++++++++++++++++ From: "Mike" To: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:53:23 -0400 Subject: [Elecraft] KDSP2 I bought my KDSP2 at Dayton on Friday just before we left that day. = When I got up Saturday morning and saw it raining then saw the weather = forecast for the day I just drive home.....Things to do, a KDSP2 to = build. I started kinda late on Saturday evening so I didn't get too far = and finished it Sunday morning and put it in my K2. First, the inventory went just as it always has, everything, every = little piece and part. It went together without a hitch! Only found = one discrepancy in the silkscreen and Wayne is kinda aware of that, I = made myself a note, too bad I can't find it! But Wayne has the idea and = it's pretty a pretty small glitch, nothing to worry about, heck, I = figured it out .....Plugged the KDSP into the K2, did the initial = checkout by the manual and everything worked just as it should! But = what would you really expect? It is an Elecraft kit! It took me about 1.5 - 2.0 hours to build, checkout and button up the = lid! When you tune in a signal with the DSP enabled you are in for a = very pleasant experience. The signals, SSB or CW....I haven't tried it = on any of the digital modes....PSK, RTTY or Slow Scan, but the signals = have much more presence! The noise reduction feature is really neat, no = doubt you have enabled NR...it really works! The auto notch, exactly = the same as NR....you definitely know you have enabled the notch, what = heterodyne? =20 I really haven't had that much time to play with it and get familiar = with the variables that are available for DSP, NR and auto notch, you = know work and earning a living...okay getting paid, keep getting in the = way of playin' with my new toy! I have noticed that whenever I change = the variables I keep going back to the defaults, they are really pretty = good. But there is a setting for every ear, lots the learn and = experiment with! I really need more air time with it to be more = specific, let's just say there are going to be a lot of K2 owners that = will be impressed to say the least. Although the KAF2 works very good, the KAF2 aint no KDSP2, and I plan to = keep mine. My K2 is sitting next to my Omni VI Plus with DSP and auto = Notch and Noise Reduction.....lets just say the initial comparisons have = been very, very favorable. Impressive is a very good word to use in = this case. The KDSP2 aint playin' second fiddle here folks! Two comments, first...the clock and date setting are a WHOLE LOT BETTER! = Easy is the only way to put it. Second, the information available = through the menus when custom tailoring the KDSP2 is complete, the = manual is very well written describing the how to's in each menu. You = like it your way? You have your way! But, if you don't want to = experiment, just use the defaults, they are very good! Well, back to playin' it's sittin' there doing it's thing on 17 meters = and I'm typing....something wrong with that. Thanks for another fine product...you guys are just great. And a = special thanks to the Elecraft staff for all of theri help and support! Mike - KC8WR s/n 699 - everything but the amp/qro tuner......maybe a little = later.....gotta have something to look foreword to....oops, then there = are the Transverters.....oh my. ++++++++++++++++ From: "gwlillie" To: Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:34:42 -0400 Subject: [Elecraft] KDSP is done Just finished dsp and everything works fine. No problems so far and it = was a perfect fit. Noise reduction is great but as you know it will = affect rec audio in the form of distortion. Its a little like having = your speaker under water. Filters work great. And remember you only have = to noise reduction when you need it . Even at the lowest level audio is = distorted, its the price you pay. Careful tuning will give you good = audio. Auto notch is top notch George N8GW K2100 3091 +++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:58:04 -0700 From: Bob Nielsen To: Elecraft List , QRP-L Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New .wav files of KDSP2 noise reduction on SSB and CW On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 10:53:16AM -0700, Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft wrote: > As requested, we have added demo files of the KDSP2 in action using noise > reduction for CW and SSB signals to our KDSP2 web page. The links are near > the bottom of the page. > See: http://www.elecraft.com/KDSP2/kdsp2.htm > > These recordings were made with the DSP set for a fairly aggressive noise > reduction. The KDSP2 can also be adjusted from the K2's front panel for > more or less noise reduction as you like. it can also be set to run with > the auto notch and narrow bandwidth filter settings at the same time as > noise reduction. > > 73, Eric WA6HHQ > http://www.elecraft.com > Eric, Those are very good examples and reflect my experience with the KDSP2 as well, although I haven't had much opportunity yet to use it on SSB (I just finished the KSB2 yesterday). There is practically an infinite combination of available settings for the various features of the KDSP2, unlike much of the competition which gives you perhaps a few pre-set values. Although the default settings are not bad, I suspect that most people will want to experiment a bit. The manual lists all the default values so it is fairly easy to return to the starting point, if desired. I have been keeping noise reduction on in CW mode (it's easy to mistake the noise reduction for a dead band!), but only use it for SSB when conditions dictate. Do you recall what settings were used in capturing the demo audio? 73, Bob, N7XY ++++++++++++++++ From: "Lyle Johnson" To: "Elecraft List" Subject: RE: [Elecraft] New .wav files of KDSP2 noise reduction on SSB and CW Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 22:49:24 -0700 Hello Logan! > Has anybody tried the KDSP2 with PSK31 or RTTY? I was just copying some weak PSK31 using digipan and the KDSP2. PSK31 goes right through the 50 Hz wide filter in RTTY mode. You can clearly see the effect of the narrow filter on the waterfall display. I can't say it makes PSK31 any easier for the software to decode - that is a function of the implementation of the modem software in the soundcard, and most of that seems pretty good. But by limiting the wideband noise, the A/D in the soundcard may have somewhat improved dynamic range since fewer vectors are spinning around which can add up to voltage peaks in the the audio signal. Noise reduction and notch filters are not available in RTTY/Data modes. I haven't tried them in SSB modes on PSK31. I would not expect good things to happen, though... 73, Lyle KK7P +++++++++++++++++ Reply-To: From: "Tony Fegan VE3QF" To: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 15:10:05 -0400 Organization: VE3QF Subject: [Elecraft] KDSP2 in operation I purchased the KDSP2 in Dayton and have just completed it. My first impressions (only 1 hour of operation) are very favourable. I took my time and spent a very pleasurable 4 or 5 hours which included inventory check and initial setup. There were no problems during assembly. All the tests went fine, although I did not expect to see "EE.EE.EE" when I first checked the clock. My first thought was that I had put the battery in backwards. After figuring out the clock setup, I was relieved to see that all was well. Maybe a note at the beginning of the clock setup section (Page 33) stating that the "EE.EE.EE" display is normal until the clock is setup, would calm our nerves. As it is, this is not mentioned until the bottom of page 34. I suppose we really should read the whole manual before we start construction but who has the patience! A quick test on SSB at my very noisy location showed that the background noise could be almost eliminated with nr set to 1. There is the usual DSP audio quality change, but it is quite acceptable to me. It certainly improves the comfort and ease of listening. There did not seem to be any improvement on very weak signals (in the noise) and sometimes seemed to be less intelligible. I am sure this is to be expected. Signals marginally above the noise showed no loss of intelligibility. I have not played around with any settings yet, so my first tryout was with the default settings. My impression is that there is an increase of audio output. I have the audio gain control mod installed and usually ran with the gain control at about 11 o'clock. Now I have adequate audio with the control at 9 o'clock. I did not replace the KAF2 to confirm this. More testing to come when I get time. Tony VE3QF K2/100 #490 (+most of the bells and whistles) ++++++++++++++++ Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 23:40:20 -0700 From: Phil Wheeler Organization: Outstanding To: ve3qf at rac.ca Cc: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KDSP2 in operation Tony Fegan VE3QF wrote: >All the >tests went fine, although I did not expect to see "EE.EE.EE" when I >first checked the clock. My first thought was that I had put the battery >in backwards. After figuring out the clock setup, I was relieved to see >that all was well. Maybe a note at the beginning of the clock setup >section (Page 33) stating that the "EE.EE.EE" display is normal until >the clock is setup, would calm our nerves > Electrical Engineer time in Hrs.Min.Sec :) Perfectly rational. Phil ++++++++++++++++ From: "gwlillie" To: Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 17:57:35 -0400 Subject: [Elecraft] Dsp decay I did not like the noise reduction at first but now it the best I have = ever heard. The nicest thing about this dsp is its adjustability. The = default decay is 71, but to my ears it sounds like it is inside a steel = drum. As you decrease the decay the hollow sound goes away to your = liking. Just like the manual says play with the lower numbers on the = decay. The filters, especially on cw is just fantastic. Even at the = highest level (4) of noise reduction the audio is very understandable. = Get one you won't be disappointed. My hats off to Elecraft. Now I'm = drooling for a six meter transverter. I have a Icom 706 but it is = nothing but noise on 6 meters. George N8GW +++++++++++++++++ From: "Roger Marrotte" To: Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 15:07:59 -0400 Subject: [Elecraft] KDSP2 I received my KDSP2 kit in the mail this morning. I took my time doing the inventory and then building it. I didn't go fast but I didn't take any breaks either. Time to completion was just under 3 hours. It is installed and working. Seems to be just as advertised. Very nice. It's at least as good as the DSP in my Kenwood TS-2000 and I like the 2000's DSP a lot. Now all I have to do is try to figure out, and remember how to change/setup the filters. I went through the examples in the manual and followed that OK. I'll have to go over the examples and the tables of defaults in the manual to get more comfortable changing settings. Hopefully someone will come out with an idiot (me) proof cheat sheet to make it easier to remember how to change settings. I can't ever see me going back to the KAF2 board. The KDSP2 is at least as good and does a whole lot more. 73, Roger, W1EM ++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 16:26:31 -0500 From: Richard Lim To: Elecraft Subject: [Elecraft] KDSP2 My KDSP2 arrived today. Inventory revealed kit was complete, as usual, why bother anymore! Anyhow the kit went together without a hitch. Initial impressions is that I miss the "hiss" reduction from the KAF2. I think that I'll have to adjust the low pass filter to achieve the same result. The denoiser on SSB makes the audio sound as if they are behind a thick piece of felt and also has a "watery" sound. Sounds like the DSP on my TS2000. The notch filter is awesome/scary good! Now folks on CW the KDSP2 is fantastic! I personally like it better than the KAF2 which it replaced and this is with the default filter settings, can't wait to start modifying things to suit me. Dits and Dahs are sharp, distince and seem to "pop" right out at you, hard to explain, you need to hear it. Only complaint so far is that it is inconvenient to get to the clock, takes more keystrokes to use VS KAF2 were you hit the display button once. I will play more and report more of my impressions later. Rich KQ9L ++++++++++++++++ From: "Don Brown" To: "Dave" , Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KDSP2 Build Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 16:55:51 -0500 -- snip -- BTY the second one did go together faster only took 40 minutes from start to check out in #2174. This is a very easy kit to build. Don Brown KD5NDB +++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 18:34:34 -0700 From: Phil Wheeler Organization: Outstanding To: Don Brown Cc: Dave , Elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KDSP2 Build Don Brown wrote: >BTY the second one did go together faster only took 40 minutes from start to >check out in #2174. This is a very easy kit to build. > I'm a bit slow, Don. Took me 3 or so hours.. OTOH I did manage to make a major mistake (corrected with my Hako 808). In any case, I have used the NIR-12, the Timewave DSP-599zx, TS-570DG DSP and IC-706MKII DSP .. and the KDSP2 is by far the best. And I've but scratched the surface of its cababilities. TKS to Lyle and the Elecraft gang (how many companies would embrace the enhancements of a mere "user""?) 73, Phil p.s. The Noise Generator was really a plus when I optimized my filters this morning. ++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 22:54:22 -0500 From: Richard Lim To: Elecraft Subject: [Elecraft] KDSP2 Have been playing with the KDSP2 now for a few hours. I have found an additional perk with the DSP which really adds to the utility of this option. You can now increase the audio gain though the KDSP there by increasing the rigs audio output to a level much greater than through the stand alone K2. In addition, you can adjust the audio gain of the denoiser to balance the audio output to the output without it engaged. This was important to me as I had a sense that with the denoiser engaged, audio output was being attenuated. By playing with the gain for the filter, my audio stays at the same level when I engage the denoiser, neat. -- snip -- Rich -- 73 DE KQ9L K2/100 #3232 ++++++++++++++++ From: "Lyle Johnson" To: "Elecraft" Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KDSP2 Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 21:26:33 -0700 > Have been playing with the KDSP2 now for a few hours. I have found an > additional perk with the DSP which really adds to the utility of this > option. You can now increase the audio gain though the KDSP there by > increasing the rigs audio output to a level much greater than through the > stand alone K2. Note that there is a danger to doing this. It is possible to increase the gain so much that you hit limiting (clipping) inside the DSP. This is manifested as really loud, distorted signals. If you increase the gain through the filters and then switch AGC OFF, you might get an unpleasant surprise. Similarly if your AGC is somehow adjusted such that really strong signals make it through, you might also get clipping in the DSP. The intent of the gain adjustments was to allow *balancing* of the audio levels across the modes (CW, SSB and RTTY). > In addition, you can adjust the audio gain of the denoiser > to balance the audio output to the output without it engaged. Yes. This was made available for exactly this reason. However, be aware that cascading too much gain in the DSP to try to increase overall K2 system gain might yield the same clipping problem mentioned above. The level is adjustable because more aggressive denoising levels result in greater loss of desired signal. Finally, remember that different signals have different qualities from the perspective of the denoiser. A good example is to set the mode to SSB, tune in an SSB signal with the denoiser and set the gain to make the signal appear to be the same level with noise reduction on or off. Then, tune to the 4 MHz test signal in your K2 with denoiser and notch OFF. Turn the denoiser ON. You'll hear a much louder heterodyne. Continuous tones have much better "autocorrelation" properties so the denoiser ignores them pretty well. This is also the reason that CW denoise has a separate gain adjustment than SSB denoise. And why the CW denoise default is 0.0 dB :-) 73, Lyle KK7P +++++++++++++++ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 08:15:25 -0700 From: Phil Wheeler Organization: Outstanding To: Mike McCoy Cc: Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2DSP Mike McCoy wrote: >My question is this: Since the K2DSP is (by necessity) menu driven I've wondered how quickly one can adjust the settings having to access various menus. > Mike, I built mine yesterday and found myself to be "menu challenged" (e.g., could not get the clock to work, so I though I had done something wrong -- a reasonable assumption, since I had initially installed the battery holder on the wrong side of the PCB and had to "Hakko it"). This morning I went out to the shack, got the clock working and played in the menu system .. changing the noise reduction params, etc. Spent maybe 40 minutes at this. I have a ways to go on this, but I am finding that I am learning to navigate the menu system well -- good learning curve. OTOH, I suspect that, once I get all set to my liking (e.g., the default SSB filters seem pretty much what I would choose), I can do most of what I want by a couple of button pushes or taps. I owned the Timewave 599ZX a couple of years ago and sold it, since I liked my JPS NIR-12 a bit better for my uses. The Timewave (and NIR-12) are easy to adjust, but I far prefer the performance of the KDSP2 in terms of filtering and noise reduction. And I know I will like it better as time goes on. I have used the NIR-12 with my K2, and there is no comparison: The KDSP2 wins hands down; the NIR-12 did do a better job of heating my shack, though :-) And the KAF2 will not be missed, either; the KDSP2 blows it away. I've been entranced by DSP for a long time, due to some work in my ancient academic past (when it would have taken a computer the size of a house to do what a P4 will do today). So I have tested every ham (audio) DSP unit I have been able to get my hands on. The KDSP2 is the best I've come across. I suspect that it, in combination with the K2's excellent xtal filter system, will outdo most so-called IF DSPs on the market today. 73, Phil ++++++++++++++ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:10:59 -0400 From: W2AGN To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] KDSP2 and PLL Mod In the continuing rainy weather, I built and installed the KDSP2 in old #023, as well as the PLL stability mod. All works FB. I am amazed at the DSP. Using a 150Hz Filter setting (on the "regular" filter), and a 50Hz DSP filter, with noise reduction, and can seperate all those Contest stations on 20 CW. My only previous use of DSP filters were with the Argonaut V. There is no comparison. I will need to keep the instructions at hand for awhile, until I remember tha various buttons to push. --- +-++-++-++-++-+ John L. Sielke |W||2||A||G||N| http://www.w2agn.net [UPDATED] +-++-++-++-++-+ Ex-K3HLU,TF2WKT,W7JEF,W4MPC,N4JS ++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 18:30:34 -0700 From: Phil Wheeler Organization: Outstanding To: Ted Buckley Cc: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2DSP Ted Buckley wrote: > K2DSP module arrived 5/24, built 5/25, installed today What took you so long, Ted? > , no problems, what a great improvement! Thanks Lyle, and you all at > Elecraft! Now all I have to do is learn how to run it! Actually it is amazingly intuitive once you start using it. I've spent maybe two hours with it and it is second nature now. Once you get things like the filters set to your liking (I like the defaults), then it is just a tap (or push) to two to do most anything. 73, Phil ++++++++++++++ From: "Len Koppl" To: Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:01:57 -0600 Subject: [Elecraft] Yet another KDSP2 Well I built and installed the KDSP2 - What a difference! Kudos to Lyle, KK7P, for a stellar option for the K2, and thanks to Eric and Wayne for making it an offering. The notch depth is clearly superior to my TS-2000, and the noise levels are down, and there are less artifacts to garble the desired signal as well. The only thing the '2000 has on the K2 is the dedicated knobs for DSP. I have barely played with the settings, and I am already extremely happy with the performance. It makes my old W9GR filter look like an antique... Now I can't wait to try it on the Colorado ARES HF net on 75 meters this Sunday. There are lots of on-freq tuner-uppers as well as high levels of atmospheric noise. It will be interesting to see how it does in this real-world test. If you don't have one of these, and you work the low bands at all, I would highly recommend it. The 'QRN fatigue' ought to go WAY down! And that is just the de-noise and auto-notch functions. The sharp, tunable CW and SSB filters really make the difference during crowded band conditions, and are a great adjunct to the crystal filters. Thanks again for a great job! 73, Len Koppl, KDØRC +++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 07:41:45 -0700 From: Phil Wheeler Organization: Outstanding To: Len Koppl Cc: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Yet another KDSP2 Len Koppl wrote: >If you don't have one of these, and you work the low bands at all, I would >highly recommend it. The 'QRN fatigue' ought to go WAY down! And that is >just the de-noise and auto-notch functions. The sharp, tunable CW and SSB >filters really make the difference during crowded band conditions, and are a >great adjunct to the crystal filters. > Yupp .. I was able to pull a VK4 on SSB out of the mud the other night using tighter DSP filter settings and denoise. Huge improvement is capability. 73, Phil +++++++++++++++ From: Unifiedtx at aol.com Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:45:53 EDT To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] KDSP2 Is Great! Lyle, Eric and Wayne, Thanks for making this DSP possible. It went together like a dream and worked like it should when fired up the first time. I did have cockpit trouble (because I did not read the manual first) when I tried to set the RTC. When I inquired about why I was seeing - - - - - (five dashes) instead of getting the clock, Lyle KK7P informed me right away where I was going wrong. Thanks again, Lyle. The menus take some getting used to; but once you learn how to navigate through them, the DSP unit shines. I put all my CW center frequency settings at 750 Hz because my CW offset is set to 750 and the DSP really came to life. I opened up the SSB Low Cut and High Cut settings and found the default settings were more pleasing. This is an individual taste thing, and the Low and High Cut settings can be taylored as you like. A bonus that comes with the KDSP2 is additional audio gain. This is a real winner!! Thanks again for making the KDSP2 possible. Roy W4WFB -- __--__-- ++++++++++++++++