RE: [SI-LIST] : FW: Spectraquest Vs. XTK/XNS

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From: Ken Cantrell (Ken.Cantrell@srccomp.com)
Date: Tue Oct 03 2000 - 10:58:04 PDT


Mike,
Thanks for the input. Always happy to look at new sources.
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Ventham [mailto:ventham@quantic-emc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 11:33 AM
To: Ken Cantrell
Cc: fred@apsimtech.com; Jim Freeman; Donald Telian; May, John;
si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : FW: Spectraquest Vs. XTK/XNS

Ken,

Just to confirm what Fred says about other companies' offerings.

Quantic also does both differential and common mode emissions as part of our
EMC Tool Compliance. You can get the emissions analysis and SI analysis
tools
integrated or separately, and you don't have to buy one to get the other.

Ken Cantrell wrote:
>
> Fred,
> Thanks for the heads up. I'll check Applied out. Does Applied have an
> integrated package, i.e., diff and common on emissions + SI tool suite, or
> is it a stand-alone field solver pack like EMS-Plus?
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fred@apsimtech.com [mailto:fred@apsimtech.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:33 AM
> To: Ken Cantrell
> Cc: Jim Freeman; Donald Telian; May, John; si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : FW: Spectraquest Vs. XTK/XNS
>
> Ken, your analysis is not correct. There are tools that do common mode
> radiation
> simulation besides Innoveda. Applied Simulation Technology is one but
> there are
> others as well. Some of these companies are smaller and less known but
> they are out
> there and maybe worthy of investigation.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Ken Cantrell wrote:
> >
> > Donald,
> > Correct me if I'm wrong (Jim), but SQuest, or any of the other vendors
> other
> > than Innoveda(Quiet Ext), only do a differential mode emissions
analysis.
> > This means that you are not able to analyze the Vcm created between the
> > board and the cable(s), where most of your emissions issues come from.
> > Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-Innoveda either, I'm just a user. There
> are
> > issues with all of the packages. Innoveda XTK is antiquated and hard to
> > use, plus you have to buy XTK to support Quiet and AC/Grade. They
should
> > have an XTK lite so that the user has a choice, or make Quiet and
AC/Grade
> > stand alone. SQuest, HyperLynx, and ICX are more user friendly, but
> don't
> > do common mode. HyperLynx (PADS and Innoveda merged, so HyperLynx is
under
> > the Innoveda banner now), deserves special note. If you are not
designing
> > chips, just doing boards, it is the most user friendly and intuitive
tool
> > out there, and it will do 90% of what you need to do at about 10% of the
> > cost. If you are in a multiple product line, manufacturing driven
> > situation, and are using Cadence, SQuest has a lot of elements that will
> > make your life easier. They make the most highly integrated (with CAD,
> Mfg,
> > and design)package. I also like the agressive pricing that Cadence
> started
> > about a year ago. They give you a lot of bang for the buck. I haven't
> had
> > the chance to review Mentor ICX yet, hopefully later this month. I've
had
> > problems just getting the package in, both in Seattle and Springs. They
> > seem to be responsive on the phone or e-mail, but there is a disconnect
> > there somewhere. I have reviewed their FPGA sim pak, Advantage, and it
is
> > very good. Detailed, but easy to use. I'm hoping their SI pak is as
> good.
> > User to user, Donald, the EDA industry is extremely competitive right
now.
> > Each vendor leap-frogs the other just about every couple of months on
> > feature sets. I used to go for getting everything from one vendor, but
> now
> > I'm mixing and matching, typically doing the one year lease instead of
the
> > lifetime buy.
> > Ken
> > Sim Manager
> > SRC Computers
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
> > [mailto:owner-si-list@silab.eng.sun.com]On Behalf Of Jim Freeman
> > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:53 PM
> > To: Donald Telian
> > Cc: May, John; 'si-list@silab.eng.sun.com'
> > Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : FW: Spectraquest Vs. XTK/XNS
> >
> > The problem is that the Hspice models are using the M format.
> >
> > Jim Freeman
> >
> > Donald Telian wrote:
> >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > Answers for SPECCTRAQuest are below.
> > >
> > > Thanks for asking,
> > > Donald T.
> > > CADENCE
> > >
> > > At 01:48 PM 9/25/00 -0400, May, John wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: May, John
> > > >> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 1:20 PM
> > > >> To: 'si-list@silba.eng.sun.com'
> > > >> Subject: Spectraquest Vs. XTK/XNS
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi all - My group is looking into purchasing one of these tool
suites
> > for
> > > >> SI analysis. I'm wondering what the tradeoffs and limitations of
each
> > are.
> > > >> For instance:
> > > >>
> > > >> 1) Can botth suites handle HSPICE models in a mixed environment
with
> > IBIS
> > > >> models?
> > > >>
> > >
> > > SPECCTRAQuest uses an optimized spice engine for analysis. As such,
all
> > > types of spice models can be used with the exception of
transistor-based
> > > models (M elements). Naturally, IBIS models can be used as well. If
> you
> > > want to use both IBIS and transistor-level IO models, we have a
netlist
> > > converter that will translate our proprietary spice netlist (extracted
> > from
> > > PCB layouts or topology drawings) into a variety of other spice
formats.
> > >
> > > >> 2) Do either of the tools have trouble with differential
inputs(high
> > and
> > > >> low inputs used with a differential receiver)?
> > > >>
> > >
> > > SPECCTRAQuest has support for differential drivers and receivers.
> > >
> > > >> 3) Connector stitching: How easy is it to use these tools for going
> > > >> through connectors to model paths that traverse multiple modules?
> > > >>
> > >
> > > It is quite simple to join multiple board layout files together in
> > > SPECCTRAQuest for simulation. And that includes package layout (.mcm)
> > > files as well. A variety of connector or cable models can be easily
> > placed
> > > between the boards. The simplest being RLC or RLGC representations,
but
> > > fully-coupled connector models can also be integrated into the
> simulation.
> > > This normally requires some re-formatting of the data from the
connector
> > > vendor, but it is not too hard to do assuming you understand how to
> build
> > > and call spice subcircuits.
> > >
> > > >> John
> > > >
> > > >**** To unsubscribe from si-list or si-list-digest: send e-mail to
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> > > >si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
> > > >****
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Donald Telian
> > > Cadence Design Systems
> > > phone: 408-944-7791
> > > donaldt@cadence.com
> > >
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> >
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> --
> Fred Balistreri
> fred@apsimtech.com
>
> http://www.apsimtech.com
>
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--
Regards

Mike ________________________________________________________________ | Mike Ventham - Vice-President Engineering, | | Quantic EMC Inc Headquarters | | Croft House, Chilcompton, 191 Lombard Ave, Winnipeg, | | Somerset, UK, BA3 4JA Manitoba, Canada R3B 0X1 | | Tel: 44 (0)1761 232191 Tel: (204) 942 4000 | | Fax: 44 (0)1761 233549 Fax: (204) 957 1158 | | Email: ventham@quantic-emc.com http://www.quantic-emc.com |

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