+++++++++++++++++++ This is a good debate.... +++++++++++++++++++ From: "Ferguson, Kevin" To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:48:28 -0700 Subject: [Elecraft] To inventory or not: My name is Kevin, and I don't count parts. I built a K2 and all available options without inventorying anything. I reasoned that I would have 1-2 hours per day available to work on the kits, and not every day at that. At that rate, I would use something like 3-4 days to inventory the kit. Not only that, but this is exactly the sort of mindless, meticulus task I don't enjoy, and I am really poor at. If I found something missing, what time would be saved? I'd still have to secure the part locally or order it from elecraft. Then I'd have to search through the manual to see where it was used, to decide if I should start or wait for the replacement to come. I decided I'd be time ahead even if I had to completely halt construction when a missing part was discovored. So I started building earlier by that 3-4 days. I did pre-sort the capacitors out by value, but did not check quantity or for missing values. That took about an hour to do that for the basic K2, and maybe 10-15 minutes each for the options. Used muffin tins and fly-tying organizers (similar to notions boxes sold in fabric stores) if anyone cares. Oh yeah, a shallow cookie sheet works well for pouring all the parts out of the bag and sorting them out. So for a K2 and ALL options (except the 100W PA for some reason!) I had one missing silver mica cap in the ATU kit. I found a lower voltage rated one in my junk box and pressed on. The replacement from elecraft showed up in a couple of days, and I spent about 1/2 hour swapping it out, chassis screw to chassis screw. I also had a few caps left over. So I spent about 10 minutes verifying that all the empty holes on the circuit boards were supposed to be empty. So in the balance, I traded less than an hour of not unpleasant tasks, for several hours of mindless drudgery. A good swap I'd say. That said, if someone is unfamilier with what the various components look like, then the inventory is certainly a good place to close that gap in essential ham knowlege. I guess I'd bother with an inventory if I was then going to take the thing to Mars or Antartica to actually build it, but otherwise it seems an pointless exercise....like mail, I only want to touch those parts once if possible! 73 ko0b +++++++++++++++++ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:40:00 -0800 From: Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft Organization: Elecraft To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] To inventory or not: The primary reason we ask you to inventory the kit first is to determine if there are any missing parts up front. That way we can get them to you before you reach the step to install them :^). There's nothing worse than finding a missing part late at night when you have a good soldering run going! Also, it avoids us getting multiple requests for parts if more than one is missing from the kit. This saves us a lot in time and postage.. And definitely do not remove the resistors from the ordered tape until you install them. 73, Eric WA6HHQ ++++++++++++++++++ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:51:11 -0700 To: "Ferguson, Kevin" , elecraft at mailman.qth.net From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22D=2ER=2E_Weiss_KI=D8RP=22?= Subject: Re: [Elecraft] To inventory or not: I'd like to represent the opposing point of view. For me, the inventorying part was time well spent. I saw three great advantages to doing the inventory -- 1. I was not familiar with what all the parts looked like, so the inventory fixed that. 2. When I got midway through a build and couldn't find a part, one thing I could be sure of was that the part was somewhere on my workbench. 3. The inventory allowed me to note component values that differed from the instructions. This was very valuable in the middle of a build when I was looking for one thing but had a slightly different thing available. So to anyone questioning the value of the inventory step, I'd have to say think twice before skipping it. Dave Weiss KI0RP At 12:48 PM 3/26/02 -0700, Ferguson, Kevin wrote: >My name is Kevin, and I don't count parts. +++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:46:03 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Rattray To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22D=2ER=2E_Weiss_KI=D8RP=22?= Cc: "Ferguson, Kevin" , Subject: Re: [Elecraft] To inventory or not: I can understand the "urge" not to inventory and "get on with it"...I've had that urge many times and I had it with my K2, which is nearing completion... BUT, I am one of those people who, even though I do the inventory and will always do the inventory, I can still and usually do goof and wind up short of a 100% job....then, I count on the experience of doing the actual "build" to help me work it all out right, the right parts in the right spot, in the end... =2E..I guess it's the old story; whatever works for you.... =2E.72/73 - Bruce (VE5RC+VE5QRP) QRP-C#1 QRP-L#886 ARCI#9683 Zombie#272 +++++++++++++++++++ Subject: RE: [Elecraft] parts storage Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:32:57 -0500 To: "Rich Lentz" , "Ben Dalfen" , From: Bill Coleman On 3/25/02 8:09 PM, Rich Lentz at ke0zx at cox.net wrote: >I may be having brain failure, but as I recall all of the resistors for the >K2 came on a machine insertion strip in the order for installation, why >"sort" these out???. I agree with this point. When I built my K2 recently, I skipped the inventory of resistors. >As for the capacitors I sorted them by multiplier and >type only, and then put each group in small plastic 4 oz containers like >yogurt or ice-cream. I put mine in like groups carefully in Acro-mills bins. (My workbench has a gob of these already) I used about 7 bins for the K2. About 4 for the KSB2. >Did not inventory any of the parts for the K2 or any of the six options and >was only "shorted" two capacitors on the K160RX. Elecraft has EXCELLENT >Quality Control - isn't worth the waste of your time to "inventory," IMHO. I disagree. One important point of the inventory is to familiarise yourself with all the components. Some components may bit a bit different than called for in the manual (eg the 2R7 caps). Some may be unexpected. (The FT22 toroids in the KSB2 looked like fiber washers to me at first) Inventory is a good exercise. That way, if something is missing, you can tell Elecraft and have a part on the way before you get to the build step that requires it. It also helps when you get to the end of construction and find you have an extra component. (Why do you have an extra? Did Elecraft ship an extra, or did you miss something?) >The thing I would most highly recommend is to get a red pencil and make a >second check at the end of each page for correct part, placement, polarity, >alignment, soldering, etc. It is easier to see these things before the >whole board is stuffed. I actually did this with a black, red, and blue >pencil. Yes, that's right, two checks plus the check as recommended at the >end of each section. So that I had four check marks on each step when >finished. This is somewhat to excess, but not bad advice. On the other hand, I built mine with a single check mark technique, and everything worked the first time (with the exception of the stingy S-meter problem). Double-checking is a good idea. I pour over assembled boards to see that component leads are clipped down properly. I'm amazed at how many potential lead bridges I find. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr at arrl.net Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 +++++++++++++++++++ From: "Francis Belliveau" To: "K2 List" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] To inventory or not: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:44:51 -0500 On: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 3:51 PM "D.R. Weiss KIØRP" wrote > I'd like to represent the opposing point of view. For me, the inventorying > part was time well spent. I saw three great advantages to doing the > inventory -- > Dave missed one thing that I found very important. When I had parts left over I didn't have to guess what I had done wrong, I knew which were needed and which were not. Inventory time was also used for sorting. Fran +++++++++++++++++++ From: "NB1B" To: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:01:32 -0500 Subject: [Elecraft] To Inventory or Not.... I'm one that weighs in with the need to inventory. Just as someone suggested, I inventoried each bag of parts and then put everything back in that bag. I didn't separate them at the initial inventory; that took place when I got ready to build each board. The biggest problem I had was with the caps for the RF board; I just can't read the numbers on those blue caps! I tried to, and after 30 minutes of only getting half way thru the stack I had a splitting headache. Were all the parts there? My first inventory of the RF board caps left me with about a dozen caps that didn't fit any description in the manual, with about a dozen missing caps. So I re-read the manual (page 9 in particular) and did another inventory. I found I had misread the numbers on some of the caps, and misinterpreted the values on some of the caps I did see. Not only am I glad that I did this, but no when I go to put in a part- regardless of what bin it comes from- I double check it before I solder it. That hasn't stopped me from making a few construction mistakes, but its a lot easier to catch a mistake in construction then to determine the wrong part was installed after you're done and it doesn't work! Dennis NB1B K2 #2563 ++++++++++++++++ Reply-To: "Don Wilhelm" From: "Don Wilhelm" To: "Ferguson, Kevin" , Subject: Re: [Elecraft] To inventory or not: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:22:32 -0500 Folks, I do not inventory as a general rule - BUT I do have a fairly large stock of parts that I can use for substitutes should I encounter a shortage. If you are not similarly endowed, an inventory is a good idea. 73, Don Wilhelm - Wake Forest, NC W3FPR home page: http://www.qsl.net/w3fpr/ QRP-L # 485 K2 SN 0020 mailto: w3fpr at arrl.net ++++++++++++++++++ From: "Rod N0RC" To: "Elecraft-list" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] To inventory or not: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:04:40 -0700 Folks, Can't resist this topic. My vote, inventory. First, it is the courteous thing to do from Elecraft's stand point as Eric explained. Second, it is what any GOOD craftsman would do. I'll bet almost everybody has a story of frustration about how when it came for a home or auto repair, the job couldn't be completed due to a lack of parts, tools....whatever. Third, the inventory is a good way to get familiar with the parts and markings, which _will_ save time later. Combined with the parts sorting organizing, it doesn't take that much time. That said here is my bild process. 1. Inventory/sort/organize (I do skip resistors ONLY because I have a bunch). 2. As I install the part I double check value, and placement, then check it off in the instructions. 3. After installing several parts and BEFORE soldering, I check value and placement again, making a second check in the instructions. Following this process I have learned that if I skip or rush through the steps above, I will likely make a mistake of some sort that is time consuming to rectify. Also, If I start finding errors in step 3, I'm tired and it is time to quit build for a while. 73, Rod N0RC Ft Collins, CO +++++++++++++ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:45:47 -0500 From: Neil Schwanitz To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] re: Inventory If you aren't where there are parts stores near you... inventory! I just built a K1 (#1132) and got down the the short hairs as the 11 o'clock news was coming on and was one cap short. This wasn't a biggie for me, I ran down to the parts store the next morning ( http://www.future-active.com/ ) and picked up a pack of them for a little over a buck... and spent another $23 on other "impulse" items. Had I done an inventory, as I was sorting, I could have e mailed Elecraft with the missing part and requested one. Nothing is perfect, and small parts are small parts. -- Neil Schwanitz AAR5OZ /T WD8CRT +++++++++++++++ To: shaverj48 at attbi.com, elecraft at mailman.qth.net Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:40:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Parts is parts From: k6se at juno.com Jim, K7VFR wrote: "....should I breakdown and inventory the whole lot or can one get by with an inventory of each section as it comes up?" ========== Inventory the parts for each individual kit completely before you begin assambly of that kit. I feel that more important than making sure all the parts are included is the fact that you become familiar with the parts. There are many screws in the kit with only slight differences between some of them. There are some capacitors of the same value, but of slightly different physical size. Sorting the capacitors, ICs, transistors, etc. while doing the inventory can be a big time saver during the assembly phase. Do *not* sort the resistors by value. The resistors come on strips already sorted in the order in which they are used during assembly rather than by value. 73, de Earl, K6SE ++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:07:10 -1000 From: John Buck To: Jim Shaver Cc: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Parts is parts Jim Shaver wrote: > ...should I breakdown and inventory the whole lot or > can one get by with an inventory of each section as it comes up? > K7VFR > Salem, OR > I fall into the camp of making sure the major parts are there and then sorting the resistors and capacitors into easy to find groups stuffed into conductive foam. It is about a 95% inventory but goes pretty fast. But in addition to the reasons that I have seen published, is the fact that it costs about the same for Elecraft to send one resistor or several parts together. They save significant money and time if you request all short parts at the same time. So it is a courtesy to the supplier of our great kits to do a good inventory rather than requesting a part at a time when shortages are found during building. They go overboard in providing fast response to requests and I prefer not to abuse that service. Aloha, John KH7T +++++++++++++++++ Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 08:52:24 -0700 From: Vic Rosenthal Organization: Transparent Software To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Parts is parts Mike Branca wrote: > > The way I figure it the inventory is automatic as you > stuff the holes and you can get on with the building. The caps, however, > probably should have been sorted out but it would have taken a lot of muffin > tins to do the job. What I do is put things like 0.01's and 0.001's in muffin tins. Values that appear only a few times I stick in a piece of foam. In my opinion, if you don't sort the parts for you will spend MORE time searching for them during construction. It spoils the rhythm of inserting parts and makes it easier to make mistakes. And, if you are missing something you will not be able to order a replacement in advance. So, despite my lazy and disorderly nature I've learned to do the inventory first. 73 Vic K2VCO +++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 01:51:30 -0500 To: "nr5a" , elecraft at mailman.qth.net From: Tom Hammond =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=D8SS?= Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Inventory Jerry: >I won't get very far tonite with my inventory but I'm wondering, whats the >easiest way to do it? What worked for you? You might want to consider visiting my web site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~n0ss Once there, drop down to the bottom of the page and click on the DOWNLOAD page. Then, drop down a bit and look for: Kit-Building Parts Inventory/Sorter Box (idea originally from HeathKit) This is a 33kB JPG file which illustrates the method I've used for 40 years to keep inventoried parts straight as I perform the inventory. I work with one TYPE of component at a time (e.g. resistors OR capacitors). Once I get all of them 'sorted' out by value on the table in front of me, I then stick them into the parts sorter which is made from the PRIORITY MAIL box you got your K2 in. Parts with short leads or no leads are placed into the middle of the box, again, kinda grouped by item, but all parts with long enough leads go into the corrugations of the carbboard box. There are easily 20-30 different methods of sorting your components, and now that you've asked, you'll probably hear at least 20 of them. Pick the one you liek and make it yours. Have fun, and TAKE YOUR TIME BUILDING. 73, Tom Hammond N0SS +++++++++++++++++