+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 11:27:03 -0700 From: Phil Wheeler Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna analyzer's Terry Kniffen wrote: > > To All - > > I still think the MFJ is a usable unit. At least I hope so, as I'm stuck > with one. Recently acquired, I used it a couple of times, but could use some > help. > > At this point I'm somewhat 'antenna theory challenged and the instructions > that come with the MFJ assume that one has a little more than basic > knowledge of same. > > My question is this: Is there such a thing as a MFJ-259B tutor for the likes > of me (a beginner in do-your-self antennas)? In other words, how do I learn > to get the most from this instrument besides reading the SWR (or is that the > bottom line; no pun intended)? Terry, Did you get a manual with it? If not you might be able to download one from the MFJ site. The best "how to use it" stuff I've seen came with my Autek analyzer. There is a snippet from this material at: http://www.autekresearch.com/uses.htm I also have one of the MFJ units (not the latest model). But I probably can't find the manual :-; 73, Phil W7OX +++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: owner-elecraft at qth.net [mailto:owner-elecraft at qth.net]On Behalf Of George, W5YR Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:37 PM To: benlightnd1 Cc: elecraft at qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna analyzer's If cost is your main consideration, then the MFJ is probably the best choice. If actual utility and quality is involved, the AEA/Tempo CIA-HF or VIA is the best choice. These units will plot various parameters vs frequency which is an unbeleivable advantage over the MFJ which can only take spot frequency readings. You can learn more with the AEA unit about an antenna system in 5 minutes than with the MFJ in an hour. 72/73, George W5YR - the Yellow Rose of Texas QRP-L 1373 NETXQRP 6 Fairview, TX 30 mi NE of Dallas in Collin county EM13qe Amateur Radio W5YR, in the 55th year and it just keeps getting better! Icom IC-756PRO #02121 Kachina #91900556 IC-765 #02437 benlightnd1 wrote: > > Fellow elecrafters: > > I know this is off the beat a little but needed some advise from the > group. > Local hamfest is Saturday and I am going to pick up an > antenna analyzer. > Seems that MFJ's 259-B is the favored meter. > Looking for your opinion of what I should be looking for. > Not in type of functions performed but in named brand. > Who has the best bang for the buck??? > Also, if you are using the 259-B, have you tryed the > dip meter coupling coil? How does it work with > winding coils, figuring frequencies, etc. > Thanks in advance for any input: ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 14:10:07 -0500 From: "N0SA" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna analyzers I have owned all three analyzers and now I have the AEA. I started with the Autek then got an MFJ. I sold both for the AEA CIA-HF. I'm not wealthy but I had a chunk of money to spend so I got the CIA unit. I like to play with antennas so it was well worth the cost to me. If a person just wants to put up a few antennas and adjust them for low SWR then any one will do just fine. The MFJ does more than the Autek and is a little easier to adjust. They both have pros and cons. But I liked them both. The CIA -HF is in a league of it's own both in performance and cost. To me it was well worth it. The only thing with the AEA unit was I had a hard time reading inductance and capacitance easily. My cure was to fork out another $100 for an L/C meter kit made by Almost All Digital Electronics. This is a great tool and very accurate. I just built a multi band vertical that works on 40 thru 10 meters. I used the CIA-HF, the L/C meter and TLW software from the ARRL Antenna Book. I designed and built an 'L' network with three coils and a variable cap that tunes all seven bands. It was quite easy to do and the networks I built and hooked up only needed slight tweaking. All the readings and measurements were quite accurate. So the CIA-HF is worth it to me. To sum up, if you just want a quick easy way to adjust an antenna any will do but if you really want to experiment and not fool around with a bunch of math and guesswork the CIA-HF in my opinion is easily worth the money. Larry N0SA +++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 15:08:00 -0500 From: "George, W5YR" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Antenna analyzers I agree, Larry - I, too, got the AADE L/C Meter . . . fantastic little machine for the price. 72/73, George W5YR - the Yellow Rose of Texas QRP-L 1373 NETXQRP 6 Fairview, TX 30 mi NE of Dallas in Collin county EM13qe Amateur Radio W5YR, in the 55th year and it just keeps getting better! Icom IC-756PRO #02121 Kachina #91900556 IC-765 #02437 N0SA wrote: My cure was to fork out another $100 for an L/C meter > kit made by Almost All Digital Electronics. This is a great tool and very > accurate ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:44:55 -0600 From: "Steve Banks" Subject: [Elecraft] Terry- I too own an MFJ 259B and I have the manual. I'd be glad to loan you my manual if you can't get one from MFJ or find it on their website. The 259B is fine for its intended purpose. Its "twitchy" frequency tuning can be a little bothersome, but it will give you a good overall idea of VSWR and complex impedance of your antenna systems. (The +/- sign of reactance and/or phase angle is not given with the 259B, but that may not be too much of a problem for most work.) It's not what I'd call a laboratory-grade instrument, but it beats the sox off of pure guesswork! Also, try reading Chapter 19, Transmission Lines, of the ARRL Handbook, 2001 Ed. There is no doubt a ton of other similar resources to help you get some of the theory in mind, but the subject of transmission lines, and that chapter, is always where I come back to whenever I'm stumped about how things are behaving. Just remember: Circuits whose physical dimensions are close to (or greater than) a 1/4 wavelength of the operating frequency (like antennas and their feedlines), behave differently than we usually think they might. Chapter 29 and a decent meter will help you (me too) understand what's happening. Steve Banks K0PQ K2 S/N 1599 ++++++++++++++++++++ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:41:43 -0500 From: "George, W5YR" To: , "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [151852] Re: Antenna Analyzers I have used the AEA CIA-HF for about three years now. In a word, it is indispensable. The graphing feature plus its inherent accuracy and convenience, etc. make it the clear winner over the others. I find it completely sufficient within itself. Major problem is its inability to get the sign of jX always correct. Easy to compensate by changing the frequency a little up and a little down and seeing how the magnitude of X changes. But there are situations where that can be misleading. I think that the unit is best used with one of the several control programs which improve upon the plotting and do the sign-of jX juggling for you. Apart from that operational "con" the price is the big drawback. I paid about $400 for mine several years ago and they are up to $600 now. They have brought out a new deluxe version which does about everything for $1999! I can't think of any other instrument that can duplicate what it can do, especially a GDO or noise bridge. I had the Autek but sold it almost immediately as being inaccurate and almost unusable. One or two other points: the CIA makes a great signal generator. Dial accuracy is within 200 Hz from about 100 kHz to well above 50 MHz. Accuracy depends to a large extent upon using a good stiff power supply capable of at least an amp. Inadequate current capacity results in a distorted waveform and that causes all manner of errors. 73/72, George Amateur Radio W5YR - the Yellow Rose of Texas Fairview, TX 30 mi NE of Dallas in Collin county EM13QE "In the 57th year and it just keeps getting better!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Moon" To: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 4:42 PM Subject: Antenna Analyzers > Hi-- > I want to try some stringing up some wire HF antennas & will probably get an > antenna analyzer to test the results. I've looked at the e-Ham reviews & ads > in QST & websites. Between $200 and $400 I see three prime candidates: the > Autek VA-1, the MFJ-259B, and the AEA CIA-HF. > > What I wonder is--Which analyzer has the most *useful features* for > evaluating or tweaking an antenna? > > I'm asking about operation, not sturdiness of the case, quality of the > solder joints, etc. The ads and comments focus on different features--this > one tells you Q, that one the sign of X, this one gives some results as a > graph, etc., etc. But do they tell you what you need to know? Furthermore, > not all the claims are as simple as they seem (yes, this one advertises that > it gives you the velocity factor--but doesn't mention that you have to > measure the feedline length by hand, then do the necessary math, and if your > arithmetic is correct, *then* you'll know the VF...). > > So, did you get one & find that in the field you needed information it > couldn't provide? Do you have more than one antenna analyzer & keep leaving > the same one in the closet? Do you think the best choice (for amateur use) > is something else? Maybe you use a GDO & think everything else is just > hooey? > > Thanks very much! > 72/73, > Max, k0max > +++++++++++++++++ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:52:13 -0400 From: steve.lawrence at itwfeg.com To: maxmoon at umn.edu Cc: "Low Power Amateur Radio Discussion" Subject: [151884] Re: Antenna Analyzers Max, I own both the Autek VA-1, and the MFJ-259 (early model) which are priced in the same neighborhood..... comments on both: Autek VA-1 - small, compact, pocket sized, very portable - single 9v battery "friendly"... not too power hungry - very touchy tuning controls - digital readout makes it harder to spot a dip in SWR - coverage to 32MHz - single source, one price (direct from manufacturer) MFJ - larger package is a bit more cumbersome, say when using it while up on a tower or when a portable unit is needed for field work - power hungry (I think 10 x AA cells, but you can use rechargables) - convenient meters help you see when you're sneaking up on a dip in SWR or impedance -- in general I like the displays and controls on the MFJ better than the VA-1 - easier to tune - coverage to 170MHz (covers 6M and 2M band) - multiple sources, and sometimes can be found on sale or below list price Accuracy, while suspect, is "good enough for Amateur work". Neither of these are laboratory instruments -- to get more, you will pay several times more! For example, I've seen issues with the correct determination of the sign of X (capacitive or inductive reactance?), but this can be worked around. I believe there are reviews on the ARRL web site for both instruments. The MFJ site lets you download the user manual. In summary? Neither of these units are clear winners in my book. Both are adequate. The MFJ controls/display are a bit easier to work with. If I could only have one? Of these two, I'd lean towards the MFJ... Now I've looked over the graphing units with interest: the AEA CIA, and the Bird AT-100 -- expect to pay much more. GL, Steve aa8af +++++++++++++++++++