jim Freeman
> > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:53 PM To: Donald Telian Cc: May,
> > > John; 'si-list@silab.eng.sun.com' Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : FW:
> > > Spectraquest Vs. XTK/XNS
> > >
> > > The problem is that the Hspice models are using the M format.
> > >
> > > Jim Freeman
> > >
> > > Donald Telian wrote:
> > >
> > > > John,
> > > >
> > > > Answers for SPECCTRAQuest are below.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for asking,
> > > > Donald T.
> > > > CADENCE
> > > >
> > > > At 01:48 PM 9/25/00 -0400, May, John wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: May, John
> > > > >> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 1:20 PM
> > > > >> To: 'si-list@silba.eng.sun.com'
> > > > >> Subject: Spectraquest Vs. XTK/XNS
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hi all - My group is looking into purchasing one of these
> > > > >> tool
> suites
> > > for
> > > > >> SI analysis. I'm wondering what the tradeoffs and limitations
> > > > >> of
> each
> > > are.
> > > > >> For instance:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1) Can botth suites handle HSPICE models in a mixed
> > > > >> environment
> with
> > > IBIS
> > > > >> models?
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > > SPECCTRAQuest uses an optimized spice engine for analysis. As
> > > > such,
> all
> > > > types of spice models can be used with the exception of
> transistor-based
> > > > models (M elements). Naturally, IBIS models can be used as
> > > > well. If
> > you
> > > > want to use both IBIS and transistor-level IO models, we have a
> netlist
> > > > converter that will translate our proprietary spice netlist
> > > > (extracted
> > > from
> > > > PCB layouts or topology drawings) into a variety of other spice
> formats.
> > > >
> > > > >> 2) Do either of the tools have trouble with differential
> inputs(high
> > > and
> > > > >> low inputs used with a differential receiver)?
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > > SPECCTRAQuest has support for differential drivers and
> > > > receivers.
> > > >
> > > > >> 3) Connector stitching: How easy is it to use these tools for
> > > > >> going through connectors to model paths that traverse
> > > > >> multiple modules?
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > > It is quite simple to join multiple board layout files together
> > > > in SPECCTRAQuest for simulation. And that includes package
> > > > layout (.mcm) files as well. A variety of connector or cable
> > > > models can be easily
> > > placed
> > > > between the boards. The simplest being RLC or RLGC
> > > > representations,
> but
> > > > fully-coupled connector models can also be integrated into the
> > simulation.
> > > > This normally requires some re-formatting of the data from the
> connector
> > > > vendor, but it is not too hard to do assuming you understand how
> > > > to
> > build
> > > > and call spice subcircuits.
> > > >
> > > > >> John
> > > > >
> > > > >**** To unsubscribe from si-list or si-list-digest: send e-mail
> > > > >to majordomo@silab.eng.sun.com. In the BODY of message put:
> > > > >UNSUBSCRIBE si-list or UNSUBSCRIBE si-list-digest, for more
> > > > >help, put HELP. si-list archives are accessible at
> > > > >http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ****
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Donald Telian
> > > > Cadence Design Systems
> > > > phone: 408-944-7791
> > > > donaldt@cadence.com
> > > >
> > > > **** To unsubscribe from si-list or si-list-digest: send e-mail
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> > >
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> >
> > --
> > Fred Balistreri
> > fred@apsimtech.com
> >
> > http://www.apsimtech.com
> >
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>
> --
> Regards
>
> Mike
> ________________________________________________________________
> | Mike Ventham - Vice-President Engineering, |
> | Quantic EMC Inc Headquarters |
> | Croft House, Chilcompton, 191 Lombard Ave, Winnipeg, |
> | Somerset, UK, BA3 4JA Manitoba, Canada R3B 0X1 |
> | Tel: 44 (0)1761 232191 Tel: (204) 942 4000 |
> | Fax: 44 (0)1761 233549 Fax: (204) 957 1158 |
> | Email: ventham@quantic-emc.com http://www.quantic-emc.com |
>
>
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>

---------------------------------------------------------
Ralf Bruening-Product Manager-EMC-Center Paderborn
ZUKEN Board Integrity - Turning ideas into real products
Phone:+49(0)5251 150-600 Fax: -700 Cellular: 0172-9070675
email: rbruening@incases.com - WWW:http://www.incases.com
---------------------------------------------------------

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