From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Aug 2 20:31:24 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id UAA00265 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 20:31:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:30:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Scott C. Best" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] FCC proposed mod to FH bandwidth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Zoiks. Musta been sleeping when this news broke back in June: www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Notices/1999/fcc99149.txt -Scott --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Aug 2 21:11:29 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id VAA01410 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:11:28 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: dewayne@mail.warpspeed.com Message-Id: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 19:02:26 -0700 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Dewayne Hendricks Subject: [ss] Re: FCC proposed mod to FH bandwidth Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 18:30 -0700 8/2/99, Scott C. Best wrote: >Zoiks. Musta been sleeping when this news broke back in June: > >www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Notices/1999/fcc99149.txt Not really. I've known about it since it came out. Nothing much to do with amateur radio and its use of spread spectrum. I do intend to file comments on it though. -- Dewayne --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Aug 3 12:33:46 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id MAA09087 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:33:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:31:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Scott C. Best" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: FCC proposed mod to FH bandwidth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dewayne: Glad to hear that people on the tech-council of the FCC hear about these things in good order. ;) Though, I'm curious why you feel it has nothing much to do with spread-spectrum amatuer radio. I mean, TAPR's working on a FH'r for wireless internet access, and much of the derision I've read aimed at such solutions centers on the cost/speed ratio. While I'm hardly an expert, it seems that opening the 20dB bandwidth to 5MHz instead of 1MHz will allow for higher data-rate systems using the more commercially tractable FHSS as opposed to DS. Not to mention the impact on current DS systems trying to coexist with FH ones. Anyhow, just curious what the experts think. Thanks... -Scott > At 18:30 -0700 8/2/99, Scott C. Best wrote: > >Zoiks. Musta been sleeping when this news broke back in June: > > > >www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Notices/1999/fcc99149.txt > > Not really. I've known about it since it came out. Nothing > much to do with amateur radio and its use of spread spectrum. I do > intend to file comments on it though. > > -- Dewayne > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: sbest00@svpal.org > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Aug 3 14:01:45 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id OAA11574 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:01:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:59:13 -0500 From: Jake Janovetz To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: FCC proposed mod to FH bandwidth References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: ; from Scott C. Best on Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 10:31:35AM -0700 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <19990803135913.A10157@tempest.ece.uiuc.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Aren't amateurs given a different set of rules in the band, though? I know that in the 900 MHz band amateurs are given higher power allotments, etc. Isn't it true of the 2.4G? DS are becoming more and more commercially tractable (and preferable) as time goes on. Cheers, Jake On Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 10:31:35AM -0700, Scott C. Best wrote: > Dewayne: > > Glad to hear that people on the tech-council of the FCC > hear about these things in good order. ;) > Though, I'm curious why you feel it has nothing much > to do with spread-spectrum amatuer radio. I mean, TAPR's > working on a FH'r for wireless internet access, and much > of the derision I've read aimed at such solutions centers on > the cost/speed ratio. While I'm hardly an expert, it seems > that opening the 20dB bandwidth to 5MHz instead of 1MHz > will allow for higher data-rate systems using the more > commercially tractable FHSS as opposed to DS. > > Not to mention the impact on current DS systems > trying to coexist with FH ones. > Anyhow, just curious what the experts think. Thanks... > > -Scott > > > > At 18:30 -0700 8/2/99, Scott C. Best wrote: > > >Zoiks. Musta been sleeping when this news broke back in June: > > > > > >www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Notices/1999/fcc99149.txt > > > > Not really. I've known about it since it came out. Nothing > > much to do with amateur radio and its use of spread spectrum. I do > > intend to file comments on it though. > > > > -- Dewayne > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: sbest00@svpal.org > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org -- janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, | there you long to return. -- da Vinci PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Aug 3 15:40:32 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id PAA14946 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:40:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Jeremy McMillan" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [ss] Re: FCC proposed mod to FH bandwidth Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:43:55 -0500 Organization: CBOE Systems Operations Support MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <004601beddf0$e8429600$904b89aa@cboe.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Amateurs, if they have a liscence to operate in 900MHz, are by virtue of a liscence given a specific level of FCC protection from interference (maybe very little, but specified in the liscence). Unliscenced 900MHz operation is given no protection. It is legal to operate 900MHz transmitters, but not above certain emission levels. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jake Janovetz To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 1:59 PM Subject: [ss] Re: FCC proposed mod to FH bandwidth > Aren't amateurs given a different set of rules in the band, though? > I know that in the 900 MHz band amateurs are given higher > power allotments, etc. Isn't it true of the 2.4G? > > DS are becoming more and more commercially tractable (and > preferable) as time goes on. > > Cheers, > Jake > > > On Tue, Aug 03, 1999 at 10:31:35AM -0700, Scott C. Best wrote: > > Dewayne: > > > > Glad to hear that people on the tech-council of the FCC > > hear about these things in good order. ;) > > Though, I'm curious why you feel it has nothing much > > to do with spread-spectrum amatuer radio. I mean, TAPR's > > working on a FH'r for wireless internet access, and much > > of the derision I've read aimed at such solutions centers on > > the cost/speed ratio. While I'm hardly an expert, it seems > > that opening the 20dB bandwidth to 5MHz instead of 1MHz > > will allow for higher data-rate systems using the more > > commercially tractable FHSS as opposed to DS. > > > > Not to mention the impact on current DS systems > > trying to coexist with FH ones. > > Anyhow, just curious what the experts think. Thanks... > > > > -Scott > > > > > > > At 18:30 -0700 8/2/99, Scott C. Best wrote: > > > >Zoiks. Musta been sleeping when this news broke back in June: > > > > > > > >www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Notices/1999/fcc99149.txt > > > > > > Not really. I've known about it since it came out. Nothing > > > much to do with amateur radio and its use of spread spectrum. I do > > > intend to file comments on it though. > > > > > > -- Dewayne > > > > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: sbest00@svpal.org > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > -- > janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with > University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, > | there you long to return. -- da Vinci > PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Aug 4 10:57:27 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id KAA28419 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:57:26 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: dewayne@mail.warpspeed.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:54:33 -0700 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Dewayne Hendricks Subject: [ss] IEEE 802.11 Counters Proposed FCC Rulemaking Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk IEEE 802.11 Counters Proposed FCC Rulemaking The IEEE 802.11 working group closed out its last session by writing a letter to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in response to their Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) on wideband frequency hopped (WBFH) spread spectrum. [Note: A pretty good synopsis of what happened at the recent IEEE 802.11 meeting with regards to the FH NPRM that has been recently discussed on this list. The most interesting conclusion is that the 802.11 Working Group is filing comments against the proposed rule change. DLH] --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Aug 4 11:32:52 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id LAA29048 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:32:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:32:03 -0300 From: Carlos Pantaleao MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Spread Spectrum References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by gpeb01.gpeb.ufsc.br id OAA19768 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <37A86B03.CBE36401@gpeb.ufsc.br> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id LAA29048 I am a 1st year doctorate student in UFSC - Brasil and, currently I am need to learn systems Receiver/Transmitter based in spread spectrum communications technology in amateur radio service. I am a novice this area and I would like to have some documents or references of priciples and practical considerations this systems. Best regards, Carlos Henrique Zanelato Pantalećo panta@gpeb.ufsc.br --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Aug 4 14:05:50 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id OAA03870 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:05:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [195.24.196.213] From: "valantine nyenty" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Spread Spectrum Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:56:04 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <19990804185606.47795.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Check the following web sites for preliminary imformation: http://sss-mag.com ( tutorials on spread spectrum technology) http://rfglobalnet.com (Radio frequency design ) http://www.minicircuits.com ( A hand full of application notes explaining parameters of ICs in the radio unit of a transmiter /Receiver Courage! >From: Carlos Pantaleao >Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" >To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" >Subject: [ss] Spread Spectrum >Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:32:03 -0300 > > > > I am a 1st year doctorate student in UFSC - Brasil and, currently >I am >need to learn systems Receiver/Transmitter based in spread spectrum >communications technology in amateur radio service. I am a novice this >area >and I would like to have some documents or references of priciples and >practical considerations this systems. > > Best regards, > Carlos Henrique Zanelato >Pantalećo > panta@gpeb.ufsc.br > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: vnchemty@hotmail.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Aug 11 08:58:42 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id IAA07380 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:58:42 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: dewayne@mail.warpspeed.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:53:42 -0700 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Dewayne Hendricks Subject: [ss] Hatfield on UWB and SDR Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dale Hatfield, Chief of the FCC's OET gave a talk a few days ago a the '1999 IEEE Radio and Wireless Conference' on the topic "The Regulatory Challenges of New Wireless Technologies: Ultrawideband and Software Defined Radios". This one is worth checking out!!! You can find it on-line at: -- Dewayne --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Aug 18 11:57:07 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id LAA19092 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:57:06 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:49:59 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Greg Jones Subject: [ss] Fwd: backbone to the FHSS project List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Something of interest I received that I thought I would share with the list. Cheers - Greg >X-Sender: ka5dwr@tapr.org >Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:57:35 -0500 >To: greg@tapr.org >From: "Marcel, Hamoperator SM0UGT Bos" >Subject: backbone to the FHSS project >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Status: > >There is now ongoing a new project with its goal to create a 10Mbit >Microwave kit. Much efforts has Allready been made, and the ones who feels >that they have a call for this sort of stuff are very much wellcome to join >us. People of intrests are they who has writeln ethernet protocols, people >who has wiroked with microwaves - PCB design and the rest who feels that >they can contribute with something needed inhere. > >The project style are driven in the Linux project model. > >There is in some locations a badly need of infrastructure in some places >and at the same time a very bad usement of the 44 andresses, and that is >something I have in mind to change by this. So fellows who feels that the >old packetradio standard needs a major upgrade, then please join us. > > >To join, and for more information about the mailinglist > >Enter :www.abc.se/~m8114/hamradio > >/Marcel Bos >Sweden > > ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Aug 18 18:16:14 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id SAA29414 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:16:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [195.100.177.67] From: "Hamoperator SM7UGT Marcel bos" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Status on The TAPR SS project?! Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:14:48 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <19990818231448.70650.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I have waited long now - Just wonder WHEN the first release of the TAPR Spreadspectrum modem will come out.. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Aug 18 20:33:12 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id UAA02789 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:33:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [195.100.177.67] From: "Hamoperator SM7UGT Marcel bos" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Fwd: backbone to the FHSS project /Marcel Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:31:38 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <19990819013139.5035.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi Greg - and others.. You can check the drawings at www.qsl.net/ke5fx of the 10Mbit microwave datalink Just for the moment we wait on our first load of components from our dealer in the US. (we got a cind sponsor) However.. Personaly I LIKE to see the FHSS project in goal. I find our link together with the FHSS project as a great harmony thing. Our link takes the head traffic in and from the towns. The FHSS modem take care of the user-operator paths. There is however one hatch for eropean users- I Like to see that modem at the 433 Mhz band instead of the 915 Mhz.. - Sweden and europe uses this band for GSM traffic (Cellular) /Marcel >From: Greg Jones >Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" >To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" >Subject: [ss] Fwd: backbone to the FHSS project >Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:49:59 -0500 > >Something of interest I received that I thought I would share with the >list. > >Cheers - Greg > > >X-Sender: ka5dwr@tapr.org > >Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:57:35 -0500 > >To: greg@tapr.org > >From: "Marcel, Hamoperator SM0UGT Bos" > >Subject: backbone to the FHSS project > >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >Status: > > > >There is now ongoing a new project with its goal to create a 10Mbit > >Microwave kit. Much efforts has Allready been made, and the ones who >feels > >that they have a call for this sort of stuff are very much wellcome to >join > >us. People of intrests are they who has writeln ethernet protocols, >people > >who has wiroked with microwaves - PCB design and the rest who feels that > >they can contribute with something needed inhere. > > > >The project style are driven in the Linux project model. > > > >There is in some locations a badly need of infrastructure in some places > >and at the same time a very bad usement of the 44 andresses, and that is > >something I have in mind to change by this. So fellows who feels that >the > >old packetradio standard needs a major upgrade, then please join us. > > > > > >To join, and for more information about the mailinglist > > > >Enter :www.abc.se/~m8114/hamradio > > > >/Marcel Bos > >Sweden > > > > > >----- >Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas >wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: SM1UGT@HOTMAIL.COM >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Aug 18 21:27:50 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id VAA04155 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 21:27:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: rwmcgwier@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:25:41 -0400 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Robert McGwier Subject: [ss] Re: backbone to the FHSS project /Marcel In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.19990818222433.0092d750@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk What does running ethernet on a gunn plexer directly modulating an FM transmitter have to do with direct sequence spread spectrum? NOTHING. Bob At 06:31 PM 8/18/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >Hi Greg - and others.. You can check the drawings at www.qsl.net/ke5fx of >the 10Mbit microwave datalink > >Just for the moment we wait on our first load of components >from our dealer in the US. (we got a cind sponsor) > >However.. > >Personaly I LIKE to see the FHSS project in goal. I find >our link together with the FHSS project as a great >harmony thing. Our link takes the head traffic in and from >the towns. The FHSS modem take care of the user-operator >paths. There is however one hatch for eropean users- I Like >to see that modem at the 433 Mhz band instead of the 915 Mhz.. >- Sweden and europe uses this band for GSM traffic (Cellular) > >/Marcel > > > >>From: Greg Jones >>Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" >>To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" >>Subject: [ss] Fwd: backbone to the FHSS project >>Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:49:59 -0500 >> >>Something of interest I received that I thought I would share with the >>list. >> >>Cheers - Greg >> >> >X-Sender: ka5dwr@tapr.org >> >Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:57:35 -0500 >> >To: greg@tapr.org >> >From: "Marcel, Hamoperator SM0UGT Bos" >> >Subject: backbone to the FHSS project >> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >> >Status: >> > >> >There is now ongoing a new project with its goal to create a 10Mbit >> >Microwave kit. Much efforts has Allready been made, and the ones who >>feels >> >that they have a call for this sort of stuff are very much wellcome to >>join >> >us. People of intrests are they who has writeln ethernet protocols, >>people >> >who has wiroked with microwaves - PCB design and the rest who feels that >> >they can contribute with something needed inhere. >> > >> >The project style are driven in the Linux project model. >> > >> >There is in some locations a badly need of infrastructure in some places >> >and at the same time a very bad usement of the 44 andresses, and that is >> >something I have in mind to change by this. So fellows who feels that >>the >> >old packetradio standard needs a major upgrade, then please join us. >> > >> > >> >To join, and for more information about the mailinglist >> > >> >Enter :www.abc.se/~m8114/hamradio >> > >> >/Marcel Bos >> >Sweden >> > >> > >> >>----- >>Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas >>wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd >> >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to ss as: SM1UGT@HOTMAIL.COM >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org >> > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: RWMCGWIER@HOME.COM >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Aug 19 05:53:36 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id FAA01623 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 05:53:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:46:25 +0100 (BST) Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Organization: Tobit Computer Co Ltd Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org From: Dirk Koopman To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: backbone to the FHSS project /Marcel List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: Precedence: bulk On 19-Aug-99 Robert McGwier wrote: > What does running ethernet on a gunn plexer directly modulating > an FM transmitter have to do with direct sequence spread > spectrum? NOTHING. Not quite... The bandwidth requirements are very similar :-) --- Dirk-Jan Koopman, Tobit Computer Co Ltd At the source of every error which is blamed on the computer you will find at least two human errors, including the error of blaming it on the computer. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Aug 19 05:56:24 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id FAA01673 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 05:56:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 22:54:58 +1200 From: "M.A.PINFOLD" Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Organization: HOME MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: backbone to the FHSS project /Marcel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <37BBE282.609D@xtra.co.nz> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Robert McGwier wrote: > > What does running ethernet on a gunn plexer directly modulating > an FM transmitter have to do with direct sequence spread > spectrum? NOTHING. > > Bob > > At 06:31 PM 8/18/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi Greg - and others.. You can check the drawings at www.qsl.net/ke5fx of > >the 10Mbit microwave datalink > > > >Just for the moment we wait on our first load of components > >from our dealer in the US. (we got a cind sponsor) > > > >However.. > > > >Personaly I LIKE to see the FHSS project in goal. I find > >our link together with the FHSS project as a great > >harmony thing. Our link takes the head traffic in and from > >the towns. The FHSS modem take care of the user-operator > >paths. There is however one hatch for eropean users- I Like > >to see that modem at the 433 Mhz band instead of the 915 Mhz.. > >- Sweden and europe uses this band for GSM traffic (Cellular) > > > >/Marcel > > > > > > > >>From: Greg Jones > >>Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" > >>To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" > >>Subject: [ss] Fwd: backbone to the FHSS project > >>Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:49:59 -0500 > >> > >>Something of interest I received that I thought I would share with the > >>list. > >> > >>Cheers - Greg > >> > >> >X-Sender: ka5dwr@tapr.org > >> >Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:57:35 -0500 > >> >To: greg@tapr.org > >> >From: "Marcel, Hamoperator SM0UGT Bos" > >> >Subject: backbone to the FHSS project > >> >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >> >Status: > >> > > >> >There is now ongoing a new project with its goal to create a 10Mbit > >> >Microwave kit. Much efforts has Allready been made, and the ones who > >>feels > >> >that they have a call for this sort of stuff are very much wellcome to > >>join > >> >us. People of intrests are they who has writeln ethernet protocols, > >>people > >> >who has wiroked with microwaves - PCB design and the rest who feels that > >> >they can contribute with something needed inhere. > >> > > >> >The project style are driven in the Linux project model. > >> > > >> >There is in some locations a badly need of infrastructure in some places > >> >and at the same time a very bad usement of the 44 andresses, and that is > >> >something I have in mind to change by this. So fellows who feels that > >>the > >> >old packetradio standard needs a major upgrade, then please join us. > >> > > >> > > >> >To join, and for more information about the mailinglist > >> > > >> >Enter :www.abc.se/~m8114/hamradio > >> > > >> >/Marcel Bos > >> >Sweden > >> > > >> > > >> > >>----- > >>Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas > >>wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd > >> > >> > >> > >>--- > >>You are currently subscribed to ss as: SM1UGT@HOTMAIL.COM > >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > >> > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to ss as: RWMCGWIER@HOME.COM > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: PINFOLD@XTRA.CO.NZ > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org dont be such a wet blanket we all cant be experts!Im pleased the site was bought too my attention I can learn from it cheers mike ZL1BTB --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Aug 19 09:16:15 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id JAA06050 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:16:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [195.100.177.67] From: "Hamoperator SM7UGT Marcel bos" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: backbone to the FHSS project /Marcel Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 07:14:30 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <19990819141431.3141.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk It has nothing to do with it - not at all. But it has if you are intrested to build a lage hispeed infrastructure. Therefore I said BACKBONE to the FHSS project. What I remeber the FHSS modems could only handel 128Kbit/sek. The microwave link can provide the distibution lan Since its much faster- the FHSS modems can provide conectivity to the endusers - without the need of working as distribution lan too. This WILL slow down the system to the old 1k2 days in zerotime with the userbase they gonna get. If you don't find this solotion intresting well - I can't help it. Make another. I just wanted to promote a solotion was fast, cheap, easy. >From: Dirk Koopman >Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" >To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" >Subject: [ss] Re: backbone to the FHSS project /Marcel >Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:46:25 +0100 (BST) > > >On 19-Aug-99 Robert McGwier wrote: > > What does running ethernet on a gunn plexer directly modulating > > an FM transmitter have to do with direct sequence spread > > spectrum? NOTHING. > >Not quite... The bandwidth requirements are very similar :-) > >--- >Dirk-Jan Koopman, Tobit Computer Co Ltd >At the source of every error which is blamed on the computer you will find >at least two human errors, including the error of blaming it on the >computer. > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: SM1UGT@HOTMAIL.COM >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Aug 19 13:54:25 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id NAA14011 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:54:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: From: "Vazquez, Miguel" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: backbone to the FHSS project /Marcel Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:03:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The gunplexer 10Mb link, in my personal oppinion i'ts an interesting OPTION as an alternative way to stablishment for a real backbone, high-speed radio network, and if certainly has nothing to do with SS, it's another RADIO alternative that may approach us to get our goals materialized, Don't you think so? Miguel Dario Vasquez Zarate, IUSACELL Ingenieria Zona Norte Tel (16) 203102 Fax (16) 203091 Beeper (16) 191596 pin 9950062 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Aug 20 05:18:36 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id FAA22905 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 05:18:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [195.100.177.67] From: "Hamoperator SM7UGT Marcel bos" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: backbone to the FHSS project /Marcel Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 03:15:56 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <19990820101557.58757.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk That was my point.. >From: "Vazquez, Miguel" >Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" >To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" >Subject: [ss] Re: backbone to the FHSS project /Marcel >Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:03:06 -0500 > >The gunplexer 10Mb link, in my personal oppinion i'ts an interesting OPTION >as an alternative way to stablishment for a real backbone, high-speed radio >network, and if certainly has nothing to do with SS, it's another RADIO >alternative that may approach us to get our goals materialized, Don't you >think so? > >Miguel Dario Vasquez Zarate, IUSACELL Ingenieria Zona Norte >Tel (16) 203102 Fax (16) 203091 Beeper (16) 191596 pin 9950062 > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: SM1UGT@HOTMAIL.COM >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Aug 28 11:36:00 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id LAA28767 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:35:59 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:23:35 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Greg Jones Subject: [ss] FHSS Radio Design Update List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk An update to the radio project status has been put up on the web page. There will be a full project report and update at the DCC (http://www.tapr.org/dcc). We hope you can attend this year's DCC, it is shaping up well. We will also be making a significant announcement at the DCC concerning future development of the radio. The web page can be found at http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/ssf.html ----------------- TAPR 900MHz FHSS Radio Design Update August, 1999 To update the status of the TAPR FHSS radio project: we brought on two additional members to the design team a few months ago, John Schroeder, K5ZMJ, and David Cummings, WA5TET. John and David have been working on revising the RF board. We found that due to a miscommunication with our board shop, that the dielectric thickness between the board core and the outer signal layers was only 7.5 mils, instead of the expected 25 mils. This lowered the effective impedance of the 50-ohm microstrip lines down to 21 ohms, which has caused problems with the RF signal levels. Additionally, several of the RF components that we used on the original layout of the RF board have since been discontinued. So John and David are redesigning the RF board to eliminate those parts, and substitute them for more general-purpose parts that we hope will have a longer production lifetime. A more difficult part cancellation was that of the Motorola MC145750 QPSK modulator component. This part provided a number of functions in a single, compact IC. Unfortunately only having available limited documentation we were not able to get the phase-locked loop on it to operate. This, coupled along with it's production cancellation has forced us into a difficult redesign. Several years ago this type of redesign would have been virtually impossible for us to cope with, but thanks to improving FPGA technology, we are going to implement the baseband FIR filters for the modulator in a Xilinx FPGA (Field programmable Gate Array) component. One of the great difficulties with high-speed digital data radios is implementing the modulation filters. We need a large number of taps with a significant amount of precision of the coefficient values. The processing requirements (high data rate, lots of taps) places the computational load beyond what almost any general-purpose software-programmable DSP chips is able to accomplish. Fortunately, Xilinx has released a 'core' generator for their FPGA parts which implement in bit-serial arithmetic symmetric and non-symmetric FIR (Finite Impulse Response) digital filters. Our computation shows that they will be just fast enough to implement our modem filters. These filters will provide square-root of raised-cosine shaping to the transmit baseband I- and Q- channels. This logic will be added to new logic we have to generate for differentially-coding and word-formatting the QPSK symbols. Previously, we had also implemented the symbol-timing recovery logic in a small FPGA for the Harris QPSK demodulator, so we can put all of these different logic functions into a single Xilinx device. Current estimates are that it will take about 40,000 gates of logic to fit all of this into a single FPGA. We've identified the proper parts, and the costs are within the design tolerance. Fortunately, the part comes in a 100-pin quad leaded flat pack that is amazingly small, so Bob Stricklin, N5BRG is confident he can fit it and a new dual D/A converter all onto the existing digital board. The D/A converter is from Analog Devices - it provides 2x interpolation of the signals which reduces the demands on the reconstruction filters after the analog output port. All the parts are surface-mount, and the FPGA has small lead spacing (about 20 mils) like the Motorola processor part (get out your microscope to probe these parts!). All of these changes will result in the interface between the digital and analog radio boards being changed to baseband I- and Q- in both the transmit and receive directions. One benefit of doing this is that we will be able to test many of the receiver functions of the digital board by looping back the transmit signals to the receive signals. It also removes all of the digital baseband processing form the RF board - so hopefully the RF board will be easier to port to new frequencies in the future. We now have design kits for the Xilinx components, and have begun coding and testing the logic. The Xilinx parts contain internal RAM to implement the logic configuration of the gates. Normally, a serial FLASH prom is used on the PC board to load the Xilinx part with it's logic functionality. We are instead going to implement a loader in the 68360 microprocessor. This will allow us to put all of the logic for the part into the software configuration of the radio, and alter the actual logic in the part with updates to the software, only. The code will be in the microprocessor's FLASH memory, and the processor will download the FPGA during the boot-up time. Unfortunately, all of this redesign and component substitution has of course delayed the project. Our hope is that by beefing up the design staff we can put the RF and baseband design efforts in parallel, and keep things moving. One lesson learned is that ham radio projects now have to be finished within the production lifetime of the components used on the project - and those times are shrinking FAST! Tom McDermott, N5EG ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Aug 28 13:30:01 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id NAA01851 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:30:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: rwmcgwier@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:50:49 -0400 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Robert McGwier Subject: [ss] FHSS design page Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.19990828134615.0091ecb0@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Greg, et. al.: Sorry to be coming in the door late and chiming in with my two cents but .... So long as you are willing to go to the trouble of using FPGA, you can do the FIR work with O(N ln N) operations rather than O(N^2) operations and get really long filters. This is done by doing linear convolutions using FFT's and doing the overlap save or overlap add method to turn the circular convolution into linear convolution with a little overhead (overhead in length of filter and memory requirements). You can get LONG "brick wall" FIR filters doing it this way. Has this been considered? Given that you are willing to put in the huge delay line anyway, this can't be that much more expensive. Thanks for the review. It is very interesting. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sun Aug 29 12:26:42 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id MAA21636 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:26:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:22:56 -0500 From: Jake Janovetz To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: FHSS design page References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: ; from Robert McGwier on Sat, Aug 28, 1999 at 01:50:49PM -0400 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <19990829122256.B24735@tempest.ece.uiuc.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Bob, If I read the update correctly, they are using FIR filters in the modulator which doesn't need high-order filtering. In fact, the filters are used with incoming impulses to generated the modulated signal -- not really filtering anything in the way we usually think of it. My point is that FIR filters are preferred to FFTs in modulation tasks. Also, I don't know which FPGA they chose, but a 1024-point FFT (big for the task) requires several hundred CLBs. An alternative to FIR modulation is using wavetables. Personally, I'd say waveform synthesis is a better solution to the FHSS problem, but I don't know exactly what their constraints are. Cheers, Jake On Sat, Aug 28, 1999 at 01:50:49PM -0400, Robert McGwier wrote: > Greg, et. al.: > > Sorry to be coming in the door late and chiming in with my two cents but .... > > So long as you are willing to go to the trouble of using FPGA, you can > do the FIR work with O(N ln N) operations rather than O(N^2) operations > and get really long filters. This is done by doing linear convolutions > using FFT's and doing the overlap save or overlap add method to turn > the circular convolution into linear convolution with a little overhead > (overhead in length of filter and memory requirements). You > can get LONG "brick wall" FIR filters doing it this way. Has this > been considered? Given that you are willing to put in the huge > delay line anyway, this can't be that much more expensive. > > Thanks for the review. It is very interesting. > > Bob > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org -- janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, | there you long to return. -- da Vinci PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Aug 30 07:34:10 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id HAA05988 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:34:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:32:28 -0500 From: "Tom Mcdermott" Organization: Alcatel USA, Inc. X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: FHSS design page References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <37CA79DC.3A8E6A94@usa.alcatel.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The baseband data filters are FIR filters inplemented in an FPGA (along with all the other needed logic). The filters have been designed, and a 48-tap symmetric filter is used in each channel. Coefficients have been designed, and trimmed to 10-bits width with only a very slight effect on the filter performance. This filter has been automatically synthesized by the FPGA design package in bit-serial logic, and instantiated as a schematic macro. The synthesis takes about 1 minute on a 266 Mhz. Pentium. Additional logic to differentially-code the data, and to covert it to 2's complement signed form are done (and is really very simple). More work is involved in designing the timing chains and finishing up the logic for 2x interpolation. The transmit DAC also does 2x interpolation, and the net result of 4x interpolation is that the analog reconstruction filters are significantly simplified. Jake Janovetz wrote: > Bob, > > If I read the update correctly, they are using FIR filters in > the modulator which doesn't need high-order filtering. In fact, > the filters are used with incoming impulses to generated the > modulated signal -- not really filtering anything in the way we > usually think of it. My point is that FIR filters are preferred > to FFTs in modulation tasks. > Also, I don't know which FPGA they chose, but a 1024-point FFT > (big for the task) requires several hundred CLBs. An alternative > to FIR modulation is using wavetables. Personally, I'd say > waveform synthesis is a better solution to the FHSS problem, but > I don't know exactly what their constraints are. > > Cheers, > Jake > > On Sat, Aug 28, 1999 at 01:50:49PM -0400, Robert McGwier wrote: > > Greg, et. al.: > > > > Sorry to be coming in the door late and chiming in with my two cents but .... > > > > So long as you are willing to go to the trouble of using FPGA, you can > > do the FIR work with O(N ln N) operations rather than O(N^2) operations > > and get really long filters. This is done by doing linear convolutions > > using FFT's and doing the overlap save or overlap add method to turn > > the circular convolution into linear convolution with a little overhead > > (overhead in length of filter and memory requirements). You > > can get LONG "brick wall" FIR filters doing it this way. Has this > > been considered? Given that you are willing to put in the huge > > delay line anyway, this can't be that much more expensive. > > > > Thanks for the review. It is very interesting. > > > > Bob > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > -- > janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with > University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, > | there you long to return. -- da Vinci > PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: N5EG@TAPR.ORG > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org -- Tom McDermott Tom.Mcdermott@usa.alcatel.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Aug 30 08:19:07 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id IAA07239 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:19:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: rwmcgwier@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:07:29 -0400 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Robert McGwier Subject: [ss] Re: FHSS design page In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.19990830090559.0092d9f0@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >From the page: loop on it to operate. This, coupled along with it's production cancellation has forced us into a difficult redesign. Several years ago this type of redesign would have been virtually impossible for us to cope with, but thanks to improving FPGA technology, we are going to implement the baseband FIR filters for the modulator in a Xilinx FPGA (Field programmable Gate Array) component. One of the great difficulties with high-speed digital data radios is implementing the modulation filters. We need a large number of taps with a significant amount of precision of the coefficient values. The processing requirements (high data rate, lots of taps) places the computational load beyond what almost any general-purpose software-programmable DSP chips is able to accomplish. Fortunately, Xilinx has released a 'core' generator for their FPGA parts which implement in bit-serial arithmetic symmetric and non-symmetric FIR (Finite Impulse Response) digital filters. Our computation shows that they will be just fast enough to implement our modem filters. These filters will provide square-root of raised-cosine shaping to the transmit baseband I- and Q- channels. This logic will be added to new logic we have to generate for differentially-coding and word-formatting the QPSK symbols. Previously, we had also implemented the symbol-timing These square root raised cosine filters have to be many bauds long in order to work properly so that when you convolve one in the receiver (a requirement!) with one applied in the transmitter (a requirement) this is going to take a ton of ticks. At 12:22 PM 08/29/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Bob, > > If I read the update correctly, they are using FIR filters in >the modulator which doesn't need high-order filtering. In fact, >the filters are used with incoming impulses to generated the >modulated signal -- not really filtering anything in the way we >usually think of it. My point is that FIR filters are preferred >to FFTs in modulation tasks. > Also, I don't know which FPGA they chose, but a 1024-point FFT >(big for the task) requires several hundred CLBs. An alternative >to FIR modulation is using wavetables. Personally, I'd say >waveform synthesis is a better solution to the FHSS problem, but >I don't know exactly what their constraints are. > > Cheers, > Jake > > >On Sat, Aug 28, 1999 at 01:50:49PM -0400, Robert McGwier wrote: >> Greg, et. al.: >> >> Sorry to be coming in the door late and chiming in with my two cents but .... >> >> So long as you are willing to go to the trouble of using FPGA, you can >> do the FIR work with O(N ln N) operations rather than O(N^2) operations >> and get really long filters. This is done by doing linear convolutions >> using FFT's and doing the overlap save or overlap add method to turn >> the circular convolution into linear convolution with a little overhead >> (overhead in length of filter and memory requirements). You >> can get LONG "brick wall" FIR filters doing it this way. Has this >> been considered? Given that you are willing to put in the huge >> delay line anyway, this can't be that much more expensive. >> >> Thanks for the review. It is very interesting. >> >> Bob >> >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > >-- > janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with > University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, > | there you long to return. -- da Vinci > PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: RWMCGWIER@HOME.COM >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Aug 30 09:08:02 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id JAA08675 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:08:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:04:25 -0500 From: Jake Janovetz To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: FHSS design page References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: ; from Tom Mcdermott on Mon, Aug 30, 1999 at 07:32:28AM -0500 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <19990830090425.A24311@tempest.ece.uiuc.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Tom, et al., It's probably too late to change this aspect of the design and I'm not recommending you do. I'm merely pointing out another alternative: Another way to construct repetitious digital transmission waveforms is using a wavetable. The FPGA can sequence addresses to the wavetable (SRAM). The output of the SRAM is sent directly into a DAC. The advantage of this method is flexibility and speed. Speed is clearly not a concern since the FPGA can handle the desired filter. Flexibility may be an issue for hams that want to play around with this thingy. Since the transmit pulse lasts for several bit periods, standard wavetable techniques aren't enough. They need to be supplemented a bit. Basically, you synthesize (a priori) all possible combinations of bit periods. (assuming 48-taps over 8 sample, that makes 6 symbol periods and 2^6 = 64 possible combinations. Therefore, the wavetable must be 64*8*2=1024 words big. Not a problem.) The FPGA needs to remember past symbols and incorporate those into the wavetable addressing. If you want to know more about what this can do, go to: http://tempest.ece.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/ then click on ``doc'' then ``thesis'' then download ``thesis.ps'' The above page is the CVS repository for my thesis. It incorporates this sort of flexible wavetable synthesis method. Basically, you get more speed and more flexibility at the cost of more power consumption (assuming the SRAM consumes more than the FPGA pieces used to assemble the FIR). All-in-all, I'm glad to hear you've moved to an FPGA design. They're pretty cool. Cheers, Jake On Mon, Aug 30, 1999 at 07:32:28AM -0500, Tom Mcdermott wrote: > The baseband data filters are FIR filters inplemented in an FPGA > (along with all the other needed logic). The filters have been designed, > and a 48-tap symmetric filter is used in each channel. Coefficients have > been designed, and trimmed to 10-bits width with only a very slight > effect on the filter performance. > > This filter has been automatically synthesized by the FPGA design package > in bit-serial logic, and instantiated as a schematic macro. The synthesis takes > about 1 minute on a 266 Mhz. Pentium. > > Additional logic to differentially-code the data, and to covert it > to 2's complement signed form are done (and is really very simple). > > More work is involved in designing the timing chains and finishing up > the logic for 2x interpolation. The transmit DAC also does 2x interpolation, > and the net result of 4x interpolation is that the analog reconstruction filters > are significantly simplified. > > > > Jake Janovetz wrote: > > > Bob, > > > > If I read the update correctly, they are using FIR filters in > > the modulator which doesn't need high-order filtering. In fact, > > the filters are used with incoming impulses to generated the > > modulated signal -- not really filtering anything in the way we > > usually think of it. My point is that FIR filters are preferred > > to FFTs in modulation tasks. > > Also, I don't know which FPGA they chose, but a 1024-point FFT > > (big for the task) requires several hundred CLBs. An alternative > > to FIR modulation is using wavetables. Personally, I'd say > > waveform synthesis is a better solution to the FHSS problem, but > > I don't know exactly what their constraints are. > > > > Cheers, > > Jake > > > > On Sat, Aug 28, 1999 at 01:50:49PM -0400, Robert McGwier wrote: > > > Greg, et. al.: > > > > > > Sorry to be coming in the door late and chiming in with my two cents but .... > > > > > > So long as you are willing to go to the trouble of using FPGA, you can > > > do the FIR work with O(N ln N) operations rather than O(N^2) operations > > > and get really long filters. This is done by doing linear convolutions > > > using FFT's and doing the overlap save or overlap add method to turn > > > the circular convolution into linear convolution with a little overhead > > > (overhead in length of filter and memory requirements). You > > > can get LONG "brick wall" FIR filters doing it this way. Has this > > > been considered? Given that you are willing to put in the huge > > > delay line anyway, this can't be that much more expensive. > > > > > > Thanks for the review. It is very interesting. > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > -- > > janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with > > University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, > > | there you long to return. -- da Vinci > > PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: N5EG@TAPR.ORG > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > -- > > Tom McDermott > Tom.Mcdermott@usa.alcatel.com > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org -- janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, | there you long to return. -- da Vinci PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Aug 30 09:21:20 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id JAA09076 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:21:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:18:50 -0500 From: "Tom Mcdermott" Organization: Alcatel USA, Inc. X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: FHSS design page References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <37CA92CA.F63A9048@usa.alcatel.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Jake: Thanks for the nice coments. The wavetable sounds like an interesting approach. Although our approach of using an FIR filter may not be the minimum possible logic, it has the advantage that the schematic of the filter (the EDIF netlist actually) is directly synthesized from the coefficients in about 1 minute. It would probably take me a lot longer to manually capture a schematic and debug it either using a wavetable solution, or a FFT/convolution solution. Guess that's what happens with design automation tools - they may make some solutions more attractive than others. Jake Janovetz wrote: > Tom, et al., > > It's probably too late to change this aspect of the design and > I'm not recommending you do. I'm merely pointing out another > alternative: > > Another way to construct repetitious digital transmission waveforms > is using a wavetable. The FPGA can sequence addresses to the > wavetable (SRAM). The output of the SRAM is sent directly into a > DAC. The advantage of this method is flexibility and speed. > Speed is clearly not a concern since the FPGA can handle the > desired filter. Flexibility may be an issue for hams that want > to play around with this thingy. > > Since the transmit pulse lasts for several bit periods, standard > wavetable techniques aren't enough. They need to be supplemented a > bit. Basically, you synthesize (a priori) all possible combinations > of bit periods. (assuming 48-taps over 8 sample, that makes > 6 symbol periods and 2^6 = 64 possible combinations. Therefore, > the wavetable must be 64*8*2=1024 words big. Not a problem.) > The FPGA needs to remember past symbols and incorporate those > into the wavetable addressing. > > If you want to know more about what this can do, go to: > > http://tempest.ece.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/ > then click on ``doc'' then ``thesis'' then download ``thesis.ps'' > > The above page is the CVS repository for my thesis. It > incorporates this sort of flexible wavetable synthesis method. > Basically, you get more speed and more flexibility at the cost > of more power consumption (assuming the SRAM consumes more than > the FPGA pieces used to assemble the FIR). > > All-in-all, I'm glad to hear you've moved to an FPGA design. > They're pretty cool. > > Cheers, > Jake > > On Mon, Aug 30, 1999 at 07:32:28AM -0500, Tom Mcdermott wrote: > > The baseband data filters are FIR filters inplemented in an FPGA > > (along with all the other needed logic). The filters have been designed, > > and a 48-tap symmetric filter is used in each channel. Coefficients have > > been designed, and trimmed to 10-bits width with only a very slight > > effect on the filter performance. > > > > This filter has been automatically synthesized by the FPGA design package > > in bit-serial logic, and instantiated as a schematic macro. The synthesis takes > > about 1 minute on a 266 Mhz. Pentium. > > > > Additional logic to differentially-code the data, and to covert it > > to 2's complement signed form are done (and is really very simple). > > > > More work is involved in designing the timing chains and finishing up > > the logic for 2x interpolation. The transmit DAC also does 2x interpolation, > > and the net result of 4x interpolation is that the analog reconstruction filters > > are significantly simplified. > > > > > > > > Jake Janovetz wrote: > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > If I read the update correctly, they are using FIR filters in > > > the modulator which doesn't need high-order filtering. In fact, > > > the filters are used with incoming impulses to generated the > > > modulated signal -- not really filtering anything in the way we > > > usually think of it. My point is that FIR filters are preferred > > > to FFTs in modulation tasks. > > > Also, I don't know which FPGA they chose, but a 1024-point FFT > > > (big for the task) requires several hundred CLBs. An alternative > > > to FIR modulation is using wavetables. Personally, I'd say > > > waveform synthesis is a better solution to the FHSS problem, but > > > I don't know exactly what their constraints are. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Jake > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 28, 1999 at 01:50:49PM -0400, Robert McGwier wrote: > > > > Greg, et. al.: > > > > > > > > Sorry to be coming in the door late and chiming in with my two cents but .... > > > > > > > > So long as you are willing to go to the trouble of using FPGA, you can > > > > do the FIR work with O(N ln N) operations rather than O(N^2) operations > > > > and get really long filters. This is done by doing linear convolutions > > > > using FFT's and doing the overlap save or overlap add method to turn > > > > the circular convolution into linear convolution with a little overhead > > > > (overhead in length of filter and memory requirements). You > > > > can get LONG "brick wall" FIR filters doing it this way. Has this > > > > been considered? Given that you are willing to put in the huge > > > > delay line anyway, this can't be that much more expensive. > > > > > > > > Thanks for the review. It is very interesting. > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > > > -- > > > janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with > > > University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, > > > | there you long to return. -- da Vinci > > > PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: N5EG@TAPR.ORG > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > -- > > > > Tom McDermott > > Tom.Mcdermott@usa.alcatel.com > > > > > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > -- > janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with > University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, > | there you long to return. -- da Vinci > PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: N5EG@TAPR.ORG > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org -- Tom McDermott Tom.Mcdermott@usa.alcatel.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Aug 31 05:55:18 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.10) with SMTP id FAA28112 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:55:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: X-Sender: rwmcgwier@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:48:27 -0400 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Robert McGwier Subject: [ss] Re: FHSS design page In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.19990831064620.0092ad40@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Tom and Jake: You both might recall that this is exactly the approach taken by G3RUH in his 9600 bps FSK modem. The impulse response is taken into account and then a state machine derives the actual sample to be emitted. The FPGA would of course be much more versatile. Bob At 09:18 AM 08/30/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Jake: > > Thanks for the nice coments. The wavetable sounds like >an interesting approach. Although our approach of using an FIR >filter may not be the minimum possible logic, it has the advantage >that the schematic of the filter (the EDIF netlist actually) is >directly synthesized from the coefficients in about 1 minute. It >would probably take me a lot longer to manually capture >a schematic and debug it either using a wavetable solution, >or a FFT/convolution solution. > > Guess that's what happens with design automation tools - they >may make some solutions more attractive than others. > > >Jake Janovetz wrote: > >> Tom, et al., >> >> It's probably too late to change this aspect of the design and >> I'm not recommending you do. I'm merely pointing out another >> alternative: >> --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org