RE: [SI-LIST] : Plane short

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From: Muranyi, Arpad (arpad.muranyi@intel.com)
Date: Mon Apr 30 2001 - 12:23:21 PDT


Mike,

No, you didn't miss anything. I must have gotten confused by the
company and product names, or forgot which link I clicked on. It's
still Monday morning...

Arpad
=================================================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Nudelman [mailto:mnudelman@tellium.com]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 11:43 AM
To: 'Muranyi, Arpad'; si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] : Plane short

Arpad,

This "Three or four probing operations are generally sufficient to bring you
within 2 or 3mm of the short, at which point all four LEDs illuminate to
confirm success. The fault-tracing process is accompanied by an audio tone
which rises in frequency as the short is approached, together with a digital
display of relative distance which enables extremely accurate shorts
location. " is from this location:

http://www.polarinstruments.com/

And the device in it is "The Toneohm 950 " which is the tabletop type
device.

Jason was talking of this one "CT 100"

http://www.toneohm.com/

And the appnote says this

"Mark the connected point with the circuit marker provided.
Repeat the process until all points are determined.

Knowing all the interconnections, you can make an informed judgement of the
order in which to substitute parts. The problem is likely to be a
semiconductor device, but change a diode or transistor first rather than a
complex SMD etc.
"

Had I missed something somwhere?

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:arpad.muranyi@intel.com]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:40 PM
To: si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] : Plane short

Mike,

I just looked at the Toneohem web site and the device description
says:

"Three or four probing operations are generally sufficient to
bring you within 2 or 3mm of the short, at which point all
four LEDs illuminate to confirm success. The fault-tracing
process is accompanied by an audio tone which rises in
frequency as the short is approached, together with a
digital display of relative distance which enables
extremely accurate shorts location. "

So there is more than just a beep.

Arpad Muranyi
Intel Corporation
================================================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Nudelman [mailto:mnudelman@tellium.com]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:10 AM
To: 'Stubbs, Jason'; si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] : Plane short

Jason,

No, it is not.

It is pretty much the same as the "Squealer" or Short Finder by Wavetek. It
will just produse a beep when you encounter a short. But it will not variate
the tone to show how close to the real short you are.

I actually built a schematic that will do what I want and I consider to make
the device myself, but for that I'll have to buy a cheap logic probe,
cannibalize it, put a dual-wire probe into it, spend a day in the lab
building the schematic and ordering part (some op-amps, some 9V battery
holders, small speakers, resistors etc). And I did have that device in one
of the companies I worked for.

And it worked GREAT! Why, why did they stopped making it! Oh, woe to us, to
poor wretched engineers!

Mike.

-----Original Message-----
From: Stubbs, Jason [mailto:Jason.Stubbs@marconi.com]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 10:20 AM
To: si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] : Plane short

Is this what you're looking for???

http://www.toneohm.com/

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Nudelman [mailto:mnudelman@tellium.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 9:00 AM
> To: 'Bastola, Subas'; si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
> Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] : Plane short
>
>
> 1. Method One. If your power supply is capable of providing
> undervoltage
> protection without pulsing (pumping more or less large
> constant current
> through the short) - measure the voltage drop gradient and
> find the short.
> Works for me.
>
> 2. Method Two. Using milliohmmeter and "Freeze" spray, find
> the place that
> reacts "violently" (rapidly changing resistance) while
> sprayed. This is
> likely (80-90%) to be the spot where short is. Also works for me.
>
> 3. There used to be a hand-held device on the market, size of
> a logic probe,
> that produced variable tone depending on the closeness to the
> shorted spot.
> Took me 2-3 minutes max to find the exact location (required
> good hearing -
> I have an absolute pitch).
> Problem - I've been trying to locate the device
> unsuccessfully for 4 years
> now. Seems like they either withdrew it due to the lack of
> demand or I do
> not know where to look.
>
> IF ANYONE KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE PSE LET ME KNOW - WILL BE
> FOREVER IN YOUR
> DEBT! :-))))
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bastola, Subas [mailto:subas.bastola@intel.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 11:56 PM
> To: si-list@silab.eng.sun.com
> Subject: [SI-LIST] : Plane short
>
>
> What is the best method to find the location of a short
> between the power
> and gnd plane in a fully assembled board? Can TDR help?
>
> Subas Bastola
> Intel
>
>
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