Re: [SI-LIST] : W element correlation with measured data

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From: Dmitri Kuznetsov (
Date: Mon Dec 13 1999 - 11:50:17 PST

IMAPS presentation by Jim Foppiano has comprehensive comparison of
measured time-domain waveforms and W-element simulations for a Gigabit
transceiver design, including long cables and traces.

A pointer to the presentation was posted on the SI list few months ago,
I included a copy below. It is still available for download.

Dmitri Kuznetsov
The W-element Developer

Re: [SI-LIST] : IMAPS Presentation on Simulating Fibre Channel Loss
From: Tarek Ali - WGS Board Design Technology <Tarek.Ali@East.Sun.COM>


        If anyone needs to download the imaps presentation please access
my freedrive account at

        login: tarek
        password: tarek

        And you can download the ppt file from the imaps folder.
        Most email systems will not permit files above 5 Meg, and this
file is 10 Meg.


                                Tarek Ali

Bradley S Henson wrote:
> Hi Ron,
> I can only speak to the fact that the frequency dependent parameters are now
> included and look substantially more real. I have not stayed put in one job long
> enough to actually have my folks characterize this for me! We have some work
> going on now, but nothing as well designed as I'd specify. The results will
> likely not be sharable due to the funding source :( Again, I don't think anyone
> will miss this data much at all since it appears to me to be way too superficial
> and poorly designed from an experimental viewpoint.
> If I get a chance to compare 'W' elements to measured data I'll share with the
> list anything publishable. Unfortunately, I have nothing in the works right
> now...
> Brad Henson
> Ron Miller <rmiller@Brocade.COM> on 12/10/99 11:26:13 AM
> Hi Brad
> I am using HP ADS a frequency domain simulator with Impulse, a real time
> convolution
> to the time domain with time domain models mixed in. I started using this
> because of the
> problem with spice not modeling frequency dependent losses properly for some
> cable losses.
> The ADS simulations matched the measured results very nicely. However, the
> problem
> with ADS is that the simulations take a long time to run when converting back to
> the time
> domain, so they are a bit slow and expecially when having large spice circuits
> driving and
> receiving the signals.
> My question is, does the W element simulations closely match the measured
> results of
> cable and long PCB traces?
> Thanks
> Ron Miller

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