+++++++++++++++++++++++++ See also G5RV Antenna Discussion +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 04:38:11 -0700 From: "John Clifford" Subject: [Elecraft] Kind of a K2 Question... :-) Greetings, Congrats to Gerald N4GE's earning DXCC with his K2. This is a goal of mine as well (QRP, of course). Here's my question. Although I've managed to contact several DX entities, I can't seem to heart many stations in Europe (although I've gotten Sweden, Northern Ireland, Russia [St. Petersburg] and the UK). My G5RV is oriented so that a line perpendicular to it runs from here in Seattle thru Iceland, just east of the UK, thru central Europe, and then on into Africa (I've also contacted Tanzania) -- I figured that this was the best way to get the most countries in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. Most of my European contacts are on 20m and above, in the early AM to early PM hours here (local time, on the West Coast). What am I doing wrong, or what am I not doing right? - jgc John Clifford KD7KGX Heathkit HW-7, HW-9/HFT-9 Elecraft K2 #1678 (work in progress!) email: kd7kgx at arrl.net +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:46:46 -0400 From: "Jim Worthington" Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Kind of a K2 Question... :-) >I can't seem to heart many stations in Europe (although I've gotten Sweden, >Northern Ireland, Russia [St. Petersburg] and the UK). My G5RV is oriented >so that a line perpendicular to it runs from here in Seattle thru Iceland, >just east of the UK, thru central Europe, and then on into Africa (I've also >contacted Tanzania) -- I figured that this was the best way to get the most >countries in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. Most of my European >contacts are on 20m and above, in the early AM to early PM hours here (local >time, on the West Coast). >What am I doing wrong, or what am I not doing right? Since the G5RV is 3/2 wavelengths on 20 meters (and even more wavelengths on the higher frequency bands), the radiation pattern is different from a 1/2 wave dipole. See http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/8476/standard.htm and click on the links for each band of interest to see the patterns. One other suggestion is to try 40 meters at night (the G5RV pattern is similar to a dipole on that band). Europe isn't hard to work with QRP on 40. Good times to try are within an hour (either way) of your sunset or European sunrise. The cooler months are better than summer. Good luck! - - Jim, AD4J (K2 #1917) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:21:20 -0500 From: Tom Hammond =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=D8SS?= Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Kind of a K2 Question... :-) John: >Here's my question. Although I've managed to contact several DX entities, I >can't seem to heart many stations in Europe (although I've gotten Sweden, >Northern Ireland, Russia [St. Petersburg] and the UK). My G5RV is oriented >so that a line perpendicular to it runs from here in Seattle thru Iceland, >just east of the UK, thru central Europe, and then on into Africa (I've also >contacted Tanzania) -- I figured that this was the best way to get the most >countries in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. Most of my European >contacts are on 20m and above, in the early AM to early PM hours here (local >time, on the West Coast). > >What am I doing wrong, or what am I not doing right? You may well NOT be doing anything wrong! Much of your problem is probably 'locational', rather than 'operational'. Working European DX from the West Coast is SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult than working it from the East Coast. However, working Pacific DX is MUCH easier from the west coars, than from the east coast. East coast stations will probably have, at least, a 10dB (or more) edge over west coasters into Europe... in fact, the east coast sometimes hears Europe when the west NEVER hears it!!! Stations on or near the east coast will always have significant advantages when working Europe/Africa, and certain parts of Asia as well... period! It's a fact of life. And, there are sooo many more countries 'available' to them than there are to west coasters. Your DXing into Europe WILL be on 20M and above... even here in Missouri, we seldom hear much European DX on bands below 20M... and when we do, it's usually because the band conditions are better than usual, OR because our antennas are at altitudes which favor longer-distance contacts, e.g. heights of 60' or more. 40M can often produce good DX into Europe, BUT most of is will be down in the Extra Class segment (7.000-7.025MHz) and will often be operating at CW speeds of 25-35 WPM. So... if you don't have access to the 'right' portions of the band, or your CW proficiency is not (yet) such that you can copy the speeds being sent, it may appear that there's no DX present of the band. Also, European DX to the West coast, will probably only show up after about 0300Z in the evening... I'm kinda guessing here... some of the west cost ops can give you better info on 40M propagation into Europe on 40M. This having been said, it is NOT impossible to work DX (or DXCC) from the west coast, with a G5RV at 30' (or less), AND with QRP! But you won't do it immediately.. and you have to be patient and study the bands and the propagation so you know when the bands should be open best into certain areas of the world. You must also get on the air and learn good operating techniques, such as how/when to call stations, and how to listen. You should also look into ways in which you might get your antenna higher... I don't know where it is right now, but if it's no higher than 30' or so, you may find that another 20'-30' of altitude will help. Also consider the possibility of constructing one or more WIRE BEAMS, pointed in directions of the countries you wish to work. Wire beams are nice because they can be constructed relatively economically and will provide quite a bit more gain than the available from a dipole, especially a G5RV. Hope this helps a bit. 73 - Tom Hammond N0SS ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:52:39 -0700 From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Kind of a K2 Question... :-) John Clifford KD7KGX asked: "... I can't seem to heart many stations in Europe ...My G5RV is oriented so that a line perpendicular to it runs from here in Seattle thru Iceland, just east of the UK, thru central Europe, and then on into Africa ... What am I doing wrong, ..." In addition to the observations about the GR5V pattern by Jim, AD4J, height is also important. Any doublet antenna like the GR5V is essentially omnidirectional with a very high angle of radiation at heights above ground of less than 1/4 wavelength. Casual analysis of a low doublet might show considerable gain, even in the order of 6 dB or so over isotropic, but the major lobe is straight up. The only advantage of that is for working stations on very short skip (<300 km). The useful gain will be very small at radiation angles that would support DX contacts (e.g. appx. 20 degrees above the horizon). Don't expect to see any azimuth patterns that resemble those you see in the diagrams until your height is at least 1/2 wavelength above ground - 60 feet on 40 meters, 30 feet on 20 meters and so on. That's one reason a given doublet seems to 'get out' for DX much better on the higher bands. (The other reason is that when the higher bands are open the path losses are lower and less r-f out usually puts in a better signal at the DX QTH.). For example, at AC7AC I have a very small space that just fits an inverted Vee doublet at a bit over 25 feet high at the peak. I can work into Europe easily on 20 meters and up, but a simple vertical with a marginal ground beats it easily by 6 dB or more on 40 and 30 meters for anything but local contacts. Ron AC7AC K2 # 1289 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:20:01 -0500 From: "Mike Malone" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 40-10 G5RV The 1./2 size G5RV dimensions are two 27' legs for the flat top and a 17 foot feedline of 450 ohm ladder line. (I have seen 300ohm twinlead used here too) Also you might consider a 20 meter EDZ instead. Two 44 foot legs and fed with ladder line. Good gain on 20 and tunes 10 to 40 with no probs. - -----Original Message----- From: Denton Larson To: elecraft at qth.net Date: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:08 PM Subject: [Elecraft] 40-10 G5RV >Hi Guys, > >Does anybody have the dimensions handy for a 40-10 G5RV? I've searched the >web and can't seem to find plans, just places that will sell you one. I just >moved into a new QTH and want to get something quick and temporary, until I >can get the new tower up. (That may be a while tho, have to finish off a >basement) > >Thanks if anybody can help out, BTW I have a new email adddress it was >dlarson at mnic.net >now it's radioguy at frontiernet.net > >73's > >Denton WB0ZUR ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:47:45 -0400 From: "Don Wilhelm" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dipole balaun or not? David, I believe the 'no balun' recommendation for the G5RV stems from the time period that antenna was designed - at that time all baluns were of the voltage type. You will likely have good success with no balun (especially on 20 meters), but if you experience any RF in the shack problems, I would recommend using a good current type balun on a convenient (but short) length of coax. The current balun is really nothing more than an RF choke for currents on the outside of the coax - and the W2DU type (many ferrite beads over the coax) works great. 73, Don W3FPR - ----- Original Message ----- > My K2 is working very well. A question about antennas please? I'm > using a G5RV (102 ft dipole) with 83 ft of open wire feeder right > back to the K2 auto ATU (no coax at all). The books say no balun > with a G5RV, yet I've got to convert the K2's unbalanced output to > my balanced line, haven't I? If I do use a balun, the G5RV is simply > a dipole fed with open wire feeder and multiband anyway? > > Can anyone clarify my confusion? Thanks.Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:47:45 -0400 +++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:18:07 -0700 From: "Ron D' Eau Claire" Subject: RE: [Elecraft] G5RV Gene wrote:' "I maybe wrong but a G5RV uses a piece of coax docent it. Open wire line without a coax is not a G5RV. That antenna uses both I think. The coax is used in the design of the antenna for matching. I have not used a G5RV in many years but I know I used coax with it." It's the other way 'round. Louis Varney (G5RV) specified balanced open-wire feeders going to a balanced ATU. He always objected to the idea of using coaxial line with his antenna. Clearly with the popularity of coaxial lines and ATU's designed for unbalanced lines a lot of hams started tinkering around to come up with some combination that would work using the original G5RV idea, yet be fed by coax. And there are a number of such antennas around today. But Louis often asked why such an antenna would still be called a "G5RV" since it is not the antenna he designed. Ron AC7AC K2 # 1289 ++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:20:51 -0400 From: "Michael" Subject: [Elecraft] G5RV I have a g5rv that I got from Cable Experts that I used for almost a year. Most of my work back then was on 40 meters since all I had was a Norcal 40a. I did check it with a MFJ 259b analyzer and if I remember it tuned most bands with a pretty low swr! I consisted of two 51 ft legs and fed wth 34 ft of 450 ohm window line. At the end of that was an adapter to connect window line to coax. Basically it was like a center insulator that some people use for a dipole. Think about it and you will know what I mean. It was not a balun! Just an adaptor. The antenna worked on 40 with no tuner. Also, it would have worked on several freq. without a tuner. I say that from what the ant analyzer read. I just can't remember what freq they were and the antenna is in my closet now. 73, Michael,kc2fnl ++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:24:55 -0700 From: "Bob Hightower" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRP G5RV? Yes, I've used a G5RV with my K2, with good results. Also made a lightweight version that works as well. Check out the Flamethrower antenna at http://www.extremezone.com/~nk7m/bic.htm That might be what you're looking for. Bob NK7M > Sure seems like the K1/K2 automatic antenna tuners would work well with a > G5RV. Has anyone had any luck using a G5RV at QRP power levels? Better > yet, does anyone know of a QRP version of the G5RV (light weight - > compact like the gusher dipoles)? +++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:23:18 EDT From: K5KW at aol.com To: qrp-l at lehigh.edu Subject: [124792] G5RV Antenna Article Download URL Gang, Several have inquired about the article by the late Louis Varney, G5RV, on his conclusions about his G5RV antenna that I mentioned in a recent response on the reflector. I just looked at the article and it lists the URL of the site from which I downloaded it. It is couresy AA3PX and qsl.net. The complete six page article with 10 diagrams (be sure to download the diagrams, too, 16 pages in all) is available at: www.qsl.net/aa3px/g5rv.htm The article will answer nearly any question that can be posed about the G5RV dipole Don, K5KW Fort Gibson +++++++++++++++++++ From: "Bob - AG5Q" To: "Ira Saber" , Subject: Re: [Elecraft] G5RV Specs Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:18:17 -0600 Hi Ira, Here are a couple of references on the G5RV: http://www.qsl.net/aa3px/g5rv.htm http://www.g3ycc.karoo.net/g5rv.htm 73/ Bob - AG5Q ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ira Saber" To: Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 8:00 PM Subject: [Elecraft] G5RV Specs > TO: Any/All who would care to read and respond > > Anybody have a good www URL for the G5RV antenna?? ++++++++++++++++