++++++++++++++++ From: "Lyle Johnson" To: "Elecraft" Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2DSP Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 07:45:15 -0700 Hello Mike! > My question is this: Since the K2DSP is (by necessity) menu > driven I've wondered how quickly one can adjust the settings > having to access various menus. The most commonly adjusted functions are available by 1 or 2 button presses: ONE BUTTON Press AFIL to sequence through the four filter settings you have set up for the current mode. In CW, for example, this is usually a series of filters at the same center frequency, but varying width. TWO BUTTON 1) Tap DISPLAY to bring up the KDSP2 menu 2) The KDSP2 main menu for CW will let you then toggle noise reduction on and off (tap BAND+), toggle between hard and soft filter shapes (tap BAND-) or adjust the amount of noise reduction (PRESS STORE). The KDSP2 main menu for SSB will let you toggle noise reduction on and off (tap BAND+), toggle the autonotch on and off (tap BAND-) or adjust the amount of noise reduction (PRESS STORE). The main menu for RTTY lets you adjust filter center frequency and width since notch and noise reduction are not available in this mode. *** More esoteric settings, like denoiser beta and decay, are buried a few menus deeper. 73, Lyle KK7P +++++++++++++++++ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 18:07:49 -0700 From: Phil Wheeler Organization: Outstanding To: Lyle Johnson Cc: Elecraft Subject: [Elecraft] K2DSP: Adjusting Denoiser Levels Lyle and all, This morning I played a bit with the denoiser params (beta and decay), then returned them to the default settings of 89 and 71. After reading the manual more, I found that there are four possible nr levels, 1,2,3 and 4. So I decided to program these so nr1 would be less aggressive than the default and 2, 3 and 4 would be increasingly agressive. Before doing this, I planned to record the default values for each nr level by going to that level and then pressing RCL until those parameters were displayed. But I found them to be 89 and 71 for all four nr levels. And now the nr seems the same no matter what nr level I pick using the STORE press. OTOH .. seems like they were different earlier. Was I imagining that, or all four levels the same originally? Fianlly, if you were to recommend four nr beta-decay combos, what would you recommend, Lyle? The default seems pretty aggressive to me, so I would tend to make nr1 less so, adn perhaps use the default values for nr2 or nr3. Off to experiment some more, but I thought I would shoot this msg off before it gets too late in the evening. 73, Phil +++++++++++++++ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:09:51 -0700 From: Phil Wheeler Organization: Outstanding To: Lyle Johnson Cc: Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2DSP: Adjusting Denoiser Levels Lyle Johnson wrote: >Hello Phil! > > > >>After reading the manual more, I found that there are four possible nr >>levels, 1,2,3 and 4. So I decided to program these so nr1 would be less >>aggressive than the default and 2, 3 and 4 would be increasingly >>agressive. >> >> > >As you discovered, the beta and decay values apply to all four nr levels. >They also apply for cw and ssb. This is also why the menu is labeled "nr" >rather "n1", "n2" etc. > > > >>Fianlly, if you were to recommend four nr beta-decay combos, what would >>you recommend, Lyle? The default seems pretty aggressive to me, so I >>would tend to make nr1 less so, adn perhaps use the default values for >>nr2 or nr3. >> >> > >I use the default values. I can't recommend any particular values, since >noise conditions, signals and individual tastes account for so much. > Not surprising that you would use the default values: You got to pick them :-) Funny thing is re defaults is that I read the early on-line manual before getting the kit and figured I would have to change the CW center freqs from 800 to 600: Nope -- you already had made that change (and in the Rev A manual .. now at the website .. too)! My question was really based on my earlier misconception of separate beta and decay values for each nr level. Fun to have so many settings to play with. But once set up, all can be done with one or two button presses. In that regard, the 14 or so manual pages on KDSP2 Operation make it seem more complex than it really is for day-to-day operations. A very nice mix of flexibility and ease of use. Building that in, while staying in the framework of the K2 menu/display system, was likely one of the larger design challenges. 73, Phil ++++++++++++++ From: "Lyle Johnson" To: "Phil Wheeler" Cc: "Elecraft" Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2DSP: Adjusting Denoiser Levels Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:14:32 -0700 Hello Phil! > After purusing the manual over dinner, I'm getting the impression that > there is available one beta and one decay Yes,. Well, one set for denoiser functions, and one set for the notch. > and that the nr1-nr4 changes > are pre-programmed and not user available .. Yes. These change the length of the denoiser FIR filter and are hard-coded in the DSP. > If so, it would seem I want to set decay to a lower level and let the > nr1-4 add aggressiveness as needed. Setting decay to a lower level makes the system act as if it were more aggressive, because it doesn't "let go" of a setting very readily. For example, in the notch filter, the default of 7 works good on single tone interference but is marginal on 2 tone interference. Setting the decay to 1 works great on 1 and 2 tones - but you pay a penalty in artifacts. -Lyle +++++++++++++++ From: "Lyle Johnson" To: "Elecraft" Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2DSP: Adjusting Denoiser Levels Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:39:04 -0700 Hello Phil! > Fun to have so many settings to play with. But once set up, all can be > done with one or two button presses. In that regard, the 14 or so > manual pages on KDSP2 Operation make it seem more complex than it really > is for day-to-day operations. A very nice mix of flexibility and ease > of use. Building that in, while staying in the framework of the K2 > menu/display system, was likely one of the larger design challenges. It certainly seemed so at the time! Feedback during the FT process was invaluable in tuning the menu system. I'm glad you like it :-) 73, Lyle KK7P +++++++++++++++ From: "Bob Tellefsen" To: "Elecraft Mail List" Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 09:17:43 -0700 Subject: [Elecraft] KDSP2 and Spectrogram Hi Phil I use my old Palomar antenna noise bridge for a noise source. I used Spectrogram to peak up my filters in combination with the KDSP2. It certainly makes for a more symmetrical and clean display that way. I set my KDSP2 center frequency at 550 Hz and 50 Hz BW. Then adjusted the .05 crystal cw filter to match that with a smooth curve above and below center frequency. Then I did the same with my other crystal filter BWs, .15, .5 and 1.1 Khz. I set the DSP to these same BWs for matching. The combination of crystal filter and DSP really improves the overall passband shape. I used the KDSP2 all through the WPX. It sure was nice getting rid of much of the background noise. Much less wearing during a long stint. I ran the crystal filter at 1.1 kHz BW, and the DSP at LPF during my search periods (most of the time), and varied the NR settings between 1 and 3, depending on the noise level and signal strengths. Conditions were pretty punk at times, and even the NR didn't help when there was no signal energy there :-) I'm looking foreward to using the DSP on 160m next winter for the contests there. 73, Bob N6WG ++++++++++++++++ Message: 32 From: "Lyle Johnson" To: , Subject: RE: [Elecraft] RTC in the KDSP2 Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 07:51:26 -0700 Hello Roy! > ... When I hold STORE and RCL simultaneously all > I see is - - - - - (five dashes). This happens if you are not in a DSP menu when you press the buttons. You were in the normal display mode, and the K2 is prompting you for direct frequency entry. You must be in a DSP display before you press both buttons to get the RTC to come up. 73, Lyle KK7P +++++++++++++++ From: "Lyle Johnson" To: Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KDSP2 and XFIL use Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:32:04 -0700 Hello Andres! > Seems like the the new 4 digital filters are additional to the > crystal filters. Does one have to narrow down both filters (i.e. > switch FL1 to FL2 and CF1 to CF2) now in order to make the > bandwitch smaller? Or only the digital ones? Or is it > preference? (16 options seem like a lot...) The filter settings are independent. The AFIL button (DSP) adjusts the audio bandwidth; the XFIL button adjusts the IF bandwidth. To match them, you must adjust both. To allow the DSP to track the XFIL selection would require a change in the K2 MCU code. 73, Lyle KK7P +++++++++++++++ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:35:53 -0400 From: W2AGN Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KDSP2 and XFIL use To: Andreas KU7T , elecraft at mailman.qth.net On 30 May 2003 at 14:21, Andreas KU7T wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to figure out how the KDSP2 is used (from the manual). I have not purchased this option. My question: > > Seems like the the new 4 digital filters are additional to the crystal filters. Yep, they are Does one have to narrow down both filters (i.e. switch FL1 to FL2 and CF1 to CF2) now in order to make the bandwitch smaller? Or only the digital ones? Or is it preference? (16 options seem like a lot...) You can narrow either, or both. Yes, you do have a lot of options. In a recent contest, I tried the FL at 150 Hz, the DSP filter at 50 Hz, and noise reduction on. No ringing, and signals "popped" out. Only problem was the guys that called a little off frequency I never heard. I could go just 200 Hz from an S9+++ signal, and he was gone (except for the clowns with the FT1000s with the deliberate key clicks...where's Riley when you need him!) I am still playing with this thing, but even just using the basics, it makes an unbeatable receiver even better. +++++++++++++++ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:44:43 -0500 To: From: "Timothy A. Raymer" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KDSP2 and XFIL use Andreas, At 14:21 05/30/2003 -0700, Andreas KU7T wrote: > Does one have to narrow down both filters (i.e. switch FL1 to FL2 and > CF1 to CF2) now in order to make the bandwitch smaller? Or only the > digital ones? Or is it preference? (16 options seem like a lot...) The crystal filters limit the RF spectrum that the radio is "hearing." Thie limits what signals are in the passband of the radio, and also limits what RF the AGC is acting on. The DSP then manipulates the audio the radio is "hearing" to make it easier for you to hear specific signals. In general, you will probably find certain combinations that best favor your operating habits and styles. Tim Raymer ++++++++++++++++ From: "Lyle Johnson" To: Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KAT100-1 and KDSP2 conflict Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:30:00 -0700 Hello Bole! The problem with the KAT100 is really a problem with running the KPA100 with a high SWR. I am aware of this problem and have sent new MCUs to a couple of field testers to verify that it is fixed. So far, the rigs that were experiencing this problem have been cured with the use of the new MCU firmware. I suggest in the meantime that you do all tuning at 10 watts or less, and only operate the KPA100 into a matched load. The disappearing menu at gain level 5 is also a known, but infrequent problem. I am working with the chip vendor, Atmel, to fix this problem. I have a couple of test versions of a fix for this being exercised now, too. I think you may find that even though the menu display is blank, the 5.0 setting still works and you can probably continue the sequence to 5.5 (or 4.5) and it will work fine. Thank you for reporting these. 73, Lyle KK7P -- org message -- From: "Bozidar Benc" To: Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:03:44 +0200 Subject: [Elecraft] KAT100-1 and KDSP2 conflict Hi, My K2-100 #3400 is loaded with KSB2, KNB2 and KDSP2, and connected to KAT100-1. I'm using 20 cm of RG58 coax for RF connection from K2 to KAT100. Serial cable is 25 cm long from K2 to KAT100 and 1.5 m from K2 to my PC. KDSP2 works really great in this combination, until I go to TUNE mode in high power mode, on frequencies where VSWR on my antenna is worse than 1.5:1 (that's only a guess). In that case, after I tap on the DISPLAY button to go to the DSP2 menu, I get "not inst" message, as if KDSP2 is not installed. AFIL button also doesn't work. However, if any KDSP2 filter was active, or denoiser was active, they still work, although I cannot access KDSP2 menus. Turning K2 off and then on reactivates KDSP2. The next manifestation of the problem is that, when it happens, it seems that KAT100 doesn't save L/C settings for the current band. When I use 1.5 m of RG58 coax (instead of 20 cm) to connect K2 to KAT100, the situation is a bit better. Low power mode (KAT100 is in the bypass mode) works fine. I have another problem with KDSP2, probably not related with the problem I described. I cannot set the denoiser and filter gain on CW to more than 4.5 dB. When the gain is 4.0 dB and I tap on BAND+ then the gain amount disappears from the display and I cannot exit the menu. After turning K2 off and then on, the gain is set to 4.5 dB. Any suggestions??? 73 Bole, 9A3RR +++++++++++++++++ From: "Bozidar Benc" To: Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KAT100-1 and KDSP2 conflict Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:39:57 +0200 Lyle, Thanks a lot for the quick reply. I feel much better now knowing that the problems are known and that you are working on fixes. 73 Bole, 9A3RR +++++++++++++++++