# RE: [SI-LIST] : Zo for HCT

From: Volk, Andrew M ([email protected])
Date: Sat Oct 23 1999 - 15:28:01 PDT

Johnni -

I agree completely with Mike's analysis of the "equivalent" output impedance

of the driver. And if you know the actual I-V characteristics, you can
calculate the impedance from the curves. The trouble is that the published
numbers in the data sheet are the guaranteed drive levels at a particular
level and does not characterize the actual output strength which changes
with processing, temperature and supply voltage. Since the published
numbers cover the worst case, the typical strength will be quite a bit
higher (lower effective impedance). Putting a series resistor on the output

is one way to wash out these variations and better match the drive
impedance.
You see this done on practically all clock drivers on PC motherboards to
control signal overshoot and skew.

Regards,

Andrew Volk
Intel Corp.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Degerstrom [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 6:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] : Zo for HCT

Johnni,

On Oct 22, 2:37pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Subject: [SI-LIST] : Zo for HCT
>
> Hi all,
>
> Can one find Zo of the 74HCT245 from: HIGH (typ): (Vcc-Voh)/Ioh =
(4.5-4.22)/6m
> = 30 ohm,
> LOW (typ): Vol/Iol = 0.16/6m = 26.67 ohm ?

are not valid. However, I also think your impedances are fairly
close to what I would define for the 'effective' output impedance
for most '245 parts.

When I want to use a buffer such as the '245 in a design, I order
a few parts, put one on a small pcb with good quality ground AND
power planes (with a decoupling cap). Next I add a small high frequency pot
as an adjustable series resistor between a '245 output pin and
a short section of 50 ohm coax. The coax is then put directly into
a high impedance channel of an oscilloscope. I then adjust the
pot to get the waveform to switch as cleanly as possible from
GND to VDD.

Looking back through my notes, it appears that we were actually
testing a 74LVT244 part. The pot was adjusted to 32 ohms for the cleanest
output into a 50 ohm coax. With the pot at 32 ohms there was a
little undershoot on the LOW to HIGH transition and a little overshoot
on the HIGH to LOW transition meaning that the HIGH state impedance
was higher than the LOW state impedance.

One could say that the effective output impedance of the '244 is
about 50-32=18 ohms. However, I would be suprised if these
outputs have a linear impedance response with respect to the
characteristice impedance of the interconnect.

> Is it possible to use the Zo of the 74HCT245 as source terminator for a
trace
of
> 30 ohms ? Is it wise ?
> Should one choose an other trace impedance ?
> Tracks are on a daughter card and will be both point to piont and point to
> multipoint (databus),
> the CPU on the mainbord is running 33 MHz clock.
>

You can use a lower impedance (than 50 ohms) to match your '245 but
you have to use the technique I mentioned above to determine the
matching impedance. If you have IBIS models, then you can simply
simulate using trial and error to determine the best Zo to achieve
the cleanest signals.

> Is there a better way to terminate tracks (74HCT245 can't drive an end
> termision) ?
> - e.g. choose an other device family and use end termination.

You can still get clean signals using the approach that I mentioned
above. End termination will collapse the swing and I assume your
inputs were design for full-swing voltage.

Mike

>
>
> Regards,
>
> Johnni
>
>
>
> **** To unsubscribe from si-list: send e-mail to
[email protected]
In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE si-list, for more help, put HELP.
si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu/si-list ****
>
>-- End of excerpt from [email protected]

```--
_______________________________________________________________
Mike Degerstrom         Email:    [email protected]
Mayo Clinic
200 1st Street SW
Gugg. Bldg. RM 1042A                 Phone:    (507) 284-3292
Rochester, MN 55905                    FAX:    (507) 284-9171
WWW:  http://www.mayo.edu/sppdg/sppdg_home_page.html
_______________________________________________________________
**** To unsubscribe from si-list: send e-mail to
[email protected] In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE
si-list, for more help, put HELP.  si-list archives are accessible at
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu/si-list ****
**** To unsubscribe from si-list: send e-mail to [email protected] In the BODY of message put: UNSUBSCRIBE si-list, for more help, put HELP.  si-list archives are accessible at http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu/si-list ****
```

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Feb 29 2000 - 11:39:19 PST