From: Jim Freeman ([email protected])
Date: Mon May 22 2000 - 09:18:08 PDT
Is this a reason to go to a more expensive material or a more controlled material?
Jim Freeman
Scott McMorrow wrote:
> Steve,
>
> The assumption here is that the dielectric is homogeneous for both
> signals of a pair routed the same length in different geographic
> areas. This assumption is false for FR4 in particular.
> (The dielectric constant of FR4 as seen by a trace is highly dependent
> upon the orientation of the trace over fiberglass bundles and the direction
> of the "grain". Since fiberglass is porous, the water content of different areas
> of the board varies. This variation can cause large differences in Er and
> the accompanying velocity of propagation.) It is more
> likely that the dielectric can be considered homogeneous for tightly
> coupled side-by-side differential pairs than it can for weakly coupled
> differential pairs. It is generally most homogeneous for broadside
> differential pairs, however, manufacturing tolerance issues preclude
> their use ... except for those who have the time and money to
> control the manufacturing process.
>
> Otherwise ...
> weak coupling will subject the pair to susceptability from other
> coupling sources. This coupling will cause differential skew.
> This differential skew can be decomposed into a differential
> component and a common mode component. The net effect is
> that differential skew due to either mis-matched trace velocities
> or additional coupling sources will cause voltage jitter in
> the received signal at the differential crossing. This jitter has the effect
> of reducing the CMRR of the system. Not to mention that it
> looks "yucky" on an eye diagram.
>
> Recently, we have worked with drivers that exhibit a launched edge
> rate of 110 ps into the center of a 50 ohm line. It only takes 60 ps of differential
> skew to never see a differenial crossing, no matter what the source
> of that skew is ... whether driver
> ... or unmatched lines
> ... or outside non-symmetric coupling source
> ... or receiver.
>
> Any skew causes reduction in receiver voltage margins and causes
> eye closure.
>
> I think I'll place my best design bets on tight coupling of side-to-side
> differential pairs with large gaps (3X or more) from one set of differential pairs
> to another.
>
> I happen to enjoy good clean differential crossings.
>
> best regards,
>
> scott
>
> --
> Scott McMorrow
> Principal Engineer
> SiQual, Signal Quality Engineering
> 18735 SW Boones Ferry Road
> Tualatin, OR 97062-3090
> (503) 885-1231
> http://www.siqual.com
>
> "S. Weir" wrote:
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > How do you propose to get the differential coupling much above 15% so as to
> > make the differential coupling dominant over the single-ended coupling?
> >
> > I agree with your point that it is delay matching that we want, but I think
> > that with certain reasonably valid assumptions, Lee's assertion that
> > matched length realizes matched delay holds. Given that it would be very
> > naive to either mix a stripline and microstrip, or use unequal single-ended
> > impedances on the pair, aside from etching tolerances, the velocities will
> > be equal.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Steve.
> > At 02:00 PM 5/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> > >You need to generalize length matching to flight time matching for this
> > >to
> > >be true. If two differential signals have matched length but differ
> > >only
> > >in their spacings to the ground plane which is their signal return plane
> > >then
> > >the two signals will have different propagation velocities and hence
> > >different flight times even though their physical lengths are matched.
> > >
> > >The easiest way to match the propagation velocities is to have the two
> > >signals tightly coupled.
> > >
> > >The tight coupling will dominate over the coupling to other conductors
> > >in the PCB. So this dominate tight coupling will determine the
> > >propagation
> > >velocity instead of the coupling to other conductors. The dominate
> > >tight
> > >coupling is inherently balanced between the two signals, hence the
> > >propagation velocities are inherently balanced. The same cannot be said
> > >for
> > >two independently routed signals.
> > >
> > >Also the variations in the PCB will usually affect both signals equally
> > >and
> > >hence equally affect their propagation velocities.
> > >
> > >Jim
> > >
> > >Ritchey Lee wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Differential signalling doesn't by definition, or any other rule, depend on
> > > > tight coupling for proper operation. Length matching is the only
> > > parameter that
> > > > really counts. Sure, you need to make sure that noise doesn't couple
> > > into the
> > > > pair differentially. Sid by side routing does not guarantee that on a
> > > PCB. On
> > > > the contrary, side by side routing in a PCB will aslways result in
> > > differential
> > > > noise coupling.
> > > >
> > > > Common mode noise coupling only occurs when the field strength of the
> > > inducing
> > > > signal is the same in both wires. This cannot occur in a PCB when the
> > > inducer
> > > > is on the same layer as the pair.
> > > >
> > > > Lee
> > > >
> > > > Weston Beal wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Brian,
> > > > >
> > > > > By definition, differential signals should be tightly coupled. This
> > > implies
> > > > > close spacing. This does not necessarily mean that the seperation
> > > should be
> > > > > minimized. You need to do some analysis to decide the stackup,
> > > width, and
> > > > > space that creates the differential impedance that is correct for your
> > > > > design.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Weston
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: [email protected]
> > > > > [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Brian Seol
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 9:38 AM
> > > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > > Subject: [SI-LIST] : Differential Clock Signal Pair
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a simple question about trace layout design for a differential
> > > clock
> > > > > signal pair of high-speed CMOS memory packages. I have two design
> > > > > guidelines for that as follows:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. SPACING between a differential clock signal trace pair must be
> > > > > MINIMIZED as well as matched in length in order to reduce noise.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Differential clock signal trace pair must be matched in length in
> > > order
> > > > > to achieve matched electrical characteristics, but SPACING between
> > > > > them must be MAXIMIZED in order to reduce crosstalk noise.
> > > > >
> > > > > Which do you prefer?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks and regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> > >
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