+++++++++++++ See also K2 External Keyer Notes ++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:06:23 -0700 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" Subject: RE: [Elecraft] elementary keyer question Haines Brown, KB1GRM, asked: ... K2... If I were to use a straight hand key for input, which of the two non-ground connections in the K2 keyer stereo plug should I use?... .. an MFJ Electronic Keyer that sits on a Bencher...has a "keying output" that consists of two RCA jacks, one labeled "direct" and the other, "grid block." How should these two RCA jacks be mated to the K2 keyer stereo plug? ... Which of the above three options seem best if I want to improve my code and anticipate going on to to use CW mode, primarily from a fixed home station." The K2 lets you change the type of key and the way it acts in the MENU commands. You are right about the two non-ground contacts on the key plug being the dot and dash inputs for a set of 'paddles' like your 'Bencher'. Normally, paddles are connected so they operate much like the old manual semi-automatic keys ("bugs"), the forefinger of your right hand presses the levers to the left to make dashes and your thumb pushes them to the right to make dots. You can reverse this action in the menu commands too. I suggest staying with the 'normal' setup so anyone else who sits down at your rig (or if you visit someone else) the key will work the same way. If you ground both the dot and dash connections simultaneously, the K2 recognizes this as a 'straight key' input. So if you connect the two 'hot' contacts together, then use the straight key to ground them when you press it, the K2 will operate properly with a straight key without changing from the 'keyer' mode. You will find instructions on the reflector (and in the manual I think) for using a couple of diodes so you can have both a straight key and paddles connected at the same time and they will work properly. The diodes isolate the straight key so it doesn't short out the dot and dash connections which would make the paddles not work. The "Grid Block" output from your MFJ is for use with vacuum tube rigs. One very popular way of keying a tube-type transmitter was to place a large negative voltage on the control grid of one of the tubes -- something between -50 and -150 volts d-c, depending upon the rig. That turned the tube stage 'off' to 'key' the rig for CW. Most solid state keyers would ruined by hooking that much voltage to the keying output. The MFJ has a special circuit specifically designed to handle it. You don't need to use it for the K2. There are subtle differences in keyers. Some ops (myself included) found the K2's keyer circuit very 'friendly' and I could sent perfect code the moment I sat down to it. Others have had some trouble adapting to it. That will happen in many electronic keyers. I have sat down at other rigs that had me screaming in five minutes of stumbling about on the key. There are several timing 'modes' that are popular among the keyers on the market in various rigs that cause this problem. Also, there are different ways these keyers handle the dot and dash memories. Many keyers offer 'iambic' mode, that will send alternating dots and dashes if you squeeze both paddles. How these memories and functions act in different keyers can cause ops to stumble when the try to use a new keyer, until they get used to the new action. Sometimes it can be really frustrating trying to get the 'feel' of a different keyer. For that reason, some ops avoid using built-in keyers, and stick with their own 'external' keyer like that MFJ on your Bencher. That way, if they go visiting to another Ham or on Field Day with a group where they may operate other rigs, they can take their keyer along and be sure that they can send FB CW with it. With your MFJ you could even hook up to a vintage "tube type" rig! You would normally put the K2 or any rig you use with your MFJ in 'hand key' mode when you key it with the external keyer. There's a long tradition of one carrying their own key around. The old mechanical semi-automatic keys ("bugs") were handled that way. Seldom did one op touch another's 'bug' except by very special invitation. Commercial ops carried their bugs to their work and used only their own keys. On the other hand, the keyers built into rigs have become so pervasive and often able to adjust their 'mode' to suit what you are used to that the idea of using an external keyer is becoming less popular. Using a built in keyer certainly enhances portable operations by eliminating one extra 'box' to carry around I'd go with what seems easiest to you. Congratulations and welcome to a great, rig, a great hobby and the great world of CW, Haines. Ron AC7AC K2 # 1289 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 18:53:28 -0600 From: Kevin Ferguson Subject: RE: [Elecraft] elementary keyer question - -----Original Message----- c) I inherited an MFJ Electronic Keyer that sits on a Bencher. It has a "keying output" that consists of two RCA jacks, one labelled "direct" and the other, "grid block." How should these two RCA jacks be mated to the K2 keyer stereo plug? By turning the electronic keyer "off," I assume K2 would see it simply as a Bencher paddle. [Kevin Ferguson] Connect the "direct" output to the K2's "dash" input, or to both dot and dash through diodes (auto straight key detect) The "grid-block" output is for older all-tube rigs (like my first rig, DX-60, still have it) and you can't/don't need to use it at all with the K2. Your assumption is wrong. Turning off the keyer will allow the K2 to see the keyer/paddle as a block of wood (no effect at all, in other words). You will have to pull the keyer off the paddle and wire a cable between K2 and paddle in order to use the K2 keyer. And again, quoting: Let me slip in this philosophical question. Which of the above three options seem best if I want to improve my code and anticipate going on to to use CW mode, primarily from a fixed home station. Should I strip the MFJ off the Bencher? Should I just turn off the MFJ circuit and use the K2 keyer instead? The MFJ keyer I have may be defective, and so I'm open to suggestions as to the ideal setup for sending code. [Kevin Ferguson] Strip the keyer off the paddle, and Use the K2's keyer if your not already adapted to the MFJ. You will gain the benifit of the K2's keyer memory. Great for CQing if nothing else. (I use mine for spelling "Albuquerque" as well!) Also, if you want to portable or mobile, it is one less thing to carry. I am still trying to get use to the K2's keyer, as it seems not to work exactly like my MFJ/curtis8044(A) keyer. (I've had some email discussion with wayne on this topic) Also, If you are not already mode-a adapted, (like me) then learn with mode-b as it is much more common, and somewhat less critical on timing. (the reason it was invented, I think) Use the K2's "test" mode (vox button when in CW mode) to practice off the air. 73 ko0b ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:12:55 -0500 From: Dave Sjolin Subject: Re: [Elecraft] MFJ-Voice Keyer problem with K2 "Anthony A. Luscre" wrote: > > I am having a problem with using a MFJ Voice Keyer Model 432 with my K2. > I have the mic setup as Kenwood configuration in both K2 and MFJ. When I > key the mic either from voice keyer or external mic connected through > MFJ K2 responds normally with PTT and audio being sent to K2. The > problem then occurs the K2 hangs in PTT. If I then turn off K2 and turn > back on it is cleared or if I remove the mic plug from front of K2. I > have tried removing all jumpers in K2 except Audio (pin #1), PTT (pin > #2) and ground (pin #8). The MFJ works fine with my Kenwood TS-690. > > Any ideas?? Sounds like RF feeback to me. I've had similar problem with keyers, RTTY gear and voice equalizers. Is everything in your shack properly grounded? If not, do so. You may be able to cure the problem by placing split core chokes over all of your interconnecting audio cables as well as power cables. Probably wouldnt hurt to put one or more on your coax leaving the rig as well. 73 de Dave, N0IT ++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 01:15:39 -0400 From: "Anthony A. Luscre" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] MFJ-Voice Keyer problem with K2 Well, I solved the problem but not sure what real cause is. If I remove the keyer cable from plug in back everything works just fine. Will investigate more after CQWW SSB contest 10 & 15 have been great. Even worked E30NA on first try for new country. Gary L Surrency wrote: > Check the voltage on the PTT line inside the K2. If it is not rising high > enough when the PTT is to open, there may be excessive leakage on the PTT > line from the MFJ keyer. Be sure that R16 (10k) is present on the SSB > adapter, between pin 1 and 6 of U1. This resistor pulls up the PTT line. > > Or you may have something defective on the PTT circuit. Note that the DOT > keyer input and the PTT line are the same. > > 73, > > Gary Surrency AB7MY > > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:07:33 -0400 "Anthony A. Luscre" > writes: > > I am having a problem with using a MFJ Voice Keyer Model 432 with my > > K2. --- snip --- +++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 19:44:52 +0100 From: "Ingo, DK3RED" Subject: [Elecraft] Re: K2 Key Input Auto Sense and Computer Keying Hello Dave, > I'd like to be able to connect my paddle and computer keying interface > to my K2, at the same time. I've seen references to an article or > page on the Elecraft Web site on how to do this with diodes, but I > can't seem to find it. I don't now about a source on the elecraft pages, but if you see in your "owner's manual", so you will find the picture for it. ("CW Operation" - Figure 8-3) ;o) - -- 72/73 de Ingo, DK3RED ( Don't forget: the fun is the power ! ) dk3red at t-online.de - www.qsl.net/dk3red - www.t-online.de/~dk3red +++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 07:42:20 -0800 From: Wayne Burdick Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Key auto detect Ron, You probably have auto-detect disabled, which is the default if your firmware is rev 2.xx. Go into the INP menu entry, hold EDIT to highlight the parameter, then tap DISPLAY to turn auto-detect on. 73, Wayne N6KR Ron Herman wrote: > > I just built up a little box with connectors and diodes to allow me to > connect a straight key (SKN is coming) and a paddle to the K2 and use it's > auto detect feature... Trouble is it doesn't work... when I use the > straight key I get alternating dots and dashes instead of straight > keying... what did I miss? +++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 15:34:54 -0500 From: Ron Herman Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Key auto detect Yes, that was it... I never thought to read the firmware update document... works like a champ now... I'm thinking of giving Straight Key Nite a shot this year... Thanks.. Ron +++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:29:55 -0800 From: Wayne Burdick Organization: Elecraft To: Bob Patten Cc: Elecraft Reflector , Gary Surrency Subject: [Elecraft] Re: K2 Internal Keyer Weighting Bob Patten wrote: > I've already answered my original question. When my firmware was > updated, a second set of menu items was added that included "DOT" > weighting. I found that mine was set to 1.10, apparently the default > since I don't recall ever touching it. There still remains a problem > however. The lightest setting available from the menu is .90 which > still results in a dot slightly heavier than a normal 1:1 dot/space ratio. > Although this is still obvious to the ear, I can live with it - unless > someone has happened across a fix? Bob, The range of dot/space ratios we provide in the DOT entry is about as wide as we can make it, for reasons relating to internal firmware timing. But we all listened to code at both extremes, and felt that we had covered the range of ratios that anyone would want to use. We felt that anything lower than .90 sounded too "light". Your comment is the first I've heard otherwise. I've added an item to the firmware wish-list to see if the range can be extended below this point. Thanks for the input. 73, Wayne +++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 06:26:10 -0600 To: k6se at juno.com, elecraft at mailman.qth.net From: Tom Hammond =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=D8SS?= Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 Message Memory Hi Earl: >"Unfortunately, neither mode will allow this. What he needs is a >'real-time load mode, which is not offered in the K2. > >IAB Modes A & B only have to do with how the keyer handles pending paddle > closures, and not how memory loading is accomplished." >========== >Sorry 'bout that. I thought that the K2's iambic A and iambic B modes >were like the Yaesu FT-1000MP's iambic 1 and iambic 2 modes. > >The MP's iambic 2 mode does allow what Colin, N0YGY wanted. In fact, it >is difficult to key anything into the MP's message memories in the iambic >1 mode because iambic 1 insists that the operator sends perfectly-formed >characters and spacings. What I believe Colin is searching for would allow him to 'force' added (fixed amounts of) space between characters, similar to what you'd hear if he was sending Farnsworth-spaced CW. The Idiom Press series of CMOS SUpere Keyers offer this feature, as do some others. Some keyers also offer "real-time" memory loading which pretty much follows your actual sending... if you leave a 15-baud space between characters, it will save a 15-baud space as well. This type of entry mode can be very difficult to use, BUT it does allow you to have the memory send what YOU sent into it. I much prefer the method used by the CMOS Super Keyer series which allows you to enter normally-spaces characters, but which will allow you to force added character spacing (by entry of special control characters between characters) when it is required. 73, Tom N0SS +++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 09:42:54 -0800 From: Wayne Burdick Organization: Elecraft To: Tom Hammond =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=D8SS?= Cc: k6se at juno.com, elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 Message Memory Tom Hammond NØSS wrote: > I much prefer the method used by the CMOS Super Keyer series which allows > you to enter normally-spaces characters, but which will allow you to force > added character spacing (by entry of special control characters between > characters) when it is required. > This is quite likely to be included in a future revision of the K2 firmware. 73, Wayne +++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 12:45:39 -0600 To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net From: Tom Hammond =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=D8SS?= Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 Message Memory Wayne wrote: >Tom Hammond N=D8SS wrote: > > > I much prefer the method used by the CMOS Super Keyer series which= allows > > you to enter normally-spaces characters, but which will allow you to= force > > added character spacing (by entry of special control characters between > > characters) when it is required. > >This is quite likely to be included in a future revision of the K2= firmware. Wonderful. Thanks, Tom N0SS ++++++++++++++++++ To: f8dql at radioamateur.org, elecraft at mailman.qth.net Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:08:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 automatic keyer From: k6se at juno.com Bruce, W8FU wrote: "I've had no problem loading several messages into the automatic keyer. It certainly is not normal." ---------- No problems keying messages into my K2's message memory also. ========== "Maybe there is some RF getting into the rig." ---------- If you suspect RF is getting into the rig, press and hold the MODE button while in CW mode to put the rig in the TEST mode. Then you can program the keyer memories without transmitting any RF. 73, de Earl, K6SE ++++++++++++++++++ From: "Jibeji" To: , "'Elecraft'" Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 10:33:18 +0200 Subject: [Elecraft] Re: K2 automatic keyer Hello all. I have recorded some long messages at 12wpm to test and it works perfectly at any speed. Thank you for this advice, it is THE solution -- F8DQL - UFT 1116 K2/100 #3249 tlogan7 at cox.net wrote: > Agreed - it's definitely not normal. The keyer messages work really > well. I have a suggestion though. Enter your message with slow keying > - say 10wpm - then play it back at your normal sending speed. I have > occasionally had a problem if I key the message in too fast - but I > think it was just operator error on my part. Maybe this will help. > 73/Tim NZ7C ++++++++++++++++++