From: Scott McMorrow ([email protected])
Date: Tue Aug 01 2000 - 14:17:12 PDT
Lesley,
With the [Model Selector] keyword.
regards,
scott
lborbely wrote:
> Scott,
>
> How do they show that programmability in their IBIS models?
>
> Lesley Borbely
> Micron Technology
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott McMorrow [mailto:[email protected]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 1:12 PM
> > To: abe riazi
> > Cc: '[email protected]'
> > Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : Parallel Termination in Theory and Practice
> >
> >
> > Abe,
> >
> > There are some very nice buffers now available in some ASIC vendor's
> > families which have programmable parallel termination. You can
> > program the termination to have either a 50 ohm terminator or
> > not on inputs
> > and program drivers to have either a 50 ohm or 25 ohm source
> > impedance.
> > Both allow you to tailor the driver to end or middle of line
> > conditions.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > scott
> >
> >
> > abe riazi wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Chuck and Scott:
> > >
> > > Thank you very much for your interesting replies.
> > >
> > > Another important point related to topic of termination is
> > appraisal of internal vs. external termination. The internal
> > termination appears to offer advantages of eliminating the
> > need for external stubs and components. But this is achieved
> > at the price of sacrificing flexibility. For instance an IC
> > having internal series termination eliminates the need for an
> > external series resistor and the associated stub. But the
> > disadvantage is that series termination is suitable only for
> > certain routing topologies (such as point to point routing)
> > and not the right for choice for other types of topologies
> > (such as daisy-chain ). Similar reasoning applies to
> > internal parallel termination. Variations in the
> > characteristic impedance of the trace can be also better
> > dealt with by use of external terminators.
> > >
> > > What are your thoughts on this subject ?
> > >
> > > Thanks again.
> > > Abe
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chuck Hill [SMTP:[email protected]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:19 AM
> > > To: Scott McMorrow; abe riazi
> > > Cc: '[email protected]'
> > > Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : Parallel Termination in
> > Theory and Practice
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > Very good points from Scott. I'd like to add in regard to
> > point #4 that
> > > the stubs are also capacitively and inductively loaded. So
> > the stubs can
> > > resonate at frequencies far lower than the 1/4 or 1/2
> > wavelength value.
> > > When these resonances are lower in frequency than the bit rate, they
> > > contribute to pattern dependent jitter (as described in point #1).
> > > Remember that two capacitively (or inductively) loaded
> > stubs can resonate
> > > together as the transmission line performs an impedance
> > transformation.
> > >
> > > "Critical length" is used as a decision criterion to
> > separate a lumped
> > > parameter circuit from a distributed parameter circuit
> > model. Scott's
> > > comments address the limitations due to dispersion, loss in the
> > > transmission line. My comments raise the issue of
> > distributed circuit
> > > effects appearing much lower in frequency than would be
> > expected with
> > > oversimplified modeling.
> > >
> > > Since there are many other considerations, I apply the
> > critical length
> > > approximation with great care.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > > At 01:32 AM 8/1/00 -0700, Scott McMorrow wrote:
> > > >abe riazi wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Scott:
> > > >>
> > > >> The critical length Lc (rather than a specific
> > frequency or rise
> > > time) is often used as a yardstick for distinguishing lumped and
> > > distributed circuit elements and for setting acceptable
> > limits on stub
> > > lengths.
> > > >>
> > > >> Does concept of critical length break down at
> > frequencies above 1GHz?
> > > >
> > > >Abe,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Critical length is an interesting approximation. The
> > evaluation of what
> > > >is "critical" depends upon how much error can be tolerated in the
> > > >result when one is using a lumped circuit approach over a
> > distributed
> > > >one. There is always error when using lumped circuits to model
> > > >any sort of waveguide. For example, according to Christopoulous
> > > >in "The Transmission-Line Modeling Method TLM", page 24, if
> > > >lambda/10 is used as the size for lumped elements, there is
> > > >still almost a 2% error in the propagation delay of the
> > circuit over
> > > >the true distributed circuit. The breakdown comes in the size of
> > > >errors we can tolerate at high frequencies and the effects which
> > > >are masked by oversimplified modeling.
> > > >
> > > >Several things happen with high frequency signaling:
> > > >
> > > >1) the period is reduced, increasing the chances of intersymbol
> > > >interference occurring because of discontinuities in the line.
> > > >(i.e. - ringing and jitter spill over into the next bit
> > period.) This
> > > >translates into less overall margin.
> > > >
> > > >2) the edge rate is increased to support the higher signaling rate
> > > >which increases the bandwidth of the signals.
> > > >
> > > >3) the increased bandwidth of the signals causes a subsequent
> > > >increase in sensitivity of the circuit to discontinuities.
> > > >
> > > >4) the increased bandwidth of the signals can excite stubs into
> > > >operation at quarter wave resonances. ( large packages
> > > >like BGA's make for very nice stubs with a large discontinuity
> > > >at both ends. A capacitive discontinuity at the die and a
> > > >Z to Z/2 mismatch at the pin breakout when the device is
> > > >placed on a line terminated at the far end. This structure
> > > >forms a very nice resonator if excited with a high edge rate
> > > >source.) Hmmm ... I wonder what might happen at say ...
> > > >400 MHz with 800 Mb/s signaling on a bus with a single
> > > >parallel end terminator and one BGA driving another? This
> > > >might form two resonant circuits ... one from device to
> > > >device and the other from trace to package. Like this:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >BGA ----------------------------------terminator
> > > > | (package resonance)
> > > > BGA
> > > >
> > > >|<- resonant circuit ->|
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >5) these quarter wave resonant stubs can perturb signals
> > > >causing excessive jitter.
> > > >
> > > >6) Multiple stubs on a single line with nearly similar resonant
> > > >frequencies can form high frequency bandpass filters which
> > > >actually amplify the resonances. This will greatly increase
> > > >signal jitter and can cause high bit error rates which are
> > > >pattern sensitive. (If multiple devices of the same type and
> > > >package are daisy chained on a parallel terminated line
> > > >then it is most likely that the package interconnects have
> > > >nearly the same resonant frequency. This greatly increases
> > > >the chances of something bad happening.)
> > > >
> > > >7) Resonant points of all circuits involved can change
> > > >due to even and odd mode coupling to neighboring circuits.
> > > >This makes it even more interesting to diagnose and track in
> > > >operating systems.
> > > >
> > > >8) Unbalanced data coding as used in most computer systems
> > > >will cause large average DC level variations dependent upon the
> > > >data pattern being transmitted. These DC level variations
> > > >translate into decreased eye margin for differential signals
> > > >and increased timing jitter (skew) for non differential signals.
> > > >
> > > >9) A capacitor is not just a capacitor any more ... and this
> > > >includes die capacitance. Since all include some physical
> > > >length of interconnect to get to the capacitance there is a
> > > >delay and an associated inductance. Ignore the inductance
> > > >and the nifty little trace width impedance compensation circuit
> > > >that you might design will not work so nicely.
> > > >
> > > >10) There are little capacitors everywhere ... especially in
> > > >device pads and pad stacks. These little capacitors reflect
> > > >quite a bit of "stuff" when hit with fast edges. Removing
> > > >excessive capacitance in layouts removes a lot of excessive
> > > >jitter ... which is just a by product of "stuff" reflecting.
> > > >
> > > >These are some of the interesting effects at high frequencies that
> > > >can be easily ignored when moving up from SI engineering at lower
> > > >frequencies. The guys who have experience doing RF and Microwave
> > > >work have been used to these effects for years.
> > > >
> > > >A frequency domain sweep will uncover unwanted resonances
> > > >quite nicely ... and help to better understand what is happening
> > > >in the time domain. This is where transmission line simulators
> > > >like XTK, SpectraQuest, ICX and Hyperlynx fall short. These can
> > > >all do a good job of simulating in the time domain at high
> > frequencies
> > > >but can't perform simple AC sweeps. An AC sweep will often
> > > >explain why a circuit won't perform beyond a particular frequency
> > > >or why jitter can rise to unacceptable levels.
> > > >
> > > >This was a long winded answer to a simple question.
> > > >I hope it helps.
> > > >
> > > >best regards,
> > > >
> > > >scott
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Scott McMorrow
> > > >Principal Engineer
> > > >SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering
> > > >18735 SW Boones Ferry Road
> > > >Tualatin, OR 97062-3090
> > > >(503) 885-1231
> > > >http://www.siqual.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> >
> > --
> > Scott McMorrow
> > Principal Engineer
> > SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering
> > 18735 SW Boones Ferry Road
> > Tualatin, OR 97062-3090
> > (503) 885-1231
> > http://www.siqual.com
> >
> >
> >
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> >
-- Scott McMorrow Principal Engineer SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering 18735 SW Boones Ferry Road Tualatin, OR 97062-3090 (503) 885-1231 http://www.siqual.com**** To unsubscribe from si-list or si-list-digest: send e-mail to [email protected]. In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE si-list or UNSUBSCRIBE si-list-digest, for more help, put HELP. si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ****
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