From cobalto@www.cd Fri Jan 01 23:44:38 1999 Received: from TheHost.net (root@[206.67.134.200]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09630 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:44:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from unknown Message-Id: <199901011411.JAA14966@TheHost.net> From: "Gabriela Bullock" To: -@TheHost.net Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:33:49 -0300 X-Distribution: Mass MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: La conversacion de hoy Reply-to: cobalto@www.cd X-Confirm-Reading-To: cobalto@www.cd X-pmrqc: 1 Return-receipt-to: cobalto@www.cd Priority: urgent Julian: El web de ese chat que hoy hablamos es: http://WWW.ARGENTINA.COM Saludos y Muy Feliz A#o Nuevo! Gaby From jeff@aerodata.net Fri Jan 15 15:09:28 1999 Received: from aerodata.net (aerodata.mich.com [198.108.18.17]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14198; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:09:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from aerodata.net (darla.aerodata.net [198.108.18.21]) by aerodata.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13112; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:34:56 -0500 Message-ID: <369FAF1F.DE538CC0@aerodata.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:12:00 -0500 From: Jeff King Organization: Aero Data Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Stroh N8GNJ , ss@tapr.org Subject: Zoom Air, was Re: [SS-STA:438] Re: Activity Report References: <3.0.5.32.19990115130241.039242e0@mail.mich.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Steve Stroh N8GNJ " wrote: > > One of the best pieces of news is that Zoom Telephonics has announced a > cheap ISA card that's fully compliant with the 802.11 Wireless LAN > specification - lowest price I've seen yet. Just checked it out. Based on the Harris Prism chip set, no word on the MAC layer, assume its the AMD chip set or ? I put all call into some marketing guys voice mail to see if they will be supporting linux. Any idea of the street price? I see $299 on the web site. Symphony's is $140 street with same power out (100mw). I don't believe it is fully 802.11 compatible though.. -Jeff wb8wka From Mike@Dent.Org Sat Jan 16 13:29:58 1999 Received: from mail-atm.lancs.ac.uk (mail.lancs.ac.uk [148.88.16.100]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA26593 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:29:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail-atm.lancs.ac.uk (actually host localhost) by mail-atm.lancs.ac.uk with Local SMTP (PP); Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:29:48 +0000 Received: from lurpac.lancs.ac.uk (lurpac.lancs.ac.uk [148.88.12.208]) by mail-atm.lancs.ac.uk with SpooMTA 1.24; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:29:48 +0000 Received: from mary.g6phf.ampr.org by lurpac.lancs.ac.uk; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:29:43 GMT Received: from mary.g6phf.ampr.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mary.g6phf.ampr.org (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA29336 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:29:44 GMT Message-Id: <199901161929.TAA29336@mary.g6phf.ampr.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 From: Mike@Dent.Org Reply-to: Mike@Dent.Org To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:173] Zoom Air, was Re: [SS-STA:438] Re: Activity Report In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:15:47 CST." <369FAF1F.DE538CC0@aerodata.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:29:44 +0000 Sender: mike@mary.g6phf.ampr.org > "Steve Stroh N8GNJ " wrote: > > Any idea of the street price? I see $299 on the web site. Symphony's is $140 > street > with same power out (100mw). I don't believe it is fully 802.11 compatible > though.. Is any body using the symphony/proxim cards in a Linux system across town or similar? Just wondered how they perform etc? Thanks Mike > > -Jeff wb8wka > > -- "I remember when NOS was NET and all you got was "Welcome to TTY-link.." " Mike Dent. G6PHF. Morecambe, Lancs. UK. | Mike@Dent.Org AMPRnet=g6phf@gb7mbb.ampr.org | http://www.lancs.ac.uk/staff/dentm/ PGP Fingerprint=44 F5 22 C4 CB A2 3F 9F 73 9C 02 9F 0B 16 55 72 From bounce-message-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 01:10:20 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA01338 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:10:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Lyris-Type: get-doc From: Lyris Reply-To: Lyris To: lyris.ss@tapr.org Subject: TAPR Spread Spectrum SIG Welcome Message Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:10:23 -0600 ******************************************************************** * PLEASE SAVE THIS WELCOME MESSAGE! * ******************************************************************** ________________________________________ ________/ ____/ _/_____/ _/_____/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/____/_/ _/_____/ _/_____/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _______________________________________ Welcome to the TAPR Spread Spectrum SIG! This mailing list is for the discussion of topics related to the application of spread spectrum communications technology to amateur packet radio networking. The emphasis of this SIG is on the technology of spread spectrum rather than regulatory or political issues. Suitable topics include: - New SS chipsets and modem products, and their applicability to the amateur service - Performance reports on existing products (e.g., Part 15 WLAN devices) - Relative merits of direct sequence, frequency hopping and hybrid approaches in amateur SS applications - Use of CDMA and other multiple access techniques to build packet radio LANs/MANs - Dealing with shared allocations and interference in the UHF and higher amateur bands - Proposals for development projects in amateur packet SS - Sources of SS information on the Internet and elsewhere: books, articles, web pages, FAQ files, etc The TAPR SS SIG is unmoderated. We would like to keep it that way, to encourage the open exchange of ideas and minimize the turnaround time. This will only be possible if the participants exercise some restraint. Discussions of technical issues can get heated at times, but they are not useful unless they also shed some light on the topic. Personal attacks will not be tolerated, and may result in the offender(s) being summarily removed from the list. Maintainer of the SIG is Barry McLarnon, VE3JF. Please direct comments and suggestions to bm@hydra.carleton.ca or ve3jf@tapr.org. ----- To post messages to the ss list, send email to: ss@lists.tapr.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, surf to: http://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=ss or send email to: lyris@lists.tapr.org with the following line in the body of the message: unsub ss The host of this list is: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio (TAPR) tapr@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org 8987-309 E Tanque Verde Rd. #337, Tucson, AZ 85749-9399, phone 940-383-0000, fax 940-566-2544 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just so that you have all the commands neatly contained in one place, here is just about everything you will need to know. Note that this list is running on a Lyris server. Please be aware that the commands might be different from those that you are used to using on other list servers. (For more information on Lyris, see .) 1. First of all, almost everything that you might need to do on the server is most easily and effectively performed via Lyris's Web interface at . 2. In case you do not have Web access, here are some key commands; in all cases, the default server address is: . Other addresses are shown where appropriate. Note that commands may be placed in either the subject line or in the body of the message: SUBSCRIBING: subscribe ss your_name join ss your_name alternate address: join-ss@lists.tapr.org UNSUBSCRIBING: unsubscribe ss leave ss alternate address: leave-ss@lists.tapr.org SETTING MEMBERSHIP TO DIGEST MODE: set ss digest SETTING MEMBERSHIP TO INDEX MODE: set ss index SETTING MEMBERSHIP TO DISCUSSION MODE: set ss mail TEMPORARILY SUSPENDING MAIL FROM THE LIST: set ss nomail RESUMING MAIL FROM THE LIST: (command depends on your preferred mode) set ss mail set ss digest set ss index ACKNOWLEDGMENT: set ss ack (sends you a confirmation message when your posts are sent) set ss noack (no confirmation message when posts are distributed) RECEIVING COPIES OF YOUR OWN POSTS: set ss repro (receive copies of your own posts) set ss norepro (do not receive copies of your own posts) SETTING YOUR PASSWORD: set ss pw=mypassword (where "mypassword" is the password you wish to set) DETERMINING YOUR MEMBERSHIP SETTINGS: query ss RETRIEVING THE CURRENT VERSION OF THIS DOCUMENT: get ss hello MORE INFORMATION ON LYRIS'S COMMANDS: help POSTING TO THE LIST: You must be a subscriber to post messages. Sending mail to this address will distribute it to all the members of the mailing list: ss@lists.tapr.org 3. CHANGING YOUR SETTINGS/ADDRESS VIA THE WEB INTERFACE: To do this, go to and click the link in the "Change Your Settings" section. You'll need to enter your e-mail address and password (if you chose one) to continue. (If you've forgotten your password, you can type in your e-mail address in the field at the bottom of the page and click "Get password" to request Lyris to e-mail your password to you.) At the following page, you can read messages, post a message, adjust your settings, or unsubscribe. From the settings page, you can change your status (MAIL, DIGEST, INDEX, or NOMAIL), choose whether or not to see your own messages, and choose whether or not you want to receive a separate acknowledgement via e-mail when one of your messages is posted to the list, You can also change your e-mail address if you need to. When you change your settings, make sure you click the "Save" button at the bottom of the page. 4. ARCHIVES: The ss SIG archives are available on the Web, at the following URL: 5. BOUNCED MAIL: One of the key features of Lyris is its ability to handle mail bounces transparently to the list owner; as such, bounced mail will be handled primarily by the Lyris list server. 6. POSTS/REPLIES FROM DIGEST USERS: You *must* change the Subject: line when replying to a digest; all posts with "ss DIGEST" in the Subject: line will be rejected by the server (you will receive a "rejection letter" when this happens). From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 05:17:04 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA07605 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:17:04 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:05:39 -0600 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: [ss] TAPR Server Upgrade List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hello TAPR Archiver, you might be interested to know that TAPR has upgraded our list processor to a new lyris based system. This message is going to you on the ss list. You are listed as: lyris.ss@tapr.org on the list This new package has a lot of features which might cause a few glitches as we make the transition. Read the following to find out more. ACCESSING THE SYSTEM VIA THE WEB -------------------------------- When the new TAPR web pages go on-line in the next few weeks, they will contain the new interface to the lists as well as a new and improved search engine for the various mail archives. To directly access the TAPR.ORG Lyris server for now, use http://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/lyris.pl GETTING ON-LINE HELP -------------------- visit: http://www.tapr.org/lyris/help/index.html for a full on-line manual MEMBERS ONLY POST ----------------- With the recent increase in spamming some of the TAPR lists implement the rule "only members of the list can post to said list". If the incoming e-mail address doesn't match your e-mail subscription stored in the list, lists.tapr.org will reject your message. If you get a rejected message from the list server, then you will need to change your address in the list. We have already seen a few rejected posts in the log. We apologize for those caught in the change over. Do the following and repost your message. To change your member e-mail address on this list, do the following: 1. go to http://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=ss 2. For "Did you forget your password?" enter lyris.ss@tapr.org 3. lists.tapr.org will e-mail you your password for the list. After you get your password use "If you are member..." 4. enter lyris.ss@tapr.org for email address 5. enter YOUR_PASSWORD (the one you just got e-mailed) 6. click on the enter button At this point you can edit any of your information for this list. You can also send and receive messages from this screen if you are away from e-mail at the time. We plan on keeping e-mail for 30 days on the Lyris interface, after which time messages can be found in the html searchable archives. To get more information on your options see: http://www.tapr.org/lyris/help/ChangeMembershipSettings.html LOTS OF INFORMATION IN EACH MESSAGE ----------------------------------- No member of a list should now have an excuse for not knowing how to unsubscribe from the list. Each message contains information on how to subscribe as well as unsubscribe. To unsubscribe, just send to the unique address shown in your message. HOLD ON BOUNCED E-MAIL ---------------------- When people's email addresses go bad (for instance, they change to another Internet Service Provider) each email message sent to their old address bounces back to lists.tapr.org. In the past, this was a huge management issue for myself and a few other on the tapr list server. Lyris will now analyze the bounces and determine who is causing them. If a member's email address appears to be invalid for 5 days in a row, Lyris automatically disables that participant's membership on the system, so that lists.tapr.org no longer sends them mail. When a user is placed on hold, we will send the user an email message indicating that this has occurred, as well as a copy of the most recent error message received. This notification message, if the user receives it, can be very helpful to the user in determining why their email was being rejected by their mail system. In such a case, send the "unhold" command to the List Server address, and Lyris will return any "held" subscriptions back to "normal." The format of the unhold command is: email to: lyris@lists.tapr.org subject: unhold 500K Message Limit on most open lists ------------------------------------- We have implemented a 500K message size limit on the open lists. This should catch most of the huge posts that get made. If this limit needs to be changed, the list manager can change the setting for that list. MESSAGE FILTER -------------- Lyris looks for a lot of things in the message that might indicate something not meant to be sent to the list. Like the word TEST or UNSUBSCRIBE in the Subject line. If you send a message to the list server that it thinks is a 'suspect' message and it isn't, just change the word or line and please resubmit. While this might cause a problem now and then for the average user, it saves a lot of posting of messages that shouldn't be making it to the list. CONCLUSION ---------- Moving to a new list package has been on our upgrade to do list for some time. Thanks to member support, TAPR has been able to make this upgrade a reality. We feel that this new package will greatly help expand our capabilities while also reducing the amount of work that it took to keep the previous list package running correctly. I am in the midst of developing a new web site along with several other new items that should make using and getting information from the TAPR.ORG site much easier. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to drop me an e-mail message. To those members of TAPR on this list, please give yourself a big pat on the back of supporting TAPR! For those of you that haven't joined TAPR yet, consider this a friendly reminder that you should think about joining in order to support future maintenance of things we do on the Internet and the various technical projects that are always ongoing. TAPR is only as strong as its membership. Cheers -- Greg Jones, WD5IVD President, TAPR ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 12:22:39 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA01267 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:22:39 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:11:56 -0800 From: Jon Roland Subject: [ss] Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/HTML; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk A Proposal for a Wireless Internet of Portable hosts (WIPNet) by Jon Roland KC5MYS jon.roland@constitution.org The prospects that the Y2K problem, or other such cascade failure arising from other causes, might bring down power grids and telecommunications systems, suggests that we consider establishing an alternative communications system that could support emergency services in such an event. One of the main ways that emergency communications has been provided in the past is through amateur radio networks. However, the advent of packet radio and other forms of digital communications on amateur bands suggests a better use of the bandwidth, especially since a nationwide or worldwide failure of essential systems would be likely to overwhelm the ability of traditional amateur voice communications to cope with the situation. A number of amateur and commercial researchers have been exploring expansion of the Internet to radio links, using the TCP/IP and AX-25 protocols and making use of both the amateur bands and the newly available spread spectrum bands. These are represented by such efforts as FlexNet and AMPRnet, and such services as Ricochet. See http://www.constitution.org/amprnet/amprnet.htm This is to suggest that we get together to establish a much more ambitious system. The effort is complicated by the need to confine the use of amateur bands to licensed amateurs, which is not a limitation for the use of spread spectrum bands. The following are the design specifications for such a system. - All nodes would be portable computers and transceivers. There would be no wired backbone, although there could be connections to the wired backbone to make use of it, if it is available, such as to span what would otherwise be breaks in the network. - The geographic range of the system would be nationwide or worldwide. Any node would be able to send an email message to any other anywhere on the network, regardless of the number of hops in between. There would also be support for newsgroup, ftp and WWW services, but these might be restricted in the event of an emergency. - The primary bands would be spread spectrum, with perhaps some use of HF bands for longer distances, to span breaks in the network. - The addressing and routing scheme would permit all nodes to move about freely, and perhaps rapidly, without every node having to have a complete database of every node and its location, although such a database might be available on some nodes, making them DNS servers. - There would be a priortization protocol to permit high priority messages to have routing priority over lower ones. There are many advantages to the use of spread spectrum. It supports higher bandwidths, makes more efficient use of a given band, and provides better security. At the moment its use is limited to the 900 MHz and 2.4 GHz bands, and to 1 W, but amplifiers are available for use outside the U.S., and we can expect that use at higher powers would be excusable in the event of a national emergency, as would the use by non-licensed personnel. A protocol would have to be adopted for exchanging sequence codes among cooperating transceivers, but PGP-encrypted messages on a standard contact sequence could be used for that and for authentication of the nodes. It would also be better suited for preventing packets from going astray. It would be possible, in principle, for nodes within range of each other to update one another's link databases, and for those databases to be transmitted to other nodes to update their, on a continuing basis, so that every node would maintain an updated database of every node and which was in range of which other, however, this would involve too heavy an overhead. A different approach would be for each node to transmit its approximate grid location, either set manually or taken from GPS, and messages routed along a node path that would take them in the general direction of the target node until a link was established. The line-of-sight range of both VHF FM and SS is about 20 miles, under good conditions, and using antennas that could be carried by a person. That means that to establish a nationwide network, and to provide sufficient bandwidth for heavy message traffic, there would need to be a fairly dense positioning of nodes not more than 20 miles apart, and preferably closer, across the country. This could be a problem in some of the Western states, especially desert country, where population density is low, but in an emergency node-bearing operators could scatter themselves and position themselves to make sure that coverage was complete. Three or four operators in each of the 3000 counties in the United States might be sufficient. Small notebook or wearable computers with large disk drives are now becoming available, and they should soon become fairly inexpensive. SS 1 W transceivers are also becoming available at a cost of about $200 each. The only other things that would be needed would be power packs, a good antenna, and perhaps extra disk drive capacity, all of which could be carried by an operator in a backpack. The importance of portability must be emphasized. In an emergency, the availability of fuel to operate a vehicle cannot be assumed, although vehicle based mobile systems might be made use of if available. But operators should plan on being able to operate on foot, perhaps using solar cells to recharge their batteries. The operator will also have to carry water, food, medical, and other survival supplies on him, so the communications equipment needs to be as small, light, and easy to use while on the move as possible. The military has such systems, but, typically, they are too expensive for civilian use. Indeed, they are too expensive for widespread use by the military, which is why we cannot depend on military or national guard personnel to provide such services in an emergency. This needs to be a civilian, autonomous system that is not under central authority or control, like the Internet itself, and that therefore cannot easily be interdicted or interfered with by anyone. We need to vigorously pursue the development, testing, and deployment of such a system, with the goal of full deployment not later than October, 1999. Comments for ways to do this are welcome. =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/25/99 Time: 10:11:56 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org =================================================================== --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 12:28:27 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA01408 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:28:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Bret Berger" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:26:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000401be4890$35b38300$3dd182cc@henry> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I'd like a few of those $200 SS units. Where do I order them from? -bret --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 12:55:58 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA02118 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:55:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:31:33 -0800 From: Jon Roland Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ------------------------ From: Bret Berger > I'd like a few of those $200 SS units. Where do I order them from? Go to our WIPnet page at http://www.constitution.org/wipnet/wipnet.htm and follow the links. ---------------End of Original Message----------------- =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/25/99 Time: 10:31:33 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org =================================================================== --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 13:39:01 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA07423 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:39:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Bret Berger" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:37:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000d01be489a$28f411c0$3dd182cc@henry> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for the quick reply Jon. I surfed on over the the page below, but could find no mention of $200 SS radios. Did I miss something? -bret -----Original Message----- From: Jon Roland To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:55 AM Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts > > >------------------------ > From: Bret Berger > >> I'd like a few of those $200 SS units. Where do I order them from? > >Go to our WIPnet page at http://www.constitution.org/wipnet/wipnet.htm and >follow the links. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 13:54:44 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA08148 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:54:43 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: brett@127.0.0.1 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:50:38 -0700 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Brett Glass Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.19990125124349.04602420@127.0.0.1> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The Harris PCMCIA units run about $200 in OEM quantities. Lucent is a bit higher. No one, to my knowledge, can afford to sell much under that. --Brett At 12:37 PM 1/25/99 -0700, Bret Berger wrote: >Thanks for the quick reply Jon. I surfed on over the the page below, but >could find no mention of $200 SS radios. Did I miss something? > >-bret > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jon Roland >To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group >Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:55 AM >Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts > > >> >> >>------------------------ >> From: Bret Berger >> >>> I'd like a few of those $200 SS units. Where do I order them from? >> >>Go to our WIPnet page at http://www.constitution.org/wipnet/wipnet.htm and >>follow the links. > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: BRETT@LARIAT.ORG >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 14:11:10 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA09499 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:11:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:08:02 -0800 From: Jon Roland Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ------------------------ From: Bret Berger > Thanks for the quick reply Jon. I surfed on over the the page below, but > could find no mention of $200 SS radios. Did I miss something? Keep clickin'. You have to follow the links to the Communications and Surveillance page, where you will find some vendors, and on the vendor pages you may find prices. I would never put prices on my own pages. --Jon ---------------End of Original Message----------------- =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/25/99 Time: 12:08:02 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org =================================================================== --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 14:50:51 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA11447 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:50:51 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Bret Berger" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:49:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001d01be48a4$28e9cd00$3dd182cc@henry> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk My clicking finger is about wore off. I was hoping you would just tell me from which vendors I could purchase the $200 SS radios you mentioned in your original post. disappointed in Utah, -bret -----Original Message----- From: Jon Roland To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Date: Monday, January 25, 1999 1:10 PM Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts > > >------------------------ > From: Bret Berger > >> Thanks for the quick reply Jon. I surfed on over the the page below, but >> could find no mention of $200 SS radios. Did I miss something? > >Keep clickin'. You have to follow the links to the Communications and >Surveillance page, where you will find some vendors, and on the vendor pages >you may find prices. I would never put prices on my own pages. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 15:13:04 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA12524 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:13:04 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:50:36 -0700 (MST) From: Bob Lorenzini To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Ok where do I find the 1w xcvrs for $200 as described in the article? Bob --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 15:22:05 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA12969 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:22:04 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:20:02 -0800 From: Jon Roland Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ------------------------ From: Bob Lorenzini > Ok where do I find the 1w xcvrs for $200 as described in the article? Vendors are on http://www.constitution.org/commsurv.htm Visit their sites. ---------------End of Original Message----------------- =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/25/99 Time: 13:20:02 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org =================================================================== --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 15:50:02 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA13914 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:50:01 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: davilla@206.6.156.11 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:48:02 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Scott D. Davilla" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >------------------------ > From: Bob Lorenzini > >> Ok where do I find the 1w xcvrs for $200 as described in the article? > >Vendors are on http://www.constitution.org/commsurv.htm Visit their sites. > This sucks, a proposal that references $200 units then when someone asks were they can buy them, they are told, follow this URL and go check out the various different vendor that might or might not publish prices. You got a reference or not. If not then the $200 price point is vapor. If you don't know the URL or can give a reference then posting a general reference to where one might yet the info is a waste of time for all involved. Scott --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 17:39:23 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA18819 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:39:22 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:57:21 -0800 From: Jon Roland Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ------------------------ From: "Scott D. Davilla" > If you don't know the URL or can give a reference then posting a > general reference to where one might yet the info is a waste of time for > all involved. If you want someone else to do all the research for you and guarantee a vendor's price, that is not what we are about. We are a nonprofit organization with an obligation not to show favoritism to for-profit vendors, each of which is continually updating its product offerings and prices. What we offer is a collection of links that may help you in your search. ---------------End of Original Message----------------- =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/25/99 Time: 14:57:21 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org =================================================================== --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 18:08:21 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA20128 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:08:21 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: hansen@oak.ait.fredonia.edu Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:20:41 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: John Hansen Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.19990125181943.00d6f730@oak.ait.fredonia.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 01:20 PM 1/25/99 -0800, you wrote: > > >------------------------ > From: Bob Lorenzini > >> Ok where do I find the 1w xcvrs for $200 as described in the article? > >Vendors are on http://www.constitution.org/commsurv.htm Visit their sites. > The only thing I see there that's even vaguely close is the Freewave stuff. Has that fallen to $200? Seems unlikely to me, but if so, it would be real interesting. John W2FS --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 18:18:31 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA20511 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:18:31 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: davilla@206.6.156.11 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:15:13 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Scott D. Davilla" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >> If you don't know the URL or can give a reference then posting a >> general reference to where one might yet the info is a waste of time for >> all involved. > >If you want someone else to do all the research for you and guarantee a >vendor's price, that is not what we are about. We are a nonprofit >organization >with an obligation not to show favoritism to for-profit vendors, each of >which >is continually updating its product offerings and prices. What we offer is a >collection of links that may help you in your search. Ahh, I understand now. You propose a WIPNet in case of Y2k crashing the power grids and telecommunications systems. One reason is that SS 1 W transceivers are inexpensive ($200) now right. Well there's inexpensive and there's inexpensive. $200 at quantity 10k is inexpensive if you want 10k units. At the quantity one price it's more like $500 to $700. Most vendors I have checked do offer down to $200 but the quantity is way up there. Now if most people that read this list are like me, I'm looking for an inexpensive quantity one price. Your post suggests that the time is now, so I ask where. You tell me find it myself, but you will tell you where to look. Fine, been there, done that, did not find anything I did not know about already. Thanks for your help. The links were interesting to see at least. Scott ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott D. Davilla Phone: 919 489-1757 (tel) 4pi Analysis, Inc. Fax: 919 489-1487 (fax) 3500 Westgate Drive, Suite 403 email: davilla@4pi.com Durham, North Carolina 27707-2534 web: http://www.4pi.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 18:38:43 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA01911 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:38:43 -0600 (CST) From: "Jason Wagner" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:45:14 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000801be48c5$22e14b60$c45b8796@jason.uasv.arizona.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > Well there's inexpensive and there's inexpensive. $200 at quantity > 10k is inexpensive if you want 10k units. At the quantity one price it's > more like $500 to $700. Most vendors I have checked do offer down to $200 > but the quantity is way up there. I am interested in an SS transceiver for $200. Perhaps others on this list are, too? Maybe we could get 10-15 people together to hit that bulk OEM quantity price.... Any thoughts? Jason --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 18:58:08 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA02721 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:58:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:50:25 -0800 From: Jon Roland Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ------------------------ From: "Scott D. Davilla" > You propose a WIPNet in case of Y2k crashing > the power grids and telecommunications systems. That is one reason that is likely to draw interest to the proposal, but there are other reasons as well. > One reason is that SS 1 W > transceivers are inexpensive ($200) now right. The components are beginning to arrive. We need to figure out how to put them together and make them work in the way I propose. > Well there's inexpensive and there's inexpensive. $200 at quantity > 10k is inexpensive if you want 10k units. At the quantity one price it's > more like $500 to $700. Most vendors I have checked do offer down to $200 > but the quantity is way up there. But it is an indicator of their costs, and we can get a lower price if we either get together to buy in quantity or win the support of the vendors to provide their products at their cost for civic purposes. Y2K management is a powerful civic purpose. > Fine, been there, done that, did not find anything I did not know > about already. It's not just about reading price lists. It is also about contacting vendors, explaining what we want to do, and negotiating. For defectives we can fix. For discontinued models. For used stuff. For prototypes. For anything we can get. > Thanks for your help. The links were interesting to see at least. You are welcome. Let me know if you find something I can add to the page. --Jon ---------------End of Original Message----------------- =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/25/99 Time: 16:50:25 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org =================================================================== --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 22:04:30 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA12389 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:04:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:04:31 +1100 From: dwayne Organization: Nexus-Limbo X-Accept-Language: en,ja,zh,zh-TW,zh-CN,hr,en-GB,fi,de,el,is,no,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <36AD3EC8.1E55CEA7@pobox.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Jason Wagner wrote: > > Well there's inexpensive and there's inexpensive. $200 at quantity > > 10k is inexpensive if you want 10k units. At the quantity one price it's > > more like $500 to $700. Most vendors I have checked do offer down to $200 > > but the quantity is way up there. > > I am interested in an SS transceiver for $200. Perhaps others on this list > are, too? Maybe we could get 10-15 people together to hit that bulk OEM > quantity price.... > > Any thoughts? Well, I could contribute 5-20 orders, depending on how useful the stuff actually is.... What sort of numbers are needed? Dwayne -- mailto:ddraig@pobox.com http://i.am/dwayne ....return....to....the....source.... --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 22:13:29 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA12820 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:13:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:05:09 -0600 From: Jake Janovetz To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: ; from dwayne on Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 03:04:31PM +1100 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <19990125220509.A7226@tempest.ece.uiuc.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I'm interested, too. If someone is going to plan something, please post the specs of the device on this list. Cheers, Jake On Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 03:04:31PM +1100, dwayne wrote: > Jason Wagner wrote: > > > > Well there's inexpensive and there's inexpensive. $200 at quantity > > > 10k is inexpensive if you want 10k units. At the quantity one price it's > > > more like $500 to $700. Most vendors I have checked do offer down to $200 > > > but the quantity is way up there. > > > > I am interested in an SS transceiver for $200. Perhaps others on this list > > are, too? Maybe we could get 10-15 people together to hit that bulk OEM > > quantity price.... > > > > Any thoughts? > > Well, I could contribute 5-20 orders, depending on how useful the stuff > actually is.... > > What sort of numbers are needed? > > Dwayne > -- > mailto:ddraig@pobox.com http://i.am/dwayne > > ....return....to....the....source.... > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org -- janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, | there you long to return. -- da Vinci PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Jan 25 22:38:57 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA13531 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:38:57 -0600 (CST) Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:45:15 -0600 From: Clint Miller Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Organization: Infospeedway.Net X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <36AD485B.D355D758@infospeedway.net> Precedence: bulk Count me in. I could also contribute several orders. -- Clint Miller - KD5BYY http://www.infospeedway.net/ Infospeedway.Net mailto:cmiller@infospeedway.net 624 W. University #134 voice:940.484.1165/fax:0586 Denton, TX 76201 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Jan 26 07:58:31 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA15742 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:58:31 -0600 (CST) X-Internal-ID: 36897EBC000675C5 Message-ID: From: "Ricardo A. Ghigliazza" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:57:58 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002901be4933$e1bca930$0164a8c0@airnetworkshq> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Count me too, anyone have the specs of the products? Ricardo Ghigliazza -----Mensaje original----- De: Jake Janovetz Para: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Fecha: martes 26 de enero de 1999 1:00 Asunto: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts >I'm interested, too. If someone is going to plan something, please >post the specs of the device on this list. > > Cheers, > Jake > > >On Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 03:04:31PM +1100, dwayne wrote: >> Jason Wagner wrote: >> >> > > Well there's inexpensive and there's inexpensive. $200 at quantity >> > > 10k is inexpensive if you want 10k units. At the quantity one price it's >> > > more like $500 to $700. Most vendors I have checked do offer down to $200 >> > > but the quantity is way up there. >> > >> > I am interested in an SS transceiver for $200. Perhaps others on this list >> > are, too? Maybe we could get 10-15 people together to hit that bulk OEM >> > quantity price.... >> > >> > Any thoughts? >> >> Well, I could contribute 5-20 orders, depending on how useful the stuff >> actually is.... >> >> What sort of numbers are needed? >> >> Dwayne >> -- >> mailto:ddraig@pobox.com http://i.am/dwayne >> >> ....return....to....the....source.... >> >> >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > >-- > janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with > University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, > | there you long to return. -- da Vinci > PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: RICK@RADIOMODEM.COM >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Jan 27 16:34:37 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA21258 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:34:37 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:14:16 -0800 From: Jon Roland Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I found a database of wireless products, including spread spectrum modems, that some of you might not be aware of. It is the Wireless LAN/MAN Modem Product Directory http://hydra.carleton.ca/info/wlan.html Might find some good deals there. We added a link to it on our Communications and Surveillance page, where we are adding others links suggested by some of you, as well as to the WIPnet page. But now how about some discussion about my proposal and not just a feeding frenzy for $200 SS modems? :) --Jon =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/27/99 Time: 14:14:16 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org =================================================================== --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Jan 27 17:07:43 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA22502 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:07:42 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:02:01 -0600 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Does everyone on the list here realize the the mainter of this site is your List moderator ? maybe not. Greg >I found a database of wireless products, including spread spectrum modems, >that some of you might not be aware of. It is the Wireless LAN/MAN Modem >Product Directory http://hydra.carleton.ca/info/wlan.html > >Might find some good deals there. We added a link to it on our Communications >and Surveillance page, where we are adding others links suggested by some of >you, as well as to the WIPnet page. > >But now how about some discussion about my proposal and not just a feeding >frenzy for $200 SS modems? :) > >--Jon > >=================================================================== >Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 >916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/27/99 Time: 14:14:16 >http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org >=================================================================== > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: WD5IVD@TAPR.ORG >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Jan 27 17:15:38 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA22715 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:15:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Bret Berger" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:14:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002201be4a4a$bb908ac0$3dd182cc@henry> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >But now how about some discussion about my proposal and not just a feeding >frenzy for $200 SS modems? :) No discussion on your proposal will be allowed until you cough up a vendor and source for the $200 SS devices. ;-> -bret --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Jan 27 17:24:34 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA23045 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:24:33 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: hansen@oak.ait.fredonia.edu Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:22:20 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: John Hansen Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.19990127182119.01c3eaf0@oak.ait.fredonia.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 02:14 PM 1/27/99 -0800, you wrote: >I found a database of wireless products, including spread spectrum modems, >that some of you might not be aware of. It is the Wireless LAN/MAN Modem >Product Directory http://hydra.carleton.ca/info/wlan.html > >Might find some good deals there. We added a link to it on our Communications >and Surveillance page, where we are adding others links suggested by some of >you, as well as to the WIPnet page. > >But now how about some discussion about my proposal and not just a feeding >frenzy for $200 SS modems? :) > >--Jon That page indicates a price of $1679 for the Freewave stuff that is mentioned on your web page. John, W2FS --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Jan 27 17:30:31 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA23166 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:30:29 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: hansen@oak.ait.fredonia.edu Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:28:08 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: John Hansen Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.19990127182743.00c17690@oak.ait.fredonia.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Scratch that, I should have written $1250. John, W2FS --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Jan 27 17:39:27 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA23487 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:39:27 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:53:57 -0700 (MST) From: Bob Lorenzini To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Jon Roland wrote: > But now how about some discussion about my proposal and not just a feeding > frenzy for $200 SS modems? :) > > --Jon Well color me jaded but I'm turned off by a proposal predicated on doom and gloom the sky is gonna fall in the new millenium, and baited with $200 modems that don't exist. :-( Quite of few of us on this list have suffered dissapointment in the past on a failed group buy that had a lot more going for it than vailed references, but then thats just my opinion. Bob - wd6dod --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Jan 27 17:43:33 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA23582 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:43:33 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: References: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:27:59 -0600 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk That the price I know of John. let us not forget that the best price that TAPR was ever going to get from Freewave was over $300 each, but then they defaulted on the contract and refused to provide radios at that price without a ton of exceptions to the initial contract. We just sent a nasty letter and decided it wasn't worth the lawyer fees to do anything with them. Also, these radios as in a multinode configuration was abysmal. Cheer - greg >At 02:14 PM 1/27/99 -0800, you wrote: >>I found a database of wireless products, including spread spectrum modems, >>that some of you might not be aware of. It is the Wireless LAN/MAN Modem >>Product Directory http://hydra.carleton.ca/info/wlan.html >> >>Might find some good deals there. We added a link to it on our >>Communications >>and Surveillance page, where we are adding others links suggested by some of >>you, as well as to the WIPnet page. >> >>But now how about some discussion about my proposal and not just a feeding >>frenzy for $200 SS modems? :) >> >>--Jon > >That page indicates a price of $1679 for the Freewave stuff that is >mentioned on your web page. > >John, W2FS > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: WD5IVD@TAPR.ORG >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Jan 27 18:04:19 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA24361 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:04:19 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: davilla@206.6.156.11 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:01:03 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Scott D. Davilla" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >But now how about some discussion about my proposal and not just a feeding >frenzy for $200 SS modems? :) North Carolina is about 50,000 square miles in area. Assume %50 coverage and a $200 SS device with bit more than a mile outdoor range. 25,000 units at $200 is 5 million dollars. Multiply by 48 (sorry Hawaii and Alaska) is 240 million dollars. Say I'm sloppy in my estimates and divide this by two. Still 120 million. The odds of anyone funding this vs spending the 120 million on real Y2K fixes is very low. The proposal would also provide a temporary fix, the Y2K problem would still be there. In practical terms, I doubt that the power/teco companies would ignore any Y2K problems, the legal problems on failure would cost them several orders of magnitude more that fixing their problems. I looked over the URL posted and there are some interesting looking devices at around $500 (250mW). Anything around 1W was $1k or more. Looks like the time is not right yet for a 1W $200 SS device. Scott --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Jan 27 21:24:02 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA12328 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:24:02 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:26:30 -0800 From: Jon Roland Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Several points: The fact that, according to Greg Jones, TAPR was close to a deal with Freewave for SS transceivers at $300 is a good sign. It seems likely that the abundance of 2.4 GHz transceivers being used in portable phones is likely to also soon make them available at such low prices, which have been falling rapidly, and in a competitive environment that seems like to drive prices down rapidly. We are not necessarily limited to SS transceivers during the initial development phases. We could use VHF packet transceivers such as the Kenwood TH-D7A, for a while, or for longer links. Many of the vendors are advertising 30 km ranges, under ideal conditions. This assumes longer antennas, but 2-3 meter whip antennas are man-portable. We may not be limited to 1W, either by getting a waiver, our own dedicated band, or in an emergency. Since even 2.4 GHz portable phones are getting a range of 2 km, I think we can plan on portable rigs with a range of say, 10-20 km. Assuming a hex grid, and a range of 15 km, we can assume coverage of about 700 square km, with some overlap, a 150,000 square km region with 50% coverage means about 100 nodes. Assume twice that to allow for misplacement and nonavailability for various reasons. The real costs are not so much for the transceivers as for the computers with enough hard disk storage to support store-and-forward. Compared to that, the transceivers are just another peripheral like a printer or scanner. Or a cell phone used to connect to the wired network. Funding would be by individuals, who will justify their expenditures for other purposes than just supporting a WIPnet. People are already doing that. There is no question of competing expenditures for solving the Y2K problem. This is about Plan C (people not part of the Y2K problem-solving effort preparing for the consequences of the problems not getting solved). The plan contemplates using other links if they are available in an emergency, such as wired links, satellites, HF, or whatever, but aiming to reduce or eliminate them if possible, in case they are unavailable. It also contemplates the use of means such as low-power, portable microbroadcasting rigs to spread information to the general public. The WIPnet can be justified for many reasons besides preparation for Y2K, but that is a good reason to focus our efforts and resources. It can do what VHF ham transceivers are being used for now, but make more efficient use of bandwidth, and support the transfer of data, images, etc., that will be critical for emergency purposes. --Jon KC5MYS =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/27/99 Time: 18:26:30 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org =================================================================== --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 01:25:59 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA28946 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:25:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:04:39 +1100 From: dwayne Organization: Nexus-Limbo X-Accept-Language: en,ja,zh,zh-TW,zh-CN,hr,en-GB,fi,de,el,is,no,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <36B00C06.8AE705A2@pobox.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Jon Roland wrote: > I found a database of wireless products, including spread spectrum modems, > that some of you might not be aware of. It is the Wireless LAN/MAN Modem > Product Directory http://hydra.carleton.ca/info/wlan.html This is a useful page, I think it may be maintained by a subscriber to this very list, although don't quote me on this. Unfortunately, though, a lot of these products are far too expensive for anything other than business uses. For your idea to come to fruition, we need affordable wireless bandwidth, which is not available, unless someone has some clever ideas. > But now how about some discussion about my proposal and not just a feeding > frenzy for $200 SS modems? :) Sure. It's a great idea! Where can we find $200 radio modems to do it? (Sure it's a great idea. It's not a new one. The Apple SuperNet proposal in I think 1994 was a similar idea. My PunkNet Project at http://i.am/punknet/ has been around since at least 1993. There's GuerillaNet. There's the Melbourne Radio Network Project at http://members.xoom.com/ssswan/overview.htm All of these are good ideas but are hampered by the expense of the transmission stage). So, yes, you have a nice idea. But for it to come about requires devices, not just ideas. If you have any ideas for cheap SS modems, let us know. I spent last night looking around some motorola pages with a friend. They have some *extremely* interesting micro controllers which may well be exactly what we need. Unfortunately, I'm a history student and he's a biologist, so we were over our heads. I'll post the relevant urls here if people are interested. Dwayne -- mailto:ddraig@pobox.com http://i.am/dwayne ....return....to....the....source.... --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 01:26:46 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA28965 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:26:46 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:06:00 +1100 From: dwayne Organization: Nexus-Limbo X-Accept-Language: en,ja,zh,zh-TW,zh-CN,hr,en-GB,fi,de,el,is,no,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] WLAN product directory at hydra References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <36B00C57.CE294C4E@pobox.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" wrote: > Does everyone on the list here realize the the mainter of this site is your > List moderator ? > > maybe not. Heh, I knew it was someone from this list, but not the listowner. This is funny :-) Dwayne -- mailto:ddraig@pobox.com http://i.am/dwayne ....return....to....the....source.... --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 08:49:07 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA20050 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:49:06 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: vulture.eecs.umich.edu: compuman owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:45:30 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Glover X-Sender: compuman@vulture.eecs.umich.edu To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I know this might seem like an odd question, but is there a chance that the 900 Mhz FSS project TAPR is working on will be ready in time? What is the estimated cost of those units? I have not read the recent details, but I know they were planning on roughly 500 Kbits/sec and intended 20 Mile range. If these units are cheap enough, why not consider using some of them? Also, I wonder if it would be possible to convince the Cellular companies to allow (in an emergency) their cells to be used as repeaters. Although the data rate achievable by standard analog, or even new digital cell phones is not terribly high, the density of cells may enable people (with cell phones and appropriate equipment) to effectively increase their coverage area. I rememeber hearing somewhere that an analog Cell tower at 3 W can go about 30 miles? Even if we could only get 9600bd through that we would only need one person per cell, which is MUCH less than the number of pepole required for other approaches....We could even in theory (assuming the cell companies cooperated) have stationary boxes which tie two channels together. I am assuming in the event of a "failure" each local cell can operate independently and can be rigged to simply act as a 3W repeater (for analog channels in the 800Mhz band). If we have functioning cellular networks (which I would not rely on), then we might be able to allow longer distance cell-to-cell calls... A final point: for long distance hops, will there be any satellites operating...ones simple enough to likely survive the 2K rollover? Some systems such as DSS for example have the ability to embed data on those channels, with a store and forward architecture this might be doable...even if we can only occasionaly use the link. As much as I would love to see everyone on this list, and thousands of volunteers all running around carying portable digital data links, I feel it is unreasonable to assume we have a solid link across the country. If people create local organizations and ensure that they can talk to their immediate neighbors, and at least one link out to some "central" (or "critical") "hub" we have a better chance of getting messages through. We would only need a small (like 1 or 2 per major metropolitan area) number of "other" links, hence it would be okay to spend $2K on them... CYA, Eric - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ...an enormous body of information science literature is based on work that *uses* relevance, without throughly understanding what it *means* ... without an understanding of what relevance means *to* users, it seems difficult to imagine how a system can retrieve relevant information *for* users. -- Schamber, 1990 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Eric Glover -- compuman@eecs.umich.edu Grad student hoping to finish before the year 2000! On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Jon Roland wrote: > Several points: > > The fact that, according to Greg Jones, TAPR was close to a deal with Freewave > for SS transceivers at $300 is a good sign. It seems likely that the abundance > of 2.4 GHz transceivers being used in portable phones is likely to also soon > make them available at such low prices, which have been falling rapidly, and > in a competitive environment that seems like to drive prices down rapidly. > > We are not necessarily limited to SS transceivers during the initial > development phases. We could use VHF packet transceivers such as the Kenwood > TH-D7A, for a while, or for longer links. > > Many of the vendors are advertising 30 km ranges, under ideal conditions. This > assumes longer antennas, but 2-3 meter whip antennas are man-portable. > > We may not be limited to 1W, either by getting a waiver, our own dedicated > band, or in an emergency. > > Since even 2.4 GHz portable phones are getting a range of 2 km, I think we can > plan on portable rigs with a range of say, 10-20 km. > > Assuming a hex grid, and a range of 15 km, we can assume coverage of about 700 > square km, with some overlap, a 150,000 square km region with 50% coverage > means about 100 nodes. Assume twice that to allow for misplacement and > nonavailability for various reasons. > > The real costs are not so much for the transceivers as for the computers with > enough hard disk storage to support store-and-forward. Compared to that, the > transceivers are just another peripheral like a printer or scanner. Or a cell > phone used to connect to the wired network. > > Funding would be by individuals, who will justify their expenditures for other > purposes than just supporting a WIPnet. People are already doing that. There > is no question of competing expenditures for solving the Y2K problem. This is > about Plan C (people not part of the Y2K problem-solving effort preparing for > the consequences of the problems not getting solved). > > The plan contemplates using other links if they are available in an emergency, > such as wired links, satellites, HF, or whatever, but aiming to reduce or > eliminate them if possible, in case they are unavailable. It also contemplates > the use of means such as low-power, portable microbroadcasting rigs to spread > information to the general public. > > The WIPnet can be justified for many reasons besides preparation for Y2K, but > that is a good reason to focus our efforts and resources. It can do what VHF > ham transceivers are being used for now, but make more efficient use of > bandwidth, and support the transfer of data, images, etc., that will be > critical for emergency purposes. > > --Jon KC5MYS > > =================================================================== > Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 > 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/27/99 Time: 18:26:30 > http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org > =================================================================== > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: COMPUMAN@EECS.UMICH.EDU > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 09:14:28 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA20835 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:14:28 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:12:03 -0500 (EST) From: Doug Crompton To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Maxim Newsletter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk My Maxim Wireless newsletter came yesterday and on about the fourth page is an RF Consultants Design Showcase. It shows a 900mhz data transceiver and a UHF data modem. Has anyone seen this? Pardon me if this is a repeat message or already well known. I do not view this list regularly. Doug **************************** * Doug Crompton * * Richboro, PA 18954 * * 215-355-5307 * * * * doug@crompton.com * * wa3dsp@wa3dsp.ampr.org * * http://www.crompton.com * **************************** --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 10:14:38 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA22584 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:14:38 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:11:11 -0600 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >I know this might seem like an odd question, but is there a chance that >the 900 Mhz FSS project TAPR is working on will be ready in time? What is >the estimated cost of those units? Ready in time for what ? The world wide Y2K failure. >As much as I would love to see everyone on this list, and thousands of >volunteers all running around carying portable digital data links, I feel >it is unreasonable to assume we have a solid link across the country. If >people create local organizations and ensure that they can talk to their >immediate neighbors, and at least one link out to some "central" (or >"critical") "hub" we have a better chance of getting messages through. I hate to burst anyones bubble, but if we truly believe the worse people are forecasting (which I don't) then your best bet for technology will be HTs with repeaters for local communications and HF communications for long distance. Either require little infrastructure as compared to trying to a SS network. >We would only need a small (like 1 or 2 per major metropolitan area) >number of "other" links, hence it would be okay to spend $2K on them... You should read Tom McDermott's article published in the TAPR Spread Spectrum update (http://www.tapr.org/taprf/html/Fpub.ss.html) on why you can't build long networks of local type services stringing them together without long distance networking. Most of us on this list have been there in the early and mid-80's. My suggestion would be to start honing your RTTY, AMTOR, and CLOVER on HF and getting those local packet circuits working again or doing packet via a voice repeater. The stuff is cheap. Works with existing radios and their is already a large population with the equipment in place. If you have less than a year, you don't have time to buy and implement new stuff. Cheers - Greg Jones, WD5IVD ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 11:03:44 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24201 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:03:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Robert Eaglestone" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:59:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Heck, when TAPR completes this project, I and at least 5 friends will be looking to use the info to set up our own little private WAN. Never mind Y2K and a national solution; we want to do it cheap and local, because it sounds fun and cool. > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Glover [SMTP:compuman@zip.eecs.umich.edu] > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 8:46 AM > To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts > > I know this might seem like an odd question, but is there a chance that > the 900 Mhz FSS project TAPR is working on will be ready in time? What is > the estimated cost of those units? > > I have not read the recent details, but I know they were planning on > roughly 500 Kbits/sec and intended 20 Mile range. If these units are > cheap enough, why not consider using some of them? > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 11:08:51 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24483 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:08:51 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:09:59 -0500 (EST) From: Johan Sosa To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Breaking the $200 barrier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk How much will the TAPR FHSS radio cost when it is released? I heard a guesstimate of $400 .. is this accurate? Also, will the design be open so that third parties can create clones or compatible modems? (it seems that way). According to the web page they seem to be making a lot of progress. I hope they have the radios available by the end of the year (actually I hope they have it available tomorrow ..but I try to be realistic). Maybe when the FHSS modems arrives it will be possible to start creating the SS based wireless internet. Also, does anyone have any idea how many people can be using the FHSS radios in the same area while still getting decent throughput? Btw, IMHO decent is about 28.8 kbps. later, Johan KE4DAK --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 14:02:11 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA00200 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:02:10 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:58:58 -0600 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: [ss] Re: Breaking the $200 barrier List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk If you haven't read or listened to all the FHSS talks and papers, then the first place to go is http://www.tapr.org/ss Check under FHSS project. All of your answers to these questions will be found on that page plus a lot more. >How much will the TAPR FHSS radio cost when it is released? Don't know. Depends on factors yet to be determined. How many are going to be sold ? Is there a Part 15 market ? This radio in beta testing will cost around $1000 each. Later in production all depends on how many are being mfg. >I heard a guesstimate of $400 .. is this accurate? Also, will the design >be open so that third parties can create clones or compatible modems? >(it seems that way). According to the web page they seem to be making a >lot of progress. I hope they have the radios available by the end of the >year (actually I hope they have it available tomorrow ..but I try to be >realistic). As with most TAPR product, the design will be available for license. I highly doubt we will have radios by the end of the year. With luck we will be in beta testing of some stage. >Also, does anyone have any idea how many people can be using the FHSS >radios in the same area while still getting decent throughput? >Btw, IMHO decent is about 28.8 kbps. Depends on the mode you have it setup for and how fast the radios will work when we have them running. In bridging mode where you use one central node to communicate to a few then the more people you add the higher the latencies will be. After you get more than say 3 or 4 users on the bridge it will then be time to switch over to a multiple radio at the hub implementation. No software written for that yet, but it is discussed in details in the papers on the project. Cheers - Greg ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 16:19:26 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA05118 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:19:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: From: "Cureton David (NTC/MPD)" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:16:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <199901282217.AAA04513@ns11.nokia.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk One thing I think that is being missed in this thread is what applications are going to be run over this national network of SS nodes. Is critical that you can communicate east coast to west coast? I can see the challenge factor that would make this project interesting but of what other value it would be I don't know. In the even of a total electronic communication breakdown I predict that people with revert back to the management of there immediate surroundings not those 1000+ kms away. In any case I am sure a postal service could still be maintained. All those people that can no longer work because the power/telecom outage could be recruited to sort the mail instead of the mail sorting machines in the even of major deprivation of services. As I see it the major issue to the northern hemisphere is that it will be Winter. I would be more concerned about having a solution for heating/cooking for the couple of weeks that there may be no electricity/gas/oil. Well, That's my humble opinion. David ---------- From: Eric Glover To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Date: Thursday, 28 January, 1999 4:45PM I know this might seem like an odd question, but is there a chance that the 900 Mhz FSS project TAPR is working on will be ready in time? What is the estimated cost of those units? I have not read the recent details, but I know they were planning on roughly 500 Kbits/sec and intended 20 Mile range. If these units are cheap enough, why not consider using some of them? Also, I wonder if it would be possible to convince the Cellular companies to allow (in an emergency) their cells to be used as repeaters. Although the data rate achievable by standard analog, or even new digital cell phones is not terribly high, the density of cells may enable people (with cell phones and appropriate equipment) to effectively increase their coverage area. I rememeber hearing somewhere that an analog Cell tower at 3 W can go about 30 miles? Even if we could only get 9600bd through that we would only need one person per cell, which is MUCH less than the number of pepole required for other approaches....We could even in theory (assuming the cell companies cooperated) have stationary boxes which tie two channels together. I am assuming in the event of a "failure" each local cell can operate independently and can be rigged to simply act as a 3W repeater (for analog channels in the 800Mhz band). If we have functioning cellular networks (which I would not rely on), then we might be able to allow longer distance cell-to-cell calls... A final point: for long distance hops, will there be any satellites operating...ones simple enough to likely survive the 2K rollover? Some systems such as DSS for example have the ability to embed data on those channels, with a store and forward architecture this might be doable...even if we can only occasionaly use the link. As much as I would love to see everyone on this list, and thousands of volunteers all running around carying portable digital data links, I feel it is unreasonable to assume we have a solid link across the country. If people create local organizations and ensure that they can talk to their immediate neighbors, and at least one link out to some "central" (or "critical") "hub" we have a better chance of getting messages through. We would only need a small (like 1 or 2 per major metropolitan area) number of "other" links, hence it would be okay to spend $2K on them... CYA, Eric - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ...an enormous body of information science literature is based on work that *uses* relevance, without throughly understanding what it *means* ... without an understanding of what relevance means *to* users, it seems difficult to imagine how a system can retrieve relevant information *for* users. -- Schamber, 1990 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Eric Glover -- compuman@eecs.umich.edu Grad student hoping to finish before the year 2000! On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Jon Roland wrote: > Several points: > > The fact that, according to Greg Jones, TAPR was close to a deal with Freewave > for SS transceivers at $300 is a good sign. It seems likely that the abundance > of 2.4 GHz transceivers being used in portable phones is likely to also soon > make them available at such low prices, which have been falling rapidly, and > in a competitive environment that seems like to drive prices down rapidly. > > We are not necessarily limited to SS transceivers during the initial > development phases. We could use VHF packet transceivers such as the Kenwood > TH-D7A, for a while, or for longer links. > > Many of the vendors are advertising 30 km ranges, under ideal conditions. This > assumes longer antennas, but 2-3 meter whip antennas are man-portable. > > We may not be limited to 1W, either by getting a waiver, our own dedicated > band, or in an emergency. > > Since even 2.4 GHz portable phones are getting a range of 2 km, I think we can > plan on portable rigs with a range of say, 10-20 km. > > Assuming a hex grid, and a range of 15 km, we can assume coverage of about 700 > square km, with some overlap, a 150,000 square km region with 50% coverage > means about 100 nodes. Assume twice that to allow for misplacement and > nonavailability for various reasons. > > The real costs are not so much for the transceivers as for the computers with > enough hard disk storage to support store-and-forward. Compared to that, the > transceivers are just another peripheral like a printer or scanner. Or a cell > phone used to connect to the wired network. > > Funding would be by individuals, who will justify their expenditures for other > purposes than just supporting a WIPnet. People are already doing that. There > is no question of competing expenditures for solving the Y2K problem. This is > about Plan C (people not part of the Y2K problem-solving effort preparing for > the consequences of the problems not getting solved). > > The plan contemplates using other links if they are available in an emergency, > such as wired links, satellites, HF, or whatever, but aiming to reduce or > eliminate them if possible, in case they are unavailable. It also contemplates > the use of means such as low-power, portable microbroadcasting rigs to spread > information to the general public. > > The WIPnet can be justified for many reasons besides preparation for Y2K, but > that is a good reason to focus our efforts and resources. It can do what VHF > ham transceivers are being used for now, but make more efficient use of > bandwidth, and support the transfer of data, images, etc., that will be > critical for emergency purposes. > > --Jon KC5MYS > > =================================================================== > Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 > 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 01/27/99 Time: 18:26:30 > http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org > =================================================================== > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: COMPUMAN@EECS.UMICH.EDU > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: CURETON@TRSMPD01ME.NTC.NOKIA.COM To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 23:07:36 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA26800 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:07:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:08:12 +1100 From: dwayne Organization: Nexus-Limbo X-Accept-Language: en,ja,zh,zh-TW,zh-CN,hr,en-GB,fi,de,el,is,no,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <36B14239.2750528D@pobox.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Robert Eaglestone wrote: > Heck, when TAPR completes this project, I and at least 5 friends > will be looking to use the info to set up our own little private WAN. > Never mind Y2K and a national solution; we want to do it cheap > and local, because it sounds fun and cool. I have a dozen friends here in Melbourne, Australia impatiently waiting for the project to be ready, although the list of interested people is at the 30+ mark ( we want to start small to begin with) but we're getting impatient and are also looking at doing something ourselves. We lack any radio knowledge, though :-) So I suspect that the TAPR project will beat us to a finished product, but I'm not fussed, I just want to link some systems together and play with distributed processing and Inferno/Jini, I don't really care how it comes about so long as it is fast and cheap. Low latency would be nice, but not critical I had a look over some of motorola's monolithic chip designs the other night. Are any of these useful? There are some impressively powerful single chip processors, DSPs and clocks for sale at very low prices in quantity. But I lack the knowledge to accurately evaluate their usefulness :-( Dwayne (history student strangely metamorphosing into a network dude) -- mailto:ddraig@pobox.com http://i.am/dwayne ....return....to....the....source.... --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 23:15:59 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA27041 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:15:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: n8gnj@tapr.org Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:15:50 -0800 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Steve Stroh N8GNJ Subject: [ss] Re: If you really want some SS equipment to experiment with... In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.19990128211035.040e8c20@mail.strohpub.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk One of the more reasonably-priced vendors of Part 15 Spread Spectrum equipment is O'Neill Connectivities, Inc. - OCI (http://www.ocilawn.com) Given TAPR's timeline for completion of the Spread Spectrum Radio, and the apparent interest on this list for "something to work with, and soon", perhaps the OCI equipment will give you some ideas. Of course, there's ALWAYS the group buy route of existing equipment if someone is willing to do the grunt work of finding equipment at good prices, gathering names and purchase commitments, collecting the money, paying the vendor, distributing the purchased product, etc. There's PLENTY of equipment out there... Steve N8GNJ At 16:08 1/29/99 +1100, you wrote: >Robert Eaglestone wrote: > >> Heck, when TAPR completes this project, I and at least 5 friends >> will be looking to use the info to set up our own little private WAN. >> Never mind Y2K and a national solution; we want to do it cheap >> and local, because it sounds fun and cool. > >I have a dozen friends here in Melbourne, Australia impatiently waiting for the >project to be ready, although the list of interested people is at the 30+ >mark ( >we want to start small to begin with) but we're getting impatient and are also >looking at doing something ourselves. > >We lack any radio knowledge, though :-) > >So I suspect that the TAPR project will beat us to a finished product, but I'm >not fussed, I just want to link some systems together and play with distributed >processing and Inferno/Jini, I don't really care how it comes about so long as >it is fast and cheap. Low latency would be nice, but not critical > > >I had a look over some of motorola's monolithic chip designs the other night. >Are any of these useful? There are some impressively powerful single chip >processors, DSPs and clocks for sale at very low prices in quantity. But I >lack >the knowledge to accurately evaluate their usefulness :-( > > >Dwayne (history student strangely metamorphosing into a network dude) >-- >mailto:ddraig@pobox.com http://i.am/dwayne > >....return....to....the....source.... > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: N8GNJ@TAPR.ORG >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 23:21:40 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA27270 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:21:40 -0600 (CST) From: "Jason Wagner" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: If you really want some SS equipment to experiment with... Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:28:15 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001c01be4b48$2bd5e840$c45b8796@jason.uasv.arizona.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk if it means getting ss equpiment cheap, i'll volunteer. > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-ss-5346@lists.tapr.org > [mailto:bounce-ss-5346@lists.tapr.org]On Behalf Of Steve Stroh N8GNJ > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 10:16 PM > To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Subject: [ss] Re: If you really want some SS equipment to experiment > with... > > > > One of the more reasonably-priced vendors of Part 15 Spread Spectrum > equipment is O'Neill Connectivities, Inc. - OCI (http://www.ocilawn.com) > Given TAPR's timeline for completion of the Spread Spectrum Radio, and the > apparent interest on this list for "something to work with, and soon", > perhaps the OCI equipment will give you some ideas. > > Of course, there's ALWAYS the group buy route of existing equipment if > someone is willing to do the grunt work of finding equipment at good > prices, gathering names and purchase commitments, collecting the money, > paying the vendor, distributing the purchased product, etc. > > There's PLENTY of equipment out there... > > Steve N8GNJ > > > At 16:08 1/29/99 +1100, you wrote: > >Robert Eaglestone wrote: > > > >> Heck, when TAPR completes this project, I and at least 5 friends > >> will be looking to use the info to set up our own little private WAN. > >> Never mind Y2K and a national solution; we want to do it cheap > >> and local, because it sounds fun and cool. > > > >I have a dozen friends here in Melbourne, Australia impatiently waiting > for the > >project to be ready, although the list of interested people is > at the 30+ > >mark ( > >we want to start small to begin with) but we're getting > impatient and are also > >looking at doing something ourselves. > > > >We lack any radio knowledge, though :-) > > > >So I suspect that the TAPR project will beat us to a finished > product, but I'm > >not fussed, I just want to link some systems together and play with > distributed > >processing and Inferno/Jini, I don't really care how it comes > about so long as > >it is fast and cheap. Low latency would be nice, but not critical > > > > > >I had a look over some of motorola's monolithic chip designs the > other night. > >Are any of these useful? There are some impressively powerful > single chip > >processors, DSPs and clocks for sale at very low prices in > quantity. But I > >lack > >the knowledge to accurately evaluate their usefulness :-( > > > > > >Dwayne (history student strangely metamorphosing into a network dude) > >-- > >mailto:ddraig@pobox.com http://i.am/dwayne > > > >....return....to....the....source.... > > > > > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to ss as: N8GNJ@TAPR.ORG > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JASON@ONYX.UASV.ARIZONA.EDU > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Jan 28 23:50:12 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA29794 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:50:12 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: References: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:22:32 -0600 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: [ss] Re: If you really want some SS equipment to experiment with... List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Let us not forget that TAPR has a TALNET specail going on. Been in the last several TAPR PSRs. $550 for the router(PC/NOS)/radio(2.4G) combination and whatever the shipping cost is to where they go. Docs are in ftp://ftp.tapr.org/talnet Cheers _ Greg >One of the more reasonably-priced vendors of Part 15 Spread Spectrum >equipment is O'Neill Connectivities, Inc. - OCI (http://www.ocilawn.com) >Given TAPR's timeline for completion of the Spread Spectrum Radio, and the >apparent interest on this list for "something to work with, and soon", >perhaps the OCI equipment will give you some ideas. > >Of course, there's ALWAYS the group buy route of existing equipment if >someone is willing to do the grunt work of finding equipment at good >prices, gathering names and purchase commitments, collecting the money, >paying the vendor, distributing the purchased product, etc. > >There's PLENTY of equipment out there... > >Steve N8GNJ ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Jan 29 08:20:09 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA27982 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:20:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:11:35 -0600 From: Jake Janovetz To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: ; from dwayne on Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 04:08:12PM +1100 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <19990129081135.C10436@tempest.ece.uiuc.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dwayne, if you're interested, I have done a bit of work with the 68360 and RTEMS (a real-time OS, publicly available). Some time ago, I told the TAPR-SS group about this but they weren't interested. They're using XINU. The point is, I have ftpd, telnetd, and httpd already written for RTEMS. In addition, a port of Kaffe is underway to RTEMS (Kaffe is an Open Source JAVA for those of you who don't know). So, Dwayne, if you and your boys from down-under get working on your own project, I'd be more than happy to send schematics and code your way. I also have a good deal of experience with the Motorola DSP if you choose to do your radio that way. It's MUCH more flexible, but won't be as cheap as the TAPR modem. I've built a highly flexible baseband transmitter/receiver for the digital communications course here at the University of Illinois. For more information, check out my home page. Cheers, Jake On Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 04:08:12PM +1100, dwayne wrote: > Robert Eaglestone wrote: > > > Heck, when TAPR completes this project, I and at least 5 friends > > will be looking to use the info to set up our own little private WAN. > > Never mind Y2K and a national solution; we want to do it cheap > > and local, because it sounds fun and cool. > > I have a dozen friends here in Melbourne, Australia impatiently waiting for the > project to be ready, although the list of interested people is at the 30+ mark ( > we want to start small to begin with) but we're getting impatient and are also > looking at doing something ourselves. > > We lack any radio knowledge, though :-) > > So I suspect that the TAPR project will beat us to a finished product, but I'm > not fussed, I just want to link some systems together and play with distributed > processing and Inferno/Jini, I don't really care how it comes about so long as > it is fast and cheap. Low latency would be nice, but not critical > > > I had a look over some of motorola's monolithic chip designs the other night. > Are any of these useful? There are some impressively powerful single chip > processors, DSPs and clocks for sale at very low prices in quantity. But I lack > the knowledge to accurately evaluate their usefulness :-( > > > Dwayne (history student strangely metamorphosing into a network dude) > -- > mailto:ddraig@pobox.com http://i.am/dwayne > > ....return....to....the....source.... > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: JANOVETZ@UIUC.EDU > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org -- janovetz@uiuc.edu | Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with University of Illinois | your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, | there you long to return. -- da Vinci PP-ASEL | http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~janovetz/index.html --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Jan 29 12:15:09 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09077 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:15:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Bret Berger" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] TALNET Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:13:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002501be4bb3$1201f560$3dd182cc@henry> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone on the list set up a link using the the TALNET equipment? Any comment on how they perform? I have (bows head in shame) let my TAPR membership expire. Did the PSR give any info about these devices not contained in the .PDF manuals on the FTP site? -bret -----Original Message----- From: Greg Jones, WD5IVD To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Date: Thursday, January 28, 1999 10:49 PM Subject: [ss] Re: If you really want some SS equipment to experiment with... >Let us not forget that TAPR has a TALNET specail going on. Been in the >last several TAPR PSRs. > >$550 for the router(PC/NOS)/radio(2.4G) combination and whatever the >shipping cost is to where they go. Docs are in ftp://ftp.tapr.org/talnet --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Jan 29 13:02:42 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA10942 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:02:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Hare, Ed, W1RFI" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: TALNET Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:57:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <8060D04206ABD2118C6800805FC743CC0F6AC6@mail.arrl.org> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >I have (bows head in shame) let my TAPR membership expire. >-bret I had managed to do that too, but they were very kind and allowed me to renew back to my expiration date. :-) I will be up for renewal again in May, but I want to continue to support SS. 73 from ARRL HQ, Ed Hare, W1RFI ARRL Lab 225 Main St Newington, CT 06111 860-594-0318 w1rfi@arrl.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Jan 29 16:35:52 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA22752 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:35:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Jim K." To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:36:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <003401be4bd7$d21b2a00$1400a8c0@fchip.jk> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >Heck, when TAPR completes this project, I and at least 5 friends >will be looking to use the info to set up our own little private WAN. >Never mind Y2K and a national solution; we want to do it cheap >and local, because it sounds fun and cool. > Same here.. It's Fun and Cool! I want to set up a local WAN with my friends. People keep joking about the completion date, but for real, when will it be ready? Jim --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Jan 29 16:52:02 1999 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23249 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:52:02 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Mike Rafferty" Organization: zoomnet.net To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:35:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [ss] Re: Proposed Wireless Internet of Portable hosts Priority: normal List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <199901292250.RAA23246@ns3.zoomnet.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > This sucks, a proposal that references $200 units then when someone > asks were they can buy them, they are told, follow this URL and go check > out the various different vendor that might or might not publish prices. > You got a reference or not. If not then the $200 price point is vapor. > If you don't know the URL or can give a reference then posting a > general reference to where one might yet the info is a waste of time for > all involved. Scott, This sounds like BS to me. I may be wrong, but here in Appalachia. I don't hear much about SS....... Mike --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org