Re: [SI-LIST] : Physcially-small far-end LVDS terminations?

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From: Jim Freeman (freeman@broadcom.com)
Date: Tue Dec 21 1999 - 13:37:26 PST


I guess you answered your own question. Anyone who tries to separate signal integrity and emc as separate issues are bound to eventually go to the hades
of emc compliance.

Jim Freeman

Charles Bishop wrote:

> You say "for a reflection free system...". Who wants a reflection free system? As long as there
> are no differential reflections, and as long as all receivers on the line reject common-mode,
> what little common-mode signal there is can bounce back-and-forth all day for all I care. Of
> course for low EMI and cross-talk we'd like no common-mode at all, but that's a different issue.
>
> Charlie Bishop
>
> >
> > I strongly disagree. The differential impedance for the line is definitely needed. Otherwise,
> there will be reflections at the terminator/transmission line interface for the differential mode of
> the signal. The common mode will not be affected because the approach you suggest will handle the
> common mode. For a reflection free system, BOTH 50 ohm transmission lines and 100 ohm differential
> impedance for the transmission line is required along with a 100 ohm tremination across the
> differential pair.
> >
> > Jim Freeman
> >
> > Lee Ritchey wrote:
> >
> > > Jon,
> > >
> > > That's exactly why the 100 ohm resistor is needed. It's not a differential impedance matching
> device, it is intended to be two 50 ohm resistors terminating two 50 ohm lines to Vref. When this
> is done, the net current flowing in the Vref pin is zero, so the connection is omitted.
> > >
> > > 100 ohm differential impedance is not needed. Make each line a good 50 ohm line.
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > > Jon Powell wrote:
> > >
> > > > Though I could easily be wrong, I don't believe that the below is true. My understanding of
> LVDS is that it requires ~100 ohm termination across the differential receiver in order to generate
> the required signal voltage.
> > > >
> > > > regards,
> > > > jon
> > > >
> > > > Jim Freeman wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Eric,
> > > > > Another answer would be to ensure that the differential impedance of the board between
> the differential pairs is 100 ohms. Then you wouldn't need the resistors. I have performed Hspice
> sims on this and it works fine if the stackup/trace spacing is correct.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim Freeman
> > > > >
> > > > > Eric Goodill wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I want to use the typical LVDS termination where you have two 50-ohm resistors in series
> placed between the two lines of the LVDS diff. pair and also have a cap at the junction of the
> resistors to ground. I have a jillion LVDS pairs to terminate at a high-pin-count ASIC, and I'm
> looking to squeeze more terminations per square inch. (There's no hope of putting the terminations
> inside the ASIC at this point.) I'm hoping some company makes a single three-pin part the has those
> two resistors and a cap even if not specifically for termination use.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How about any other ideas for even higher density?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards, Eric
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Eric Goodill
> > > > > > Siara Systems, ericg@siara.com
> > > > > >
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> > > > --
> > > > Jon Powell
> > > > Director of HSSD Consulting Services
> > > > Viewlogic Systems, INC.
> > > > 805 988 8250
> > > >
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