From: Ron Miller (rmiller@Brocade.COM)
Date: Wed May 17 2000 - 14:08:56 PDT
I cannot agree with your precept that we cannot simulate random jitter.
One of the biggest contributors is thermal noise which varys the voltage
amplitude, so at the crossover it causes jitter in the waveform. Shot noise
and similar noise sources as well as assumed EMI received on traces can
be estimated and added to thermal noise. I think HSPICE has a means to
add this in. ADS does for sure.
OTHER RANDOM JITTER SOURCES
The clock generator has random jitter but is usually specified as phase
and is usually ~10 ps or there about.
Digital gates can phase modulate the signal edge, but this is usually quite
small and is caused by amplitude variations in the ICs caused again by noise
and also by crosstalk with other signals at the gate levels.
These are all secondary effects and are small. Random noise is the big
in random jitter, and can be simulated.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Sweeney
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 10:16 AM
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org.Sun.COM
> Subject: [SI-LIST] : Point to Point Timing Budget and BER
> I have been working on several point to point applications using various
> buffers and over various transmission line length. HPSPICE is being used
> to model:
> Output Buffer
> Bondwires (coupled)
> Package Model (coupled)
> Board Vias (lumped)
> Transmission line (W model coupled)
> Board Vias
> Input Buffer
> On chip power distribution is modeled for a group of outputs for SSO
> A seperate clock path is also modeled and simulated with the data
> Simulations are run over process, volatage and temp corners.
> Different pattern sets are used to evaluate SSO, and Crosstalk. The
> cross talk pattern is modified with the middle trace getting an Pseudo
> Random Pattern. ISI is measured at the far end.
> In the end, eye patterns are generated and we can see the margin in
> setup and hold times.
> The question is: Given we cannot simulate Random Jitter, how much margin
> do you need to garuntee a very low BER? Can you mathmatically predict
> BER based on a deterministic Jitter Budget?
> If you have very small margin let's say 10ps with your deterministic
> budget, does that mean you will have a high BER?
> Anthony C. Sweeney
> Field Applications Engineer
> LSI Logic Corporation
> 7585 Ronson Road
> San Diego, CA 92111
> Ph: 858-467-6980
> Fax: 858-496-0548
> Pager: 888-961-7562
> **** To unsubscribe from si-list or si-list-digest: send e-mail to
> email@example.com. In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE
> si-list or UNSUBSCRIBE si-list-digest, for more help, put HELP.
> si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
**** To unsubscribe from si-list or si-list-digest: send e-mail to
firstname.lastname@example.org. In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE
si-list or UNSUBSCRIBE si-list-digest, for more help, put HELP.
si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Nov 22 2000 - 10:50:22 PST