Re: [SI-LIST] : skin effect and transmission line simulators

fabrizio zanella (fabrizio=zanella%eng%emchop1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com)
Mon, 8 Sep 97 7:52:01 -0400

Dimitri, you say Hspice has IBIS capability. Can you tell me how it does
so? What software does Avant! provide to convert HSPICE models into IBIS
format?
Thank you,
Fabrizio Zanella
Sr. Design Engineer
Hardware Engineering
_/ _/ email:
zanella_fabrizio@emc.com
_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ voice: (508) 435-1000 Ext.
4645
_/ _/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ Fax: (508) 435-8949
_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/
_/ _/ _/ _/ EMC Corporation
_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ 171 South Street
Hopkinton, MA 01748-9103
-------------
Original Text
From: "Dmitri Kuznetsov" <vdm@iname.com>, on 9/5/97 3:47 PM:
To: smtp@Eng@EMCHOP1["Chris Simon" <simon@mcc.com>]
Cc: smtp@Eng@EMCHOP1[<si-list@silab.Eng.Sun.COM>],
smtp@Eng@EMCHOP1["Jonathan Smith" <jonathan@pnc.com>]

Chris,

Hspice 97.1 and later has very fast lossy multiconductor
frequency-dependent transmission line model (W element). There is no
limit on the number of coupled conductors, and both skin-effect and
frequency-dependent dielectric loss are ACCURATELY modeled in the time
domain.

Hspice has IBIS capability, and, of course, transmission lines can be
terminated with arbitrary nonlinear devices.

If you have unexpired Hspice technical maintenance, you can get Hspice
with W element free of charge.

Regards,
-- Dmitri

=======================================================
Dmitri Kuznetsov, Ph.D.
R&D Engineer

Avant! Corporation e-mail: vdm@avanticorp.com
46871 Bayside Pkwy. Tel: (510)413-8631
Fremont, CA 94538 Fax: (510)413-7706
=======================================================

Jonathan Smith wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> The Pacific Numerix toolsuite can handle all five of the requirements
that
> you specified.
>
>
> On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Chris Simon wrote:
>
> > I am looking for a time domain lossy transmission line simulator for
> > digital signals with bit rates of 1Gbit/sec and higher. I would like
to
> > get information on simulators that you have experince with.
> >
> > The simulator I'm looking for should include all of the following:
> > 1. The results can be viewed in the time domain.
> > 2. Transmission line models that include series resistance and
> > inductance which are functions of frequency to ACCURATELY model skin
> > effect. (i.e., a frequency dependent line model that is used to get
time
> > domain simulation results)
>
> The SPICE simulator from Pacific Numerix does accurately model
> lossy dispersive lines including the frequency dependent resistance and
> dielectric conductance for dielectric loss.
> All frequency-dependent parasitics (RLGC) are produced
> automatically from any layout tool database, in 2-D or 3-D.
>
> > 3. SPICE CMOS models and/or IBIS type non-linear models can be
used
> > as drivers and receivers
>
> Of course, Pacific Numerix provides a tool that converts the data
> from IBIS information sheets into Pacific Numerix SPICE models, and these
> can be used in the SPICE simulation. Where a higher level of accuracy is
> needed, the Pacific Numerix tool can automatically generate and run the
> SPICE of your choice, for instance whatever SPICE version you may have
> transistor-level driver/receivers from.
>
> Jonathan Smith
> Consulting Engineer
> www.pnc.com
>
> > 4. Arbitrary driver data patterns can be used (i.e., not limited
to
> > repetative signals)
> >
> > There is one other criteria, but I'm not certain that this one is
required
> > for signals with 150 to 200 pSec rise and fall times. Any opinions?
> > 5. Includes the effect of dielectric losses.
> >
> > I am aware of several products that claim to meet these critria. Upon
> > close inspection several of the lossy line models didn't really meet
number
> > 2. This seems to be the tough one.
> > I am going to take a detailed look at Microwave Design System (MDS)
from
> > Hewlett-Packard, although someone told me that the current version
doesn't
> > meet number 3 above.
> > I would be interested in hearing which of the above criteria are met by
> > other tools, or whether a future revision will incorporate these
features.
> > If you know how the following tools stack up, especially with regard to
> > number 2, I would appreciate hearing from you.
> > Quad Design, Quantic, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics, Pacific Numerix,
> > Cadence SigNoise, ApSim/Contec, EMC-workbench, others?
> >
> > Chris Simon