+++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:04:13 -0500 From: w2xn at aol.com To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Cc: MagicAggie at aol.com Subject: [Elecraft] re: Flagpole Antenna Ramiro I have a "flagpole" antenna, but it is a regular vertical encased in a 2" PVC pipe. It works quite well with QRP and I use it on all bands from 10 to 40 meters with my K2 and the K2's internal tuner. It is a Hustler 4-BTV that sells for about $119.00 (plus PVC, etc.) You can see it at: http://w2xn.topcities.com/flagpoleantenna.jpg Fred w2xn +++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:27:13 -0500 From: "rich a." Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Flagpole antenna To: MagicAggie at aol.com, elecraft at mailman.qth.net Reply-To: "rich a." Hi Ramiro, There is a photo with short description of a "flagpole" verticle on page 21 of the April 2003 issue of QST. Rich K2CPE ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Flagpole antenna > I need a vertical antenna on my lot for a few reasons, and a flagpole > vertical (flagpole being the radiator, not housing it) seems to justify a lot > of those reasons. Force 12 currently has a special on their flagpole kits. > Size is about 15.5 feet of flagpole,longer if needed. Does anybody have > experience with these type of antennas? It will be for my K1. It will > strictly be for 40,30,20, and 17meters strictly CW, strictly QRP. Will the > KAT1 (K1 internal tuner) be able to tune such a load? Any other vertical > recommendations? > > Ramiro E. Montemayor > KD5MMJ ++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:03:29 -0800 From: Vic Rosenthal Organization: Transparent Software To: MagicAggie at aol.com Cc: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Flagpole antenna MagicAggie at aol.com wrote: > > I need a vertical antenna on my lot for a few reasons, and a flagpole > vertical (flagpole being the radiator, not housing it) seems to justify a lot > of those reasons. Force 12 currently has a special on their flagpole kits. > Size is about 15.5 feet of flagpole,longer if needed. Does anybody have > experience with these type of antennas? It will be for my K1. It will > strictly be for 40,30,20, and 17meters strictly CW, strictly QRP. Will the > KAT1 (K1 internal tuner) be able to tune such a load? Any other vertical > recommendations? I haven't seen this particular antenna in the flesh, though I looked at it on their Website. Based on this, I would say the following: 1) The antenna's performance will be very dependent on the quality of the radial ground system that you can install. I would shoot for a minimum of 16 radials, each one 16 feet long. If you can install 32 radials each 25-30 feet long, that would be significantly better. Follow Force 12's instructions about the placement of the coax balun. 2) The antenna is somewhat short for 40 meters. Force 12 mentions an extension; a 25 foot vertical would be much better on 30/40. Remember, if you are QRP you need a better antenna than the QRO guy! 3) The antenna is just a vertical with no matching circuitry, so it will show a high swr on some bands. Therefore, I suggest that you feed it with RG8/U to reduce the loss, even though you don't need the power-handling capability. The KAT1 will probably match it on all bands. If it doesn't, just change the length of the feedline a bit. The shorter the better, again to reduce loss from the swr on the line. Regarding other verticals: Force 12's 5-band vertical dipoles are small, efficient, and expensive. They do not need a buried radial system. The FluidMotion BigIR vertical does require a ground system, but would be unbeatable with a good one. It's also expensive. Good luck. Vic K2VCO +++++++++++++++++ From: "Peter Halpin" To: , Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Flagpole antenna Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:34:03 +0100 Hi all, Ramiro asked? > Any other vertical recommendations? Try the antenna described at: http://www.qsl.net/ua1oms/dz_antenn.htm Easy and cheap to build, and it matches quite well to 75_Ohm coax. With the K1 or K2 tuner it should be a good 'un, although maybe a few more radials might help? 145, Pete PE1MHO - G7ECN - M3ECN PS: I have a glassfibre flagpole at the end of my garden...it's called "stealth" :-) +++++++++++++++++ From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hans_W=FCest?= To: Subject: Fw: [Elecraft] Flagpole antenna Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:44:28 +0100 > I need a vertical antenna on my lot for a few .... See also the all band "Sommer T-25/S Vertical Antenna" at http://www.sommerantennas.com/t25s.html 73 Hans, AD5DK / HB9OI ++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:45:54 -0800 From: Vic Rosenthal Organization: Transparent Software To: Hans =?iso-8859-1?Q?W=FCest?= Cc: elecraft at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: Fw: [Elecraft] Flagpole antenna Hans Wüest wrote: > > > I need a vertical antenna on my lot for a few .... > > See also the all band "Sommer T-25/S Vertical Antenna" at > > http://www.sommerantennas.com/t25s.html I've tried this one and I emphatically do NOT recommend it. It depends on a loading resistor to smooth out SWR variations, and if the antenna is detuned by the presence of nearby objects, the resistor simply dissipates more power. I was unable to get claimed efficiency (I measured the power going into the resistor) on any band, and SWR was unacceptable on other bands. I spent a lot of time on this and talked to Herr Sommer himself and even he admits that it must be mounted at least half-wavelength from large metal objects, masts, etc. Although it is supposed to work in a less efficient fashion on 80/160 meters, it was entirely worthless on these bands. Even if you can guarantee that the antenna will be clear of conductors that might detune it, it will still be less efficient than an antenna that is not resistor-loaded. And it has a counterpoise which makes it impractical for stealth antenna applications. Vic K2VCO +++++++++++++++++++ From: "peter gerba" To: "Vic Rosenthal" , Cc: Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Flagpole antenna Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:52:37 -0800 I think you would be much better off using a remote tuner at the base of the vertical. Look at SCG or LDG tuners. Also as Vic says the longer the better. I think you can buy a fiberglass flagpole and run a wire or maybe a run of 1/2" plumbing copper up the center? GL, pete kn6bi +++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:27:19 -0500 To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net From: Kevin Cozens Subject: Re: Fw: [Elecraft] Flagpole antenna The Butternut HF-6V antenna worked quite well for me. I had the Butternut vertical mounted at ground level about two feet away from the middle of the chain link fence at the back of the house and without much in the way of ground radials. I have worked 180 DXCC entities using only 100 watts and mostly voice with this antenna. It worked well for me in a small lot with no space or trees for a dipole. YMMV. You could also check out the antennas from Gap (ie. the GAP Challenger). Mind you, the Butternut and Gap antennas can be a bit expensive. I bought mine from another ham who couldn't use it once he moved in to a condo. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) ++++++++++++++++ Reply-To: "John Veach" From: "John Veach" To: Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 07:38:12 -0500 Subject: [Elecraft] flagpole Several years ago I bought a house in an antenna restricted neighborhood ( I know, stupidity knows no bounds) I got permission from the homeowners association to install a 20 foot flagpole. I mounted this pole in the back yard, running radials under the sod and some into the lake at the edge of the lawn. I also put an SGC smartuner in the concrete base of the flagpole. It worked well on 40-10, but just didn't cut it on 80m. John KE4D www.TheRollingHome.com ++++++++++++++++++++