From wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org Tue Nov 05 14:03:21 1996 Received: from wb9mjn.ampr.org (wb9mjn.ampr.org [44.72.98.19]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id OAA20840 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:02:59 -0600 (CST) From: wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 13:59:54 UTC Message-Id: <11338@wb9mjn.ampr.org> To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Is this group still active? Have not seen anything from SS, for almost a month. 73, Don. Mailbox : WB9MJN @ N9HSI.IL.USA.NA AMPRNet : wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org[44.72.98.19] Internet: wb9mjn%wb9mjn.ampr.org@uugate.aim.utah.edu From srbible@gnatnet.net Tue Nov 05 20:17:37 1996 Received: from rupe.gnatnet.net (root@rupe.gnatnet.net [206.30.198.8]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id UAA06145 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:17:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from avatar.eagnet.com ([199.76.206.109]) by rupe.gnatnet.net (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA00507 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:18:23 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961106021735.006ba7c4@gnatnet.net> X-Sender: srbible@gnatnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 21:17:35 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Steven R. Bible" Subject: Web Pages of Interest [was: Is this group still active?] At 02:08 PM 11/5/96 -0600, you wrote: > > Have not seen anything from SS, for almost a month. Gee Don, I was just about to post something when you wrote :-). Here's some SS related web pages I have found recently. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ And EDN artical about SS. Written from a journalist point of view - Caveat Empor. http://www.ednmag.com/CURRENT/101096/21df_02.htm -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ The Harris Wireless web site has had a face lift. The PRISM chipset is getting a lot of press (I'm not sure why, could someone tell me?). There's a bunch of application notes and even schematic diagrams for a SS radio! http://www.semi.harris.com/prism.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ A new Alliance call the Wireless LAN Alliance (WLANA). Their home page is located: http://www.wlana.com/index.html They have an Introduction to Wireless LANs page http://www.wlana.com/intro/index.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ WaveLAN now Lucent Technologies (formerly AT&T GIS and NCR) has a very nice web site. http://www.wavelan.com Take a look at the technical bulletins at: http://www.wavelan.com/support/libdocs.htm#technotes Some interesting things here. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ And this is by far the COOLEST page yet. Check out HPs "Interactive Models from the T&M Application Notes Library" page: http://www.tmo.hp.com/tmo/appnotes/interactive/index.html you need a Java capable browser to fully view this page. Now we need a page like this for SS! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Has anyone else found a web page that is SS oriented? I know it's about time to update the SS web pages at the TAPR web site with these new finds. Soon I hope! 73, - Steve, N7HPR (n7hpr@tapr.org) From lylej@azstarnet.com Wed Nov 06 09:05:07 1996 Received: from mailhost.azstarnet.com (mailhost.azstarnet.com [169.197.1.8]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id JAA09053 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:05:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from tomswift2 (usr7ip14.azstarnet.com [169.197.8.14]) by mailhost.azstarnet.com (8.7.6/8.7.6) with SMTP id IAA27461 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:02:49 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:02:49 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961106080347.00308e18@pop.azstarnet.com> X-Sender: lylej@pop.azstarnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ss@tapr.org From: Lyle Johnson Subject: Re: [SS:531] Web Pages of Interest [was: Is this group still active?] >The Harris Wireless web site has had a face lift. The PRISM chipset is >getting a lot of press (I'm not sure why, could someone tell me?). There's >a bunch of application notes and even schematic diagrams for a SS radio! > > http://www.semi.harris.com/prism.html Steve, We are looking VERY closely at the PRISM chipset for products at work. It allows us to build a 2 MBPS SS radio system for a cost of well under $200/radio in small (around 1,000) quantities -- about half the price of ANY "OEM" modules we have located. And, they have already done much of the hard work (microstrip line design, PCB layout to work OK at 2.4 GHS and decouple the digital stuff from the analog stuff). FInally, it allows us to interface this thing to our on-vehicle electronics package at the CPU bus level, not some silly serial port or (ugh) modified centronics parallel printer port. Anyway, those are a few reasons we're interested :-) Might make a solid basis for a TAPR SS radio? Cheers, Lyle From rlanier@su102s.ess.harris.com Wed Nov 06 12:06:38 1996 Received: from ess.harris.com (su15a.ess.harris.com [130.41.1.251]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id MAA16665 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:06:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from losalamos.ess.harris.com (su102s.ess.harris.com) by ess.harris.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00920; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:06:33 -0500 Received: from Sopchoppy.GASD102designcenter by losalamos.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18654; Wed, 6 Nov 96 13:06:32 EST Received: by Sopchoppy.GASD102designcenter (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA01796; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:06:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:06:30 -0500 From: rlanier@su102s.ess.harris.com (Tony Lanier) Message-Id: <199611061806.NAA01796@Sopchoppy.GASD102designcenter> To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:530] Is this group still active? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII > > Have not seen anything from SS, for almost a month. > > > 73, Don. > > Mailbox : WB9MJN @ N9HSI.IL.USA.NA > AMPRNet : wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org[44.72.98.19] > Internet: wb9mjn%wb9mjn.ampr.org@uugate.aim.utah.edu > > Lets start a discussion about the PRISM SS chip set from Harris :) 73s de Tony, KE4ATO From rlanier@su102s.ess.harris.com Wed Nov 06 12:18:59 1996 Received: from ess.harris.com (su15a.ess.harris.com [130.41.1.251]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id MAA17117 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:18:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from losalamos.ess.harris.com (su102s.ess.harris.com) by ess.harris.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA01081; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:18:54 -0500 Received: from Sopchoppy.GASD102designcenter by losalamos.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18938; Wed, 6 Nov 96 13:18:53 EST Received: by Sopchoppy.GASD102designcenter (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA01849; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:18:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:18:51 -0500 From: rlanier@su102s.ess.harris.com (Tony Lanier) Message-Id: <199611061818.NAA01849@Sopchoppy.GASD102designcenter> To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:531] Web Pages of Interest [was: Is this group still active?] X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > And this is by far the COOLEST page yet. Check out HPs "Interactive Models > from the T&M Application Notes Library" page: > > http://www.tmo.hp.com/tmo/appnotes/interactive/index.html > > you need a Java capable browser to fully view this page. Now we need a page > like this for SS! > > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > Has anyone else found a web page that is SS oriented? I know it's about > time to update the SS web pages at the TAPR web site with these new finds. > Soon I hope! > > 73, > > - Steve, N7HPR > (n7hpr@tapr.org) > > Man, this web site is EXCELLENT !!! If anyone wants to get together and do a spread-spectrum web site in this format, let me know!!! You HAVE to check this site out!!! 73s de Tony, KE4ATO From dtaylor@usdata.com Wed Nov 06 12:42:30 1996 Received: from mail.usdata.com (firewall-user@mail.usdata.com [206.175.68.19]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id MAA17811 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:42:29 -0600 (CST) Received: by mail.usdata.com; id MAA27588; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:23:11 -0500 Received: from mailgate.usdata(192.195.181.98) by gateway.usdata.com via smap (V3.1) id xma027586; Wed, 6 Nov 96 12:23:09 -0500 Received: from taylor.usdata ([192.195.179.21]) by mailgate.usdata (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA106 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:34:05 -0600 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961106183945.0069ba38@mailgate.usdata> X-Sender: dtaylor@mailgate.usdata X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 12:39:45 -0600 To: From: dtaylor@usdata.com (Doug Taylor) Subject: Re: [SS:530] Is this group still active? It seems a little inactive at the present. If anyone would like, I can post bulletins and tech info from the Part 15/commercial spread spectrum publications I receive at work. If nobody is interested, then I'll refrain. Since the mood both in Congress and at the FCC is toward less regulation, many spread spectrum networking and bridging devices are hitting the market. Some of these devices are higher power than previously marketed systems and they are designed for long range communications. They have obvious applications for packet network backbones. At 02:54 PM 11/5/96 CST, you wrote: > > Have not seen anything from SS, for almost a month. > > >73, Don. > >Mailbox : WB9MJN @ N9HSI.IL.USA.NA >AMPRNet : wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org[44.72.98.19] >Internet: wb9mjn%wb9mjn.ampr.org@uugate.aim.utah.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > From hilman@camosun.bc.ca Wed Nov 06 13:14:15 1996 Received: from ccins.camosun.bc.ca (ccins.camosun.bc.ca [204.174.56.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA18883 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:14:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from hilman.cs.camosun.bc.ca by ccins.camosun.bc.ca; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/26Apr96-1024PM) id AA19566; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:14:12 -0800 Message-Id: <32818CEB.1AFB@camosun.bc.ca> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 23:16:59 -0800 From: Don Hilman X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ss@tapr.org Subject: SS developments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would be very interested in seeing more commercial devices discussed. We are looking at both amateur and commercial apps in our Computer Science Lab. VE7FBI From tfilecco@bbn.com Wed Nov 06 13:51:14 1996 Received: from zafu.bbn.com (ZAFU.BBN.COM [128.89.0.25]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id NAA20685 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:49:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from thor.bbn.com (THOR.BBN.COM [128.89.26.88]) by zafu.bbn.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA14014 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:48:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961106194749.00686b1c@po1.bbn.com> X-Sender: tfilecco@po1.bbn.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 14:47:49 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: Tom Filecco Subject: Re: [SS:535] Re: Is this group still active? >It seems a little inactive at the present. If anyone would like, I can post >bulletins and tech info from the Part 15/commercial spread spectrum >publications I receive at work. If nobody is interested, then I'll refrain. > Sounds good to me. Go for it. -Tom, KA2UCP From ronen@ronen.netmanage.co.il Wed Nov 06 13:57:50 1996 Received: from ronen.netmanage.co.il (ronen.netmanage.co.il [194.90.33.36]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA20959 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:57:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 21:46:04 EST Message-Id: <156643@ronen.netmanage.co.il> From: Pinchook Ronen To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Looking for Wireless Lan Card X-BBS-Msg-Type: P Hello Fellows Since you said that the mailing list is quiet , here is my question I'm looking for a Wireless lan card that will be cheep (less then 500 $) and will give me a High speed rate (at least 1.5MB/s) with a range of about 8KM (can be with external antennas) No matter What Band (prefered 2.4Ghz or 1.2GHz) Thanks Forward Ronen - 4Z4ZQ From lfry@wdl.lmco.com Wed Nov 06 15:08:28 1996 Received: from wdl1.wdl.lmco.com (wdl1.wdl.lmco.com [137.249.32.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id PAA24454 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:08:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from wdl.marble.litc.lockheed.com by wdl1.wdl.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/WDL-5.0) id NAA08462; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:08:08 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961106210922.0089f6e8@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com> X-Sender: lfry@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 16:09:22 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Lee W. Fry" Subject: Station ID Requirements OK, Lets get some discussion going. FCC Part 97.119, Station Identification says: (a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every ten minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any call sign not authorized to the station. And in subpara (5): By a CW or phone emission during SS emission transmission on a narrow bandwidth frequency segment. Alternatively, by the changing of one or more parameters of the emission so that a conventional CW or phone emission receiver can be used to determine the station call sign. None of the STA's ask for a waiver to this requirement. Obviously, part 15 devices, being unlicensed have no requirement to ID themselves. So, say we were working with an off the shelf chip set (For example Prism - see http://www.semi.harris.com/datasheets/wireless/wireless_family.html), how could we meet this requirement? Is there any kind of a data stream that could be input to a DSSS transceiver that would cause the emission to be such that it would look like a call sign to a conventional CW or phone emission receiver? Lee AA0JP See my Part 15 Device page at http://www.mindspring.com/~lfry/part15.htm From kevin.jessup@mail.mei.com Wed Nov 06 17:23:21 1996 Received: from mail.mei.com (meipws.mis.mei.com [151.186.40.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id RAA00752 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:23:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from caffeine (caffeine.isdn.mei.com) by meipws.mis.mei.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #5043) id <01IBJ6HV65Y88XAMWD@meipws.mis.mei.com> for ss@tapr.org; Wed, 06 Nov 1996 16:42:51 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 16:45:55 -0600 From: Kevin Jessup Subject: Re: [SS:539] Station ID Requirements X-Sender: jessupkp@meipws.mis.mei.com To: ss@tapr.org Message-id: <01IBJ6HV9DOY8XAMWD@meipws.mis.mei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT At 03:11 PM 11/6/96 -0600, you wrote: >Is there any kind of a data stream that could be input to a DSSS transceiver >that would cause the emission to be such that it would look like a call sign >to a conventional CW or phone emission receiver? Did you mean DATA stream or CHIP stream? I don't think changing the DATA stream would have any affect on the wide-band DSSS emission caused by the PN stream. You probably didn't mean that. The idea of playing with the PN stream to produce non-ss emissions sounds interesting. Can this be done? I've played with "software radios" on the receive side, demodulation via DSP, but the transmit side of things I have not looked at yet. I can't see manipulating the PN code entirely in software. Nowhere near fast enough. >Lee AA0JP Kevin, n9sqb -- kevin.jessup@meipws.mis.mei.com Marquette Medical Systems http://www.mei.com From wd5ivd@tapr.org Wed Nov 06 18:03:32 1996 Received: from [208.134.134.42] ([208.134.134.42]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id SAA02535 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:03:30 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01IBJ6HV9DOY8XAMWD@meipws.mis.mei.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:04:52 -0600 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: Re: [SS:540] Re: Station ID Requirements The one thing that many of agree on is what Phil Karn has proposed. That is the ID must be within the same power spectrual density as the transmission. Doesn't matter how it happens, but I think we can agree we don't need to be swtiching to some narrow-band transmission to ID what we are doing. IDing could be an issue on the upcoming SS rules when the FCC finally gets around to them. This is something that does need a solution. Cheers - Greg, WD5IVD >At 03:11 PM 11/6/96 -0600, you wrote: > >>Is there any kind of a data stream that could be input to a DSSS transceiver >>that would cause the emission to be such that it would look like a call sign >>to a conventional CW or phone emission receiver? > >Did you mean DATA stream or CHIP stream? > >I don't think changing the DATA stream would have >any affect on the wide-band DSSS emission caused by >the PN stream. You probably didn't mean that. > >The idea of playing with the PN stream to produce >non-ss emissions sounds interesting. Can this be done? >I've played with "software radios" on the receive side, >demodulation via DSP, but the transmit side of things >I have not looked at yet. I can't see manipulating >the PN code entirely in software. Nowhere near fast >enough. > >>Lee AA0JP > >Kevin, n9sqb > >-- >kevin.jessup@meipws.mis.mei.com >Marquette Medical Systems >http://www.mei.com ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- From jeff@mich.com Wed Nov 06 18:16:41 1996 Received: from server1.mich.com (root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id SAA02849 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:16:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from jeff (pm103.c4systm.com [204.120.124.23]) by server1.mich.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11772; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:16:55 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961107001730.006996cc@mail.mich.com> X-Sender: jeff@mail.mich.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 19:17:30 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: Jeff King Subject: Re: [SS:539] Station ID Requirements Cc: ss@tapr.org At 03:11 PM 11/6/96 -0600, Lee W. Fry wrote: >OK, Lets get some discussion going. FCC Part 97.119, Station Identification >says: clip >And in subpara (5): > >By a CW or phone emission during SS emission transmission on a narrow >bandwidth frequency segment. Alternatively, by the changing of one or more >parameters of the emission so that a conventional CW or phone emission >receiver can be used to determine the station call sign. > clip > >Is there any kind of a data stream that could be input to a DSSS transceiver >that would cause the emission to be such that it would look like a call sign >to a conventional CW or phone emission receiver? > >Lee AA0JP > Just key the RF. If a narrowband can detect the SS station then it will be able to detect the "morse code" being sent via the noise floor rising and failing in unison with the morse code. I think(?) that would comply with subpara (5) which you cite. Most SS trancievers have a 'test' mode (including the freewave) in which you can generate continous RF. 73 Jeff WB8WKA Linked to the internet via a FreeWave From bm@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org Wed Nov 06 21:51:10 1996 Received: from lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org (lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org [44.135.96.100]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id VAA11929 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 21:51:05 -0600 (CST) Received: (from bm@localhost) by lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA23112 for ss@tapr.org; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 03:52:43 GMT From: Barry McLarnon VE3JF Message-Id: <199611070352.DAA23112@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org> Subject: Re: [SS:531] Web Pages of Interest [was: Is this group still active?] To: ss@tapr.org Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 03:52:42 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961106021735.006ba7c4@gnatnet.net> from "Steven R. Bible" at Nov 5, 96 08:20:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Steve wrote: > Has anyone else found a web page that is SS oriented? I know it's about > time to update the SS web pages at the TAPR web site with these new finds. > Soon I hope! No new web sites to add, but I thought I'd mention my Wireless LAN/MAN Modem page (http://hydra.carleton.ca/info/wlan.html), as some of you may not have run across it. I've done a bit of updating of late, but still have some new stuff to add when I get a 'round tuit'. Aside from the EDN article which has been mentioned, here are a couple of other recent articles which are worth a look (especially the IEEE one - the other one is basically a thinly-disguised ad for WaveLAN): Richard LaMaire et al, "Wireless LANs and Mobile Networking: Standards and Future Directions", IEEE Communications Magazine, August 1996, pp. 86-94. Adriaan Kamerman, "Spread-Spectrum Techniques Drive WLAN Performance", Microwaves & RF, September 1996, p. 109ff. Barry -- Barry McLarnon VE3JF/VA3TCP | Internet: bm@hydra.carleton.ca Ottawa Amateur Radio Club | AMPRnet: bm@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org Packet Working Group | Web: http://hydra.carleton.ca From bm@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org Wed Nov 06 22:26:45 1996 Received: from lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org (lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org [44.135.96.100]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA13087 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:26:41 -0600 (CST) Received: (from bm@localhost) by lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA23157 for ss@tapr.org; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 04:28:20 GMT From: Barry McLarnon VE3JF Message-Id: <199611070428.EAA23157@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org> Subject: Re: [SS:538] Looking for Wireless Lan Card To: ss@tapr.org Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 04:28:20 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <156643@ronen.netmanage.co.il> from "Pinchook Ronen" at Nov 6, 96 02:01:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text > Hello Fellows > Since you said that the mailing list is quiet , here is my question > I'm looking for a Wireless lan card that will be cheep (less then 500 $) > and will give me a High speed rate (at least 1.5MB/s) > with a range of about 8KM (can be with external antennas) > No matter What Band (prefered 2.4Ghz or 1.2GHz) > Thanks Forward > Ronen - 4Z4ZQ You didn't mention the most important parameter: what your 8 km path looks like. If it is line of sight, you have some options... on the other hand, if the path is blocked by hills or typical urban clutter - good luck! :-) I've run Proxim RangeLAN2 cards (2.4 GHz FH, 1.6 Mbps, $399) over a good 7 km path with antennas of around 20 dBi gain. The link margin (measured using attenuators) indicated that a range of 3-4 times that would be attainable, provided the path remained clear. There are some other possibilities, such as 2.4 GHz WaveLAN (2 Mbps), but unless you can find them discounted, they will be > $500. Barry -- Barry McLarnon VE3JF/VA3TCP | Internet: bm@hydra.carleton.ca Ottawa Amateur Radio Club | AMPRnet: bm@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org Packet Working Group | Web: http://hydra.carleton.ca From rparry@qualcomm.com Thu Nov 07 08:45:05 1996 Received: from houdini.qualcomm.com (houdini.qualcomm.com [129.46.50.92]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id IAA07847 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:45:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from [129.46.159.136] (rparry-mac.qualcomm.com [129.46.159.136]) by houdini.qualcomm.com (8.7.5/1.3/8.7.2/1.12) with ESMTP id GAA25934 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 06:44:29 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rparry@nala.qualcomm.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <01IBJ6HV9DOY8XAMWD@meipws.mis.mei.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 06:44:28 -0800 To: ss@tapr.org From: Richard Parry Subject: Re: [SS:541] Re: Station ID Requirements Talking about the FCC STA ruling, how long do these things take. Is there a best guess as to when the decision will be made? > >IDing could be an issue on the upcoming SS rules when the FCC finally gets >around to them. > --------------- Richard Parry, P.E., W9IF - Ext 8-4972, Office R-307B Globalstar/Gateway Reverse Link Software Engineer Internal Web --> External Web --> --------------- From glenne@hpsadr2.sr.hp.com Thu Nov 07 09:18:56 1996 Received: from hp.com (hp.com [15.255.152.4]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id JAA09458 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:18:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA164569931; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 07:18:52 -0800 Received: from hpsadr2.sr.hp.com (n6gn.sr.hp.com) by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA045889857; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 07:17:38 -0800 Received: by hpsadr2.sr.hp.com (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA081639849; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 07:17:29 -0800 From: Glenn Elmore Message-Id: <199611071517.AA081639849@hpsadr2.sr.hp.com> Subject: Re: [SS:544] Re: Looking for Wireless Lan Card To: ss@tapr.org (Barry McLarnon VE3JF) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 07:17:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199611070428.EAA23157@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org> from "Barry McLarnon VE3JF" at Nov 6, 96 10:27:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ronen wrote: > > I'm looking for a Wireless lan card that will be cheep (less then 500 $) > > and will give me a High speed rate (at least 1.5MB/s) > > with a range of about 8KM (can be with external antennas) > > No matter What Band (prefered 2.4Ghz or 1.2GHz) > > Thanks Forward > > Ronen - 4Z4ZQ Barry replied > You didn't mention the most important parameter: what your 8 km path > looks like. If it is line of sight, you have some options... on the > other hand, if the path is blocked by hills or typical urban clutter - > good luck! :-) > > I've run Proxim RangeLAN2 cards (2.4 GHz FH, 1.6 Mbps, $399) over a good > 7 km path with antennas of around 20 dBi gain. The link margin > (measured using attenuators) indicated that a range of 3-4 times that > would be attainable, provided the path remained clear. > > There are some other possibilities, such as 2.4 GHz WaveLAN (2 Mbps), > but unless you can find them discounted, they will be > $500. > I agree with Barry, everything depends upon the path. But there is yet another possibility, put up an OCAR and *fix* the bad paths. This can be less expensive than any of the other radio hardware and potentially lets almost any of it work, even over considerable distance. See http://www.tapr.org/~n6gn/index.html for OCAR information. 73 Glenn Elmore n6gn amateur IP: glenn@SantaRosa.ampr.org Internet: glenne@sr.hp.com From lfry@wdl.lmco.com Thu Nov 07 10:22:14 1996 Received: from wdl1.wdl.lmco.com (wdl1.wdl.lmco.com [137.249.32.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id KAA12079 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:22:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from wdl.marble.litc.lockheed.com by wdl1.wdl.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/WDL-5.0) id IAA13774; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:21:55 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961107162304.008afafc@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com> X-Sender: lfry@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 11:23:04 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Lee W. Fry" Subject: Re: [SS:541] Re: Station ID Requirements At 06:09 PM 11/6/96 -0600, you wrote: >The one thing that many of agree on is what Phil Karn has proposed. That >is the ID must be within the same power spectrual density as the >transmission. Doesn't matter how it happens, but I think we can agree we >don't need to be swtiching to some narrow-band transmission to ID what we >are doing. > >IDing could be an issue on the upcoming SS rules when the FCC finally gets >around to them. > What did Phil propose where? The only reference I found on TAPR's RM8737 page page in the Comments were in TAPR's 2/26/96: TAPR also differs with the ARRL as to how station identification and documentation should be handled under a revised set of rules. The ARRL in its petition did not ask the Commission to delete sections 97.311(e) and 97.119(b)(5) of the rules, even though it questioned the practicality of the requirements set forth in these sections. TAPR, in contrast, recommends that the Commission delete these subsections of the rules. The interference and harm to the band in which an SS station is operating that would be caused by a requirement to use a CW identification outweighs the benefits that would accrue for monitoring purposes from the use of the ID. As a result, the amateur radio community should be permitted to develop an approach for handling the necessary functions of monitoring and identification. TAPR already is working on possible resolutions to this problem and in the near future will be in a position to make a proposal to the Commission on this matter. And in National Communications System's 2/26/96 (Which TAPR supported on 3/11): The Manager notes that while the League questions the practicality of Section 97.119(b)(5) of the Rules (which contains the CW identification requirement for spread-spectrum communications), it does not propose a modification thereto. (Petition, footnote 7.) The Manager proposes that the requirements be deleted. To the best of the knowledge of the Manager, no currently available Commercial Off the Shelf (COTS) SPREAD-SPECTRUM equipment complies with the rule. Deletion of the requirement will likely lead to increasingly available COTS equipment for amateur use of spread-spectrum technology and concurrent increased usage. From hansen@ait.fredonia.edu Thu Nov 07 12:03:16 1996 Received: from oak.ait.fredonia.edu (oak.ait.fredonia.edu [141.238.20.4]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id MAA16102 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:03:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from [141.238.20.93] by oak.ait.fredonia.edu (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id ma042262 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:01:26 +0000 Message-ID: <3282244F.75AF@ait.fredonia.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 13:02:55 -0500 From: "John A. Hansen" Reply-To: hansen@ait.fredonia.edu Organization: SUNY-Fredonia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:544] Re: Looking for Wireless Lan Card References: <199611070428.EAA23157@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry McLarnon VE3JF wrote: > > I've run Proxim RangeLAN2 cards (2.4 GHz FH, 1.6 Mbps, $399) over a good > 7 km path with antennas of around 20 dBi gain. The link margin > (measured using attenuators) indicated that a range of 3-4 times that > would be attainable, provided the path remained clear. > > There are some other possibilities, such as 2.4 GHz WaveLAN (2 Mbps), > but unless you can find them discounted, they will be > $500. > > Barry > > -- > Barry McLarnon VE3JF/VA3TCP | Internet: bm@hydra.carleton.ca > Ottawa Amateur Radio Club | AMPRnet: bm@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org > Packet Working Group | Web: http://hydra.carleton.ca This is interesting stuff Barry. Are you using one of Proxim's access points or is this a card to card setup? Also, are you buying directly from Proxim or a reseller? Finally. is this $399 Canadian. We've done a fair amount of work with the BreezeCom 3 Mbits/sec stuff but the prices are significantly higher. Thanks, John WA0PTV From dewayne@warpspeed.com Thu Nov 07 19:44:19 1996 Received: from warpspeed.com (odo.warpspeed.com [204.118.182.20]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id TAA08252 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:44:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from [202.131.0.100] by warpspeed.com with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 2.0a8); Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:40:38 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:36:23 -0800 To: ss@tapr.org From: Dewayne Hendricks Subject: Re: [SS:545] Re: Station ID Requirements At 8:49 AM -0600 11/7/96, Richard Parry wrote: > Talking about the FCC STA ruling, how long do these things take. Is >there a best guess as to when the decision will be made? The TAPR SS STA should be issued by close of business on Friday by the FCC. We asked the that special SS ID requirements be waived, so you can put your concerns about complicated ID procedures to rest. -- Dewayne -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dewayne Hendricks, WA8DZP ! CIS: 75210,10 AOL: HENDRICKS Warp Speed Imagineering ! Internet: dewayne@warpspeed.com 43730 Vista Del Mar ! Packet Radio: WA8DZP @ K3MC.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NOAM Fremont, CA 94539-3204 ! WWW: Fax: (510) 770-9854 ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From strohs@halcyon.com Fri Nov 08 17:14:56 1996 Received: from halcyon.com (strohs@chinook.halcyon.com [198.137.231.20]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id RAA04407 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:14:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost by halcyon.com with SMTP id AA25601 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:14:50 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:14:49 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Stroh To: TAPR Spread Spectrum SIG Mailing List Subject: Re: Questions About Spread Spectrum (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Since the list is slow at the moment, I thought I'd forward this from comp.dcom.telecom. Steve -- Steve Stroh N8GNJ strohs@halcyon.com | Amateur Spread Spectrum is Amateur Radio TCP/IP n8gnj@sw.n8gnj.ampr.org | the wave of the present! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 3 Nov 1996 18:12:38 GMT From: dave@oldcolo.com Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom Subject: Re: Questions About Spread Spectrum In , hbaker@netcom.com (Henry Baker) writes: > In article , hbaker@netcom.com (Henry > Baker) wrote: >> Spread spectrum techniques were invented around the time of World War >> II, by the actress Hedy Lamarr, among others, who obtained a U.S. >> patent for a frequency agile torpedo control system. > Altavista search turned up the following information: > U.S. Patent #2,292,387 (1942 ??) > Hedy K. Markey and George Antheil. "Secret Communications System". > "Markey" was Lamarr's real name, and Antheil was a symphony composer, hence > the suggestion to use 88 different frequencies (get it? 88 keys on the > piano...) for 'frequency hopping'. Ah yes. And spread spectrum is used in a whole bunch (50-60 company's products) for no-licence, quite high-speed (2,3Mbps), secure data communications. If you check through our NSF Wireless Field Test Project web site http://wireless.oldcolo.com and go into the Regulatory section, you will find, as the last item, a link to a site which tracks all the companies. It sure works. Our NSF Team has just connected up 8 sites (university, educational, research, mainly) in Ulaanbataar, Mongolia, at 115Kbps, spread spectrum from 1 to 10km across town where the PTT can't provide *any* data lines, (just poor POTS). Linking them to the satellite-sprintlink fed ground station web site http://www.magic.mn so they can traverse the net, and share the very stiff cost of the satellite feed (only 128kbs for about $6,000 a month) A model a lot of Third World countries are beginning to look at. As for Hedy Lamarr - the question mark after 1942 is not necessary. Depending on versions of the story, Hedy was an Austrian actress, her then husband hob nobbed with German military types, and the concept of spreading the signal over many frequencies was discussed. As a solution to their battlefield communications problem - unjammable, uninterceptable, clandestine communications. Even without encryptian. She left Austria before WWII and, in Hollywood, pursued the matter with the musician. Some would claim she was so bright she could have been a physicist. But she was so beautiful, she was quite an actress. So when I build my first *really* advanced spread spectrum radio I'm going to put a sticker-logo on the sides of it, with a sketch of Hedy, in the style of the art on WWII bombers, and the notice 'Hedy Lamarr Inside.' BTW, this posting is coming to you by spread spectrum. You can http://192.160.122.3 and get a little look. Last miles from my office to my home-office is wireless, SS. Not blindingly fast because it is slowed down by the frame relay wired connection to the net from our office - which we expect to replace by a 3Mbps 3 mile direct ss connection to an ISP server, bypassing totally the local US West loop (and its T-1 costs). Dave Hughes dave@oldcolo.com From wd5ivd@tapr.org Sat Nov 09 01:23:53 1996 Received: from [208.134.134.42] ([208.134.134.42]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id BAA04357; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:23:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:28:37 -0600 To: "TAPR-BB list mailing", " Spread Spectrum ", "NETSIG list mailing", " AMSAT BB Mail Group ", "Bill Westradio Pasternak", "Len KB7LPW Winkler", "Hap KC9RP RAIN Holly", "Dave Wolf TCET", "Greg Jones WD5IVD" , "Rich CQ VHF", "Gagne, Jennifer, N1TDY" , "Donald Rotolo"<73227.2644@compuserve.com>, "Stan Horzepa", " Bob Hansen (TAPR) ", "Paul Rinaldo", " TAPR SYS " From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: TAPR Spread Spectrum STA Granted TAPR's Spread Spectrum Special Temporary Authorization is Granted November 8th, 1996 ------------ The FCC has granted a Special Temporary Authorization (STA) to Greg Jones, WD5IVD, and Dewayne Hendricks, WA8DZP, on behalf of TAPR (Tucson Amateur Packet Radio, Corp), regarding spread spectrum communications. On April 10th, 1996, TAPR requested a waiver of the rules and regulations governing Amateur Radio spread spectrum communications in order to conduct an experimental program to test spread spectrum emissions over amateur radio facilities on different bands. Full details on the TAPR spread spectrum STA are available on its web page under the Spread Spectrum area. A Special Temporary Authorization (STA) is the authority granted to a permittee or licensee to permit the operation of a broadcast facility for a limited period at a specified variance from the terms of the station authorization or requirements of the FCC rules applicable to the particular class of station. TAPR recently released a position statement on Spread Spectrum Technology Development which in part states, "TAPR believes that the technical facts support our conviction that conventional and spread spectrum systems can coexist without detriment to conventional systems on all frequencies from MF to EHF. To this end, TAPR will begin to research spread spectrum systems that will develop technology for future deployment." () TAPR plans to continue its leading role in developing standards and technology for spread spectrum communications for the amateur radio community through discussion groups, cooperative efforts and experimental programs such as now being permitted by the recently granted STA. In particular, due to the rapid development of communications hardware and software, TAPR believes that the use of hybrid spread spectrum emissions, as well as spreading codes not envisioned by Section 97.311(d) of the Rules can be employed without causing harmful interference to other amateur radio operators. TAPR was founded in 1982 as an international organization with interests in the areas of packet and digital communications. Today, TAPR continues as a membership supported nonprofit amateur radio research and development organization, and currently has more than 2,000 members worldwide. TAPR continues to develop kits for the amateur radio community and is working actively on publications and communications standards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tucson Amateur Packet Radio 8987-309 E Tanque Verde Rd #337 * Tucson, Az * 85749-9399 * 817-383-0000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- e-mail: TAPR@TAPR.ORG ftp: ftp.tapr.org web: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- From bm@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org Sun Nov 10 22:49:48 1996 Received: from lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org (lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org [44.135.96.100]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id WAA23127 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 22:49:44 -0600 (CST) Received: (from bm@localhost) by lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA28274 for ss@tapr.org; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 04:51:04 GMT From: Barry McLarnon VE3JF Message-Id: <199611110451.EAA28274@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org> Subject: Re: [SS:548] Re: Looking for Wireless Lan Card To: ss@tapr.org Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 04:51:04 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <3282244F.75AF@ait.fredonia.edu> from "John A. Hansen" at Nov 7, 96 12:06:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text > This is interesting stuff Barry. Are you using one of Proxim's access > points or is this a card to card setup? Also, are you buying directly > from Proxim or a reseller? Finally. is this $399 Canadian. We've > done a fair amount of work with the BreezeCom 3 Mbits/sec stuff but > the prices are significantly higher. This was using the ISA cards... I also have a PCMCIA version for portable use. The cards were purchased direct from Proxim - $399 US for the ISA card, and $449 for the PCMCIA. The PCs were running Win95 or JNOS (with packet driver) - no AX.25. At one time they had these prices posted on their web site, but they seem to have removed the pricing info, so I'm not sure what the current prices are. Dave Koberstein N9DK works at Proxim and has been very helpful... I think he also reads this list, so maybe he'll chip in with some comments. Barry -- Barry McLarnon VE3JF/VA3TCP | Internet: bm@hydra.carleton.ca Ottawa Amateur Radio Club | AMPRnet: bm@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org Packet Working Group | Web: http://hydra.carleton.ca From davek@komacke.com Mon Nov 11 14:08:38 1996 Received: from sydney.komacke.com (sjx-ca52-03.ix.netcom.com [206.214.103.195]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id OAA02666 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:08:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from dakota.kobie.komacke.com (mg136-118.ricochet.net [204.179.136.118]) by sydney.komacke.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06099 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:08:25 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961111120703.006a9fdc@sydney.komacke.com> X-Sender: davepost@sydney.komacke.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:07:32 -0800 To: ss@tapr.org From: Dave Koberstein Subject: Re: [SS:552] Re: Looking for Wireless Lan Card Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just subscribed and this is the first message I have received. Since I didn't get the previous messages, I'm not sure if my comments are out of context. I believe the price holds for the first 2 copies of any card. It's a buy-in offer to get people started and evaluating. At the moment, we'll only sell the ham version to hams in Canada that provide a copy of their license. The reason is we have to configure the card to Canadian ham freqs instead of Canadian ISM freqs. We are concerned about putting our ISM type acceptance at risk with the authorities if they think we are distributing non-ISM products to general users. The US ham regs aren't loose enough yet to sell to US hams (ID, hop patterns). Anyway, I'll provide an email address to this list of the person to contact at Proxim to get some cards. Or I'll reply to you personally. I don't want to be perceived and try to conduct business on the list. ;-) Davek At 11:07 PM 11/10/96 -0600, you wrote: >> This is interesting stuff Barry. Are you using one of Proxim's access >> points or is this a card to card setup? Also, are you buying directly >> from Proxim or a reseller? Finally. is this $399 Canadian. We've >> done a fair amount of work with the BreezeCom 3 Mbits/sec stuff but >> the prices are significantly higher. > >This was using the ISA cards... I also have a PCMCIA version for >portable use. The cards were purchased direct from Proxim - $399 US for >the ISA card, and $449 for the PCMCIA. The PCs were running Win95 or >JNOS (with packet driver) - no AX.25. At one time they had these prices >posted on their web site, but they seem to have removed the pricing >info, so I'm not sure what the current prices are. Dave Koberstein N9DK >works at Proxim and has been very helpful... I think he also reads this >list, so maybe he'll chip in with some comments. ____________________________________________________________ Dave Koberstein work: davek@proxim.com / http://www.proxim.com keep in touch: davek@komacke.com / http://www.komacke.com ham internet: n9dk@n9dk.ampr.org [44.4.12.172] (ax.25/PBBS: n9dk@w6yx.#nocal.ca.usa.noam) From rparry@qualcomm.com Tue Nov 12 14:22:57 1996 Received: from strange.qualcomm.com (strange.qualcomm.com [129.46.52.17]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id OAA14672 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:22:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from [129.46.159.136] (rparry-mac.qualcomm.com [129.46.159.136]) by strange.qualcomm.com (8.7.5/1.3/8.7.2/1.12) with ESMTP id MAA20565 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:22:22 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rparry@nala.qualcomm.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:22:19 -0800 To: ss@tapr.org From: Richard Parry Subject: Spread Spectrum STA Granted, Now what? Congratulations to the "movers and shackers" of the SS STA and those prepared to move Amateur Radio to the next generation (Spread Spectrum)!!! I suppose the granting of the STA means that we can all go off and start doing our own thing. But I wanted to join a group (I think). SS is not a weekend project, so I wonder how I can get involved in a small group to contribute or at least hear about the cutting edge? This mailing is start I suppose but it seems that a standard needs to be developed, anyone thought about it? I guess I am confused if people are going to go out and start at the "chip" level? I think the answer is yes. What is TAPR doing? Comments, suggestions? --------------- Richard Parry, P.E., W9IF - Ext 8-4972, Office R-307B Globalstar/Gateway Reverse Link Software Engineer Internal Web --> External Web --> --------------- From lfry@wdl.lmco.com Tue Nov 26 15:53:46 1996 Received: from wdl1.wdl.lmco.com (wdl1.wdl.lmco.com [137.249.32.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id PAA28830 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:53:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from wdl.marble.litc.lockheed.com by wdl1.wdl.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/WDL-5.0) id NAA03636; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 13:53:27 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961126215508.008ce3b4@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com> X-Sender: lfry@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:55:08 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Lee W. Fry" Subject: Where are the experimenters? In the two weeks since the TAPR STA was granted, there has barely been a peep out of this list. The current participating station list has about 25 names on it and only a hand full have even posted here before: Greg, Dewayne, Steve B. and Steve S. and Jeff. Where are the others and what are they doing? Questions: I suspect the FW and WL code on the list indicates FreeWave and WaveLan based projects. True? Is there a commercial 5 watt amp that the FW crowd is looking at? Can anybody with 1 watt systems report sucesses with > 6dbi (non-stock) antennas? What antennas? Thanks - Lee (AA0JP In the middle of Georgia!) See Part 15 SS Device Compendium at http://www.mindspring.com/~lfry/part15.htm Lee W. Fry lfry@wdl.lmco.com From rparry@qualcomm.com Tue Nov 26 16:58:45 1996 Received: from adept.qualcomm.com (adept.qualcomm.com [129.46.50.81]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id QAA02007 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:58:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from [129.46.159.136] (rparry-mac.qualcomm.com [129.46.159.136]) by adept.qualcomm.com (8.8.3/1.4/8.7.2/1.12) with ESMTP id OAA19754 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:58:13 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: rparry@nala.qualcomm.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961126215508.008ce3b4@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:58:09 -0800 To: ss@tapr.org From: Richard Parry Subject: Re: [SS:555] Where are the experimenters? I made similar comment a few weeks ago. I believe the answer is "watch the TAPR Web Page" for the latest updates and how you can participate. >In the two weeks since the TAPR STA was granted, there has barely been a >peep out of this list. The current participating station list has about 25 >names on it and only a hand full have even posted here before: Greg, >Dewayne, Steve B. and Steve S. and Jeff. Where are the others and what are >they doing? > >Questions: > >I suspect the FW and WL code on the list indicates FreeWave and WaveLan >based projects. True? > >Is there a commercial 5 watt amp that the FW crowd is looking at? > >Can anybody with 1 watt systems report sucesses with > 6dbi (non-stock) >antennas? What antennas? > >Thanks - Lee (AA0JP In the middle of Georgia!) >See Part 15 SS Device Compendium at http://www.mindspring.com/~lfry/part15.htm >Lee W. Fry >lfry@wdl.lmco.com --------------- Richard Parry, P.E., W9IF - Ext 8-4972, Office R-307B Globalstar/Gateway Reverse Link Internal Web --> External Web --> --------------- From wd5ivd@tapr.org Tue Nov 26 18:57:17 1996 Received: from [128.83.113.90] (slip-g-3.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.253.67]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id SAA07198 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:57:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <2.2.32.19961126215508.008ce3b4@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:51:52 -0600 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: Re: [SS:556] Re: Where are the experimenters? Hi everyone. Been just to darn busy to really do anything other than try to get things rolling and organized -- not to count all the stuff for school and other projects that are happening at this end. When it rains it pours :-) We started the process for the STA last April and we had about 4 days notice that the STA was going to be signed off on -- so, the first group were the people that had already been involved at the regional level with TAPR which seemed to be the quickest method to get the first people signed on. We had to submit a list and everyone had to be contacted and talked with. I didn't figure making an announcement on the list here or elsewhere would have been possible to handle in the short time we had to accomplish the paper work and hand it off to our lawyers in DC. Just to let everyone know what happened -- two events happened in the last month that made the STA appear so rapidly. First, TAPR and our law firm in DC meet with the FCC regarding the STA and once it was moved up a rung or two we had positive momentum and an agreement that the STA was possible and should be issued. Just costs money for these personal meetings with lawyers attending. The second was that at the last ARRL BoD meeting, the league board voted that a letter be sent to the FCC which reflected positively on the STA we had been working towards. Dewayne and myself were very happy that the ARRL BoD took the time to take this action. Between moving the issue to a higher level at the FCC and the positive letter from the ARRL, the STA was on the go. Now that we have the first group sem-organized and off the ground, the next step was to get the stations page information collected and into our database and I am now working on getting the Web application on-line and looked over before making that available. Dewayne and myself see three levels of participation in the STA. 1. You have an experimental proposal you want to make to test something you are designing or have designed. We have two or three submitted in the first batch now based in Harris and the Loral stuff pending a little more work. 2. You have Existing Part 15 equipment that would like to operate under Part 97 for testing purposes. This is like the WaveLan stuff John Ackermann is doing in Ohio and I believe we will see others wanting to use this opportunity to operate under Part 97 and report on their activities. 3. You don't have anything available in 1 or 2 above, but you still want to participate -- so you can get one of the 900Mhz radios TAPR is going to be making available for testing and experimenting with under the STA. As many might have guessed -- they are Freewave. We are working a deal currently with Freewave and expect to be able to make a 1 watt, 902-928Mhz, hopper available with the RS-232 interface for around $399 with a metal case and supply. Probably announce this officially sometime in January after the beta-purchase is completed. In this way, we can allow anyone who is a member of TAPR to be involved in some level of the STA. As soon as the STA application is available I will post something here and on tapr-bb. I would be really interested in hearing about any potential experimental stuff not involved existing equipment. This type of work has the potential for the most impact under the STA. One of the areas that the ARRL Future Systems Committee expressed interest in was to see if we can locate people interested in doing stuff on the 219/220 bands, since that band could provide some interesting utilization. We have access to freqs from 50Mhz and up, so if you are an experimenter this is your chance to take advantage of the possibility of testing stuff on 2 meter and 6 meters as well as 220. The clock is ticking. We should be able to add people to the STA starting a little before Xmas. Still have to touch bases with Dewayne and our law firm on the method and time for submitting changes on the STA. Back to work. I hope others will begin to dicuss and hopefully think about ways to get exsiting SS chip sets on various bands in the short period of time we now have. Cheers - Greg, WD5IVD >I made similar comment a few weeks ago. I believe the answer is "watch the >TAPR Web Page" for the latest updates and how you can participate. > > >>In the two weeks since the TAPR STA was granted, there has barely been a >>peep out of this list. The current participating station list has about 25 >>names on it and only a hand full have even posted here before: Greg, >>Dewayne, Steve B. and Steve S. and Jeff. Where are the others and what are >>they doing? >> >>Questions: >> >>I suspect the FW and WL code on the list indicates FreeWave and WaveLan >>based projects. True? >> >>Is there a commercial 5 watt amp that the FW crowd is looking at? >> >>Can anybody with 1 watt systems report sucesses with > 6dbi (non-stock) >>antennas? What antennas? >> >>Thanks - Lee (AA0JP In the middle of Georgia!) >>See Part 15 SS Device Compendium at >>http://www.mindspring.com/~lfry/part15.htm >>Lee W. Fry >>lfry@wdl.lmco.com > > >--------------- >Richard Parry, P.E., W9IF - Ext 8-4972, Office R-307B >Globalstar/Gateway Reverse Link >Internal Web --> >External Web --> >--------------- ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- From lylej@azstarnet.com Tue Nov 26 20:14:36 1996 Received: from mailhost.azstarnet.com (mailhost.azstarnet.com [169.197.1.8]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id UAA11082 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:14:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from tomswift2 (usr2ip49.azstarnet.com [169.197.3.49]) by mailhost.azstarnet.com (8.8.3-p/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA01343 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:11:38 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:11:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961126191317.003792a0@pop.azstarnet.com> X-Sender: lylej@pop.azstarnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ss@tapr.org From: Lyle Johnson Subject: Re: [SS:555] Where are the experimenters? Lee, At work I have just received the Harris 2.4 GHz "PRIMS" chipset eval module. I hope to dig into this in the next several weeks It could form the basis of a fast, CHEAP S-band SS rig... Cheers, Lyle At 03:58 PM 11/26/96 -0600, you wrote: >In the two weeks since the TAPR STA was granted, there has barely been a >peep out of this list. The current participating station list has about 25 >names on it and only a hand full have even posted here before: Greg, >Dewayne, Steve B. and Steve S. and Jeff. Where are the others and what are >they doing? > >Questions: > >I suspect the FW and WL code on the list indicates FreeWave and WaveLan >based projects. True? > >Is there a commercial 5 watt amp that the FW crowd is looking at? > >Can anybody with 1 watt systems report sucesses with > 6dbi (non-stock) >antennas? What antennas? > >Thanks - Lee (AA0JP In the middle of Georgia!) >See Part 15 SS Device Compendium at http://www.mindspring.com/~lfry/part15.htm >Lee W. Fry >lfry@wdl.lmco.com > > From fperkins@onramp.net Tue Nov 26 21:01:26 1996 Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id VAA13555 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:01:25 -0600 (CST) Received: from 199.184.212.202 (stockyard39.onramp.net [199.184.212.202]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA01510 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:01:22 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:01:22 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611270301.VAA01510@mailhost.onramp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: fperkins@onramp.net Subject: Re: [SS:557] Re: Where are the experimenters? To: ss@tapr.org In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Hi Greg, Is there a way to do a mass-STA sign-up for DSP-93 users :-) 73 Frank WWWWWWWWWWWWWWBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB555555555555555IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPPMMMMMMMM From wd5ivd@tapr.org Tue Nov 26 23:23:42 1996 Received: from [128.83.113.90] (slip-d-12.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.113.124]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id XAA19910 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:23:40 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611270301.VAA01510@mailhost.onramp.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:07:40 -0600 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: Re: [SS:559] Re: Where are the experimenters? Hi Frank. When the application on the web site is available you can get as many DSP-93 users signed up as you like -- who meet the requirements. Maybe you can talk a little bit about the SS code you have running on the DSP-93. Cheers - Greg >Hi Greg, > >Is there a way to do a mass-STA sign-up for DSP-93 users :-) > > >73 Frank >WWWWWWWWWWWWWWBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB555555555555555IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPPMMMMMMM >M ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- From lfry@wdl.lmco.com Wed Nov 27 09:08:39 1996 Received: from wdl1.wdl.lmco.com (wdl1.wdl.lmco.com [137.249.32.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id JAA17407 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:08:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from wdl.marble.litc.lockheed.com by wdl1.wdl.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/WDL-5.0) id HAA02394; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:08:24 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961127151001.008d89f4@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com> X-Sender: lfry@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:10:01 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Lee W. Fry" Subject: Re: Where are the experimenters? Many thanks to Greg for the detailed response in [SS:557] Also thanks to all for not flaming me for the dumb question about the amp. Had I looked at the FreeWave entry on my web site, I would have seen that FreeWave also makes a mast mounted 5 watt bilateral amp. I am worried about the timing of the open and close of any group buys and the availability of info about what is in the buy. What I am going to have to do here in Warner Robins, GA is deliver a serious pitch to the local club at a monthly meet to see if I can drum up interest from one or more other parties. I think the first problem is going to be money timing. Budgeting $400 for a card, and possibly more for a high gain antenna, or an amp (any idea how much they will be?) might be a timing problem for some who might like to commit. More lead time, or an open ended buy period is better. Geography (its pretty flat around here)and net topology will also be a major consideration. Technology selection will be driven by the locations of people interested in participating. The 115 Kbps FreeWave link offers a different set of possibilities than the 2Mbps WaveLans and similar devices by trading data bandwidth for system gain. I am also not sure what people want to do around here either. I have only recently moved here and don't know a lot about what is going on. On packet, it looks like there is a 9600 SEDAN link into the area, but no 56Kbps GRAPES link in the area. I have no idea about ATV or SSTV. My own interest is internet style TCP/IP out of my linux box. So anyway, I guess I'll start working up a set of Powerpoint slides and make them available for comment here. Lee W. Fry AA0JP lfry@mindspring.com See my Part 15 Spread Spectrum Device Compendium at: http://www.mindspring.com/~lfry/part15.htm From fperkins@onramp.net Wed Nov 27 10:49:14 1996 Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id KAA21656 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:49:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from 199.184.212.186 (stockyard23.onramp.net [199.184.212.186]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA15019 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:49:12 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:49:12 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611271649.KAA15019@mailhost.onramp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: fperkins@onramp.net Subject: Re: [SS:560] Re: Where are the experimenters? To: ss@tapr.org In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 Hi Greg and the SS gang. Here is a DSSS demo in QuickBasic, source and DOS executable (run full screen). Supersimple matched filter correlator; wrote code in 15 minutes. Play with it if you want ... code is AS IS ... NO WARRANTY!! Hit the q key or the enter key to exit. Top trace is 31 chip gold code Middle trace is correlator output. Bottom trace is recovered data. We could maybe just send this code into the FCC for STA approval?? :-) 73 Frank WWWWWWWWWWBBBBBBBBBBB5555555555IIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPPPPMMMMMMMMMMMM PS Greg - will call you this afternoon. From wd5ivd@tapr.org Wed Nov 27 11:37:23 1996 Received: from [128.83.113.124] (slip-e-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.113.129]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id LAA24264 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:37:13 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961127151001.008d89f4@wdl1.wdl.lmco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:32:02 -0600 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: Re: [SS:561] Re: Where are the experimenters? >Many thanks to Greg for the detailed response in [SS:557] > >I am worried about the timing of the open and close of any group buys and >the availability of info about what is in the buy. What I am going to have >to do here in Warner Robins, GA is deliver a serious pitch to the local club >at a monthly meet to see if I can drum up interest from one or more other >parties. My guess right now is that we will be doing group buys at the end of every month once we start until such time as that doesn't make sense. We have been promised 3 week turn on production for the units we are getting. Then we have about a 2-3 week turn on the enclosures we are going to be providing. Comes out all about the same....take orders then plan on a 5 weeks from the deadline for delivery after that. >I think the first problem is going to be money timing. Budgeting $400 for a >card, and possibly more for a high gain antenna, or an amp (any idea how >much they will be?) might be a timing problem for some who might like to >commit. More lead time, or an open ended buy period is better. Antennas are going to cost around $100 for a horz beam. LRM400 or better starts at .56 a foot. We do have someone looking at maybe getting into the building of antennas for just this project to help lower the overall cost. Since a horz omni cost some money. >My own interest is internet style TCP/IP out of my linux box. That is what I am doing for the testing here. Everything I plan to use over the Freewave boxes for the next bit is based on SLIP in and out at 115K. Think of the possibility for some mobiling IP stuff with decent coverage if the sites are available. >So anyway, I guess I'll start working up a set of Powerpoint slides and >make them available for comment here. I am sure that would be very handy. Jeff King, in Mich, can probably help with this as well. I can envision that we might have several hundred people using the STA before it is over doing all sorts of interesting technology. Cheers -- Greg, WD5IVD ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- From fperkins@onramp.net Wed Nov 27 12:48:53 1996 Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id MAA27821 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:48:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from 199.184.212.108 (turnpike09.onramp.net [199.184.212.108]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA16969 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:48:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:48:31 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611271848.MAA16969@mailhost.onramp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=XXCGW-986578386XX Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary From: fperkins@onramp.net Subject: Re: [SS:562] DSSS Demo To: ss@tapr.org X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.17 > THIS IS A MESSAGE IN 'MIME' FORMAT. Your mail reader does not support MIME. > Please read the first section, which is plain text, and ignore the rest. > This message was composed with SPRY Mail. Contact SPRY at 1-800-777-9638. --XXCGW-986578386XX Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent to the TAPR group... <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> From: fperkins@onramp.net Subject: Re: [SS:562] DSSS Demo To: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Hi again Greg and the SS gang, Well, I was rushing out the door to meet my wife for lunch and I overlooked attaching the demo code zip file ... "Here is a DSSS demo in QuickBasic - source and executable. Run it full screen if you are doing windows. Supersimple direct-sequence technique using a matched filter type correlator. Top trace is a 31 chip gold code multiplied by a 101010... data sequence. Middle trace is the correlator output. 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AAAIAMBUeyGtaOXTI2kAAISRAAAIAAAAAAAAAAAAIAAAAFoDAABTUzIyLkVYRVBLBQYAAAAAAgAC AGwAAACjbAAAAAA= --XXCGW-986578386XX-- From strohs@halcyon.com Wed Nov 27 13:42:42 1996 Received: from mail1.halcyon.com (mail1.halcyon.com [206.63.63.40]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id NAA29899 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:42:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from chinook.halcyon.com by mail1.halcyon.com (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/10Nov96-0444PM) id AA03117; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:41:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:42:38 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Stroh To: TAPR Spread Spectrum SIG Mailing List Cc: Dewayne Hendricks WA8DZP Subject: Mongolian SS system featured on MSNBC Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Check out http://www.msnbc.com/news/43414.asp for a story about the SS-based Internet system that was recently installed in Mongolia. Take a bow, Dewayne! Steve N8GNJ -- Steve Stroh Woodinville, Washington, USA strohs@halcyon.com From fperkins@onramp.net Wed Nov 27 13:48:28 1996 Received: from [128.83.113.80] (slip-b-15.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.113.95]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id NAA00300 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:48:01 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: wd5ivd@tapr.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1362998078==_============" Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:43:32 -0600 To: " Spread Spectrum " From: fperkins@onramp.net (by way of Greg Jones, WD5IVD) Subject: Re: [SS:562] DSSS Demo --============_-1362998078==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi again Greg and the SS gang, Well, I was rushing out the door to meet my wife for lunch and I overlooked attaching the demo code zip file ... "Here is a DSSS demo in QuickBasic - source and executable. Run it full screen if you are doing windows. Supersimple direct-sequence technique using a matched filter type correlator. Top trace is a 31 chip gold code multiplied by a 101010... data sequence. Middle trace is the correlator output. 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Hi Greg, and others, Is there experience with the Freewave boxes, that horizontal polarisation is prefered? What i see in the Freewave literature is just a little vertical stub antenna on one of the units, and mention of other antennas in the price list, without any comment as to polarisation. There are a variety of ways to make omni horizontal antennas. If u hook up a QF helix, the wrong way, that s what u get. Untwisted, its two full wave loops, fed parallel and 90 degree seperated in azimuth. The usual way to get high gain horizontal omni antenna is the slot array, cut into the side of a piece of waveguide. This is the UHF TV broadcast antenna, thats typical. At 915 Mhz, this would be practical, altho more expensive than a vertical colinear. Yagi s do not provide good reliability at these frequencies and above. They not only dephase in weather, but detune. This double whamy of loss of gain, and loss of power radiated, will usually zap a path completely. A Corner Reflector is better. It does not loose gain in weather, only detunes a small amount. Corner Reflectors are big and bulky , however, and if the reflector is not welded, it will be prone to the "scratchies". Commercial Wireless organisations have been using Microstrip antennas for some years now. Take a look at the local cell site, and you will probably see a 1 to 2 inch thick panel antenna up there. The reasons for this are the reliability in weather, and lesser amount of interaction such antennas have with each other. Additionally, array antennas built up from Microstrip Patches have fewer problems with mutual impedance (element coupling). I ve some experience in engineering UHF Microstrip antennas, and plan on do- ing a 915 Mhz antenna. This message is being sent over a 440 panel antenna. In my situation the multipath, which would manifest itself as a delay spread problem with the Freewave radios, due to operating out of building led me to the Microstrip antenna solution. The high F/B ration of the antenna helps dramatically with the multipath. Recently, the http://www.baltzer.nl/wireless page was referenced in the news group. In the www.baltzer.nl/wireless/delayspr. htm section of that page, its reported that indoor antennas see much greater delay spreads, on the order of 10 times over that of suburban areas. 73, Don. Mailbox : WB9MJN @ N9HSI.IL.USA.NA AMPRNet : wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org[44.72.98.19] Internet: wb9mjn%wb9mjn.ampr.org@uugate.aim.utah.edu From lfry@mindspring.com Thu Nov 28 07:52:33 1996 Received: from mule1.mindspring.com (mule1.mindspring.com [204.180.128.167]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id HAA17574 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 07:52:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from glory (user-168-121-136-107.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.136.107]) by mule1.mindspring.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA107282 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:52:29 GMT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961128135236.00312860@mindspring.com> X-Sender: lfry@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:52:36 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Lee W. Fry" Subject: Re: [SS:567] Antennas... At 05:53 PM 11/27/96 -0600, Don wrote: (snip) >Recently, the http://www.baltzer.nl/wireless page was referenced in the news >group. (snip) The page is now http://www.baltzer.nl/wirelesscd/cd.html and the page of interest is http://www.baltzer.nl/wirelesscd/delayspr.htm. Lee W. Fry AA0JP lfry@mindspring.com See my Part 15 Spread Spectrum Device Compendium at: http://www.mindspring.com/~lfry/part15.htm From wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org Thu Nov 28 10:38:00 1996 Received: from wb9mjn.ampr.org (wb9mjn.ampr.org [44.72.98.19]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id KAA23714 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:37:40 -0600 (CST) From: wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 10:36:40 UTC Message-Id: <11427@wb9mjn.ampr.org> To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:568] Re: Antennas... In-Reply-To: your message of Thu Nov 28 07:57:44 1996 <2.2.32.19961128135236.00312860@mindspring.com> Hi Lee, Thanks for the correction! 73, Don. Mailbox : WB9MJN @ N9HSI.IL.USA.NA AMPRNet : wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org[44.72.98.19] Internet: wb9mjn%wb9mjn.ampr.org@uugate.aim.utah.edu From bad@uhf.wireless.net Thu Nov 28 12:18:50 1996 Received: from uhf.wdc.net (uhf.wdc.net [198.147.74.44]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id MAA27346 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:18:47 -0600 (CST) Received: (from bad@localhost) by uhf.wdc.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) id NAA13627; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:25:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 13:25:27 -0500 (EST) From: Bernie Doehner To: ss@tapr.org Subject: while on the subject of antennas - double rhombic. In-Reply-To: <11427@wb9mjn.ampr.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Guys: It was pointed out to me that the winner of this year's central states VHF conference entered with a 1296 double rhombic (with 17.3 dbi gain). Even a little bit larger, this double rhombic doesn't look as huge (and much more visualy pleasing) as the 33 element loop yagi that I plan to install at the condo. Do any of you know where he got the construction plans from? Bernie From bad@uhf.wireless.net Thu Nov 28 15:23:52 1996 Received: from uhf.wdc.net (uhf.wdc.net [198.147.74.44]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id PAA05030 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 15:23:48 -0600 (CST) Received: (from bad@localhost) by uhf.wdc.net (8.8.2/8.6.12) id QAA14388; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:30:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:30:31 -0500 (EST) From: Bernie Doehner To: ss@tapr.org Subject: lets try again... Re: Antennas and 1296 double rhombic. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi again: Many apologies for the bad grammar in my last email. Lets try again: It was pointed out to me that the winner of this year's central states VHF conference won with a 1296 MHz. double rhombic (with 17.3 dbi gain). I would like to build a scaled up version of this double rhombic for 900 MHz, since it has roughly the gain of my 33 element loop yagi, but with much lower visual impact (I live in a condo and have to be careful with the amount of aluminum I put up). Does anyone know where Daylon Johnson (the winner) got the design from? Is it in the VHF Compendium? Before any wise guys out there tell me to just scale an HF rhombic to 900 MHz, let me emphasize that I am looking for the exact apex angle, and other physical dimensions of this antenna, so that I can reproduce it (but scaled up for 900 MHz.). I believe that he did some optimization to get it to work so well at 1296 and I don't want to have to repeat these optimizations if they are available somewhere. Best Regards and Happy Thanksgiving! Bernie nu1s From lfry@mindspring.com Thu Nov 28 16:38:39 1996 Received: from mule0.mindspring.com (mule0.mindspring.com [204.180.128.166]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id QAA08131 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:38:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from glory (user-168-121-136-107.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.136.107]) by mule0.mindspring.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA63552 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 22:38:27 GMT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961128223839.00300ed4@mindspring.com> X-Sender: lfry@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 17:38:39 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Lee W. Fry" Subject: Rhombic FWIW,there is a picture of Johnson and his dual rhombic on page 90 of this month's (December) QST. Lee W. Fry AA0JP lfry@mindspring.com See my Part 15 Spread Spectrum Device Compendium at: http://www.mindspring.com/~lfry/part15.htm From wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org Fri Nov 29 09:27:00 1996 Received: from wb9mjn.ampr.org (wb9mjn.ampr.org [44.72.98.19]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id JAA18844 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 09:26:13 -0600 (CST) From: wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org Date: Fri, 29 Nov 96 09:13:27 UTC Message-Id: <11433@wb9mjn.ampr.org> To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:572] Rhombic In-Reply-To: your message of Thu Nov 28 16:40:21 1996 <2.2.32.19961128223839.00300ed4@mindspring.com> Hi Bernie and Lee, Rhombics do have large side lobes. Each wire in the rhombic has 4 lobes. In the rhombic design, the attempt is to null, add and absorb currents causing the various lobes. This can be tricky, and altho good gain can be had, its not a very good antenna for multipath rejection. Its also a quite large antenna, and that 3 dimensional bulk needs to be out there cantelevered in free space. A 5 lamba per wire Rhombic, is going to need a 10 lambda, by 5 lambda space. Multiply that by two for a dual Rhom- bic. A 10 lambda on 915 Mhz is 11 feet, and the antenna requires an cube of this dimension. Oops, half a cube of this dimension.  This seems like a better antenna for a farm silo instatllation, on a prarie, than a condo/apartment antenna in a multipath enviorment of an urban space, on 900 Mhz. Altho, a large panel of such antennas on 10 Ghz is an intriguing idea. And it might be a good design for DSS TVRO. 73, Don. Mailbox : WB9MJN @ N9HSI.IL.USA.NA AMPRNet : wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org[44.72.98.19] Internet: wb9mjn%wb9mjn.ampr.org@uugate.aim.utah.edu From cdk1@sprynet.com Fri Nov 29 12:12:31 1996 Received: from m3.sprynet.com (m3.sprynet.com [165.121.2.55]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id MAA25905 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 12:12:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from ad46-182.compuserve.com (ad46-182.compuserve.com [199.174.164.182]) by m3.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA08357 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 10:10:59 -0800 Received: by ad46-182.compuserve.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BBDDD7.436ACB00@ad46-182.compuserve.com>; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 09:25:30 -0800 Message-ID: <01BBDDD7.436ACB00@ad46-182.compuserve.com> From: Derrick Kim To: "'ss@tapr.org'" Subject: unsubscribe Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 09:24:57 -0800 Return-Receipt-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please take me off the SS mailing list. Thanks. Derrick From lfry@mindspring.com Sat Nov 30 06:32:00 1996 Received: from mule1.mindspring.com (mule1.mindspring.com [204.180.128.167]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id GAA09534 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 06:31:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from glory (user-168-121-136-107.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.136.107]) by mule1.mindspring.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22194 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 12:31:55 GMT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961130123248.0032a9ec@mindspring.com> X-Sender: lfry@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 07:32:48 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Lee W. Fry" Subject: SS below 70cm? The announcement of the approval of the TAPR STA initiated a heated discussion on the VHF reflector about the possible consequnces on EME and weak signal work. The discussion has largely died down, except for some on-going discussion Greg is having about a request for participing stations to post daily operating summaries. I think all involved in the STA want to go about it in such a way as to enable any impact to be evaluated. However, to evaluate impact on 2 meter EME work, or 6 meter, there has to be somebody operating SS in those bands. All I see in the initial list of stations in the STA is 900 MHz. I'm worried that based on the lack of off-the-shelf equipment that there won't be enough stations involved on anything but 900Mhz and 2.4 Ghz to determine very much. However, I'm wondering if SS is already there and they don't know it. The Army and Marine Corps have thousands of SINCGARS radios which operate from 30MHz to 88MHz and as near as I can tell have some sort of frequency diversity mode (SS? - Maybe someone here knows what kind?). We know the military sometimes uses their ability to operate in the 6m ham bands - last summer war games were heard by 6m operators here in the CONUS. So how much are they doing that we don't hear? Another example is the AN/PRC-117 which has FHSS on 30 - 90, 116 - 174, and 225 - 420 MHz. Don't know how many of those are around, but probably a lot more than there will be stations under this STA. On 900 there has been a rise in the "noise floor". 900 is where the bulk of commercial exploitation is going on, probably mostly wireless phones, only some of which are SS. At least there is enough happening there that operators can quantify it as a "n" db increase in the noise floor in their area. I guess my real question is how big an amateur community will be required to add anything measurable to either the military or the commercial "noise floor" on any band? I doubt we will add much to what the military is doing on bands where there is no commercial activity and any thing we would add will certainly be swamped out on bands where there is. Lee W. Fry AA0JP lfry@mindspring.com See my Part 15 Spread Spectrum Device Compendium at: http://www.mindspring.com/~lfry/part15.htm From Sjolin@aol.com Sat Nov 30 08:09:56 1996 Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com (emout06.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.97]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id IAA12827 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 08:09:55 -0600 (CST) From: Sjolin@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA06223 for ss@tapr.org; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 09:09:25 -0500 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 09:09:25 -0500 Message-ID: <961130090924_772886871@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:575] SS below 70cm? In a message dated 96-11-30 08:01:55 EST, you write: << I think all involved in the STA want to go about it in such a way as to enable any impact to be evaluated. However, to evaluate impact on 2 meter EME work, or 6 meter, there has to be somebody operating SS in those bands. All I see in the initial list of stations in the STA is 900 MHz. I'm worried that based on the lack of off-the-shelf equipment that there won't be enough stations involved on anything but 900Mhz and 2.4 Ghz to determine very much. >> I thought a major purpose of STA was to evaluate impact on other users of bands where SS is not currently allowed. I hope TAPR doesn't plan on using results from 900 mhz to infer what might be the impact on two meter weak signal operations? << I guess my real question is how big an amateur community will be required to add anything measurable to either the military or the commercial "noise floor" on any band? I doubt we will add much to what the military is doing on bands where there is no commercial activity and any thing we would add will certainly be swamped out on bands where there is. >> Not all of us live near a military base, particularly one where widespread usage of VHF/UHF SS for normal military traffic. Is there commercial spread spectrum currently in/close to the two meter and 70 cm bands? 73 de Dave, N0IT From strohs@halcyon.com Sat Nov 30 09:00:01 1996 Received: from mail1.halcyon.com (mail1.halcyon.com [206.63.63.40]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id JAA14848 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 09:00:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from coho.halcyon.com by mail1.halcyon.com (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/10Nov96-0444PM) id AA17664; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 06:59:04 -0800 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 06:59:58 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Stroh To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:575] SS below 70cm? In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961130123248.0032a9ec@mindspring.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Lee W. Fry wrote: > However, > to evaluate impact on 2 meter EME work, or 6 meter, there has to be somebody > operating SS in those bands. All I see in the initial list of stations in > the STA is 900 MHz. I'm worried that based on the lack of off-the-shelf > equipment that there won't be enough stations involved on anything but > 900Mhz and 2.4 Ghz to determine very much. I'm speaking for myself with this next- the "official" opinions will no doubt weigh in shortly. The STA gives us the ability to use existing commercial 902-928 MHz SS equipment. It also gives us the ability to do SS on all Amateur bands above 50 MHz. The immediate effect of the STA will be to get SS units of some kind into hands that had NO experience with it previously. They'll see what they like about it, what they don't like, things Amateurs could do better, networking techniques, etc. This will grow the amount of Amateur Radio experience and expertise with SS exponentially over what we have at the moment. Steve N8GNJ -- Steve Stroh Woodinville, Washington, USA strohs@halcyon.com From wd5ivd@tapr.org Sat Nov 30 10:23:13 1996 Received: from [129.120.111.42] (knezek2.coe.unt.edu [129.120.111.42]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id KAA18896 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 10:23:06 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961130123248.0032a9ec@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 10:19:00 -0600 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: Re: [SS:575] SS below 70cm? >I guess my real question is how big an amateur community will be required to >add anything measurable to either the military or the commercial "noise >floor" on any band? I doubt we will add much to what the military is doing >on bands where there is no commercial activity and any thing we would add >will certainly be swamped out on bands where there is. I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't see 3 million amateurs every doing anything on 6, 220, or 2 for sometime to come. The debate that Phil Karn and Robert Carpenter had this summer ran about the same lines. It boils down to that if someone designs bad equipment -- no matter if it is SS or some other mode, it will probably interfere with someone or something. The clue is to build equipment that does not. The technology exist to do it....but the detractors will want to somehow stop you from trying. Ever forward! :-) Frank Perkins posted an example of generating a DS signal using a DSP. While the DSP-93 could not generate a really wide DS signal, what engines are currently out there that this code could be ported to that would do the trick ? Then what would the interface between the DSP and radio be ? Then can someone build up a radio for 2 or 6 meters that would allow a 1 meg wide or wider signal to be present ? Those are all answerable questions. Maybe someone can being up the DSP issues over on the DSP@tapr.org list. As to the military radios already on our bands most likely doing SS. Have you not noticed that anything done outside of amateur radio doesn't count in most hams book. It has to be done by hams for it to count in the real world :-) I hope we can find some ways to get equipment and operations on the other bands we have access to under the STA. Under the Buass STA there was little operations in the bands available under that STA. I never got a full count from Bob on his STA, but he never did have a lot of people sign up. We hope that TAPR having an STA will get a larger group of people involved so that something might turn up which the entire STA can take advantage of. The reason you see 900Mhz on most of the list, is because as you pointed out, equipment can be had and gotten on the band. It is important to have something on the air and testing while the harder areas are worked on. We would hate to go to all this trouble to get the STA to then do nothing with it before the end of 6 months. That would be a good way of not having any chance at an extension. A lot of the designs that people have shown me for doing SS work under Part 97 use existing RF modules on 900, 2.4, and 5 gigs. It still comes down to fact that amateurs can do digital a lot easier than RF. When RF modules are available for the 3 part 15 bands, certainly amateurs are going to try to use them. One reason the 2-meter repeater explosion happened -- the availability of inexpensive landmobile radios for repeaters. We are going to need to start using some of the new RF technology that is being made available now to design amateur radios that can be used with wideband digital modulations for 6,2,and 220 if we really want to make sure we are operating on our amateur bands. I think the conversation over on the VHF list is about over for me. The same issues, which I will not be able to every provide a suitable answer or argument for, are turning back up. Time to focus on things I can change and effect. Greg ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- From wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org Sat Nov 30 10:28:52 1996 Received: from wb9mjn.ampr.org (wb9mjn.ampr.org [44.72.98.19]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id KAA19044 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 10:28:41 -0600 (CST) From: wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org Date: Sat, 30 Nov 96 10:09:53 UTC Message-Id: <11441@wb9mjn.ampr.org> To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:575] SS below 70cm? In-Reply-To: your message of Sat Nov 30 06:33:58 1996 <2.2.32.19961130123248.0032a9ec@mindspring.com> Hi Lee, Steve and Dave, On 6 meter EME, I ve only heard of one person who had accomplished this, and he was using the resources of a government funded research group. He had a large field of fixed yagis, and when the moon came across the boresite of the array, he did EME for grins. Consequently, 6 meter EME intereferance is really a non-issue. Let alone the channel 2 problem. 2 meter and 70 cm interferance could be a problem. These are the two most used EME bands. 70 cm is a very good band for eme. 900 Mhz is a non-issue too. The ham SS would just be a small addition to the existing commercial licensed, and unlicensed activity. Of which the li- censed activity has priority over ham radio in this band. 2.4 Ghz is an issue. This is the best space communications band available to Hams. But, due to terrain absorbtion, and antenna directivity, it should be workable. The moon is rarely on the horizon. And an upward pointed EME array will really do a wamy on any 1 watt DSSS signals. FHSS can be programmed to avoid the EME spectrum altogether. The DDMA-WAN idea would avoid the azimuth's of EME stations, simply because during transmission, the EME station would create a high BER. And the azimuthal based routing, would go around such stations. This would make a 13 or dB reduction in signal, in addition to the EME array reduction. I guess the best advice for EME's is to do it "right". That is, design an- tennas primarily for off boresite rejection of signals. SS is not the only terrestrial noise source, anyway. Blowing up about SS, is stupid, when there is so much other noise out there. Especially from power poles, cars and con- sumer computing/entertainment devices, and compact florescent lighting, and power factor controllers, and and and... 73, Don. Mailbox : WB9MJN @ N9HSI.IL.USA.NA AMPRNet : wb9mjn@wb9mjn.ampr.org[44.72.98.19] Internet: wb9mjn%wb9mjn.ampr.org@uugate.aim.utah.edu From wd5ivd@tapr.org Sat Nov 30 11:44:49 1996 Received: from [129.120.111.42] (knezek2.coe.unt.edu [129.120.111.42]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id LAA23073 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 11:44:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <2.2.32.19961130123248.0032a9ec@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 11:48:38 -0600 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Greg Jones, WD5IVD" Subject: Re: [SS:578] Re: SS below 70cm? >Frank Perkins posted an example of generating a DS signal using a DSP. >While the DSP-93 could not generate a really wide DS signal, what engines >are currently out there that this code could be ported to that would do the >trick ? Then what would the interface between the DSP and radio be ? Then >can someone build up a radio for 2 or 6 meters that would allow a 1 meg >wide or wider signal to be present ? Those are all answerable questions. >Maybe someone can being up the DSP issues over on the DSP@tapr.org list. I forgot to add that Phil Karn has something running on PC that would probably do the same trick. Maybe not DS, but some interesting stuff. At the ARRL Future Systems Committee in Seattle there was discussion of building an RF module that would interface to what Phil was wanting to code on his PC. This might be another solution to get a number of people operating on other bands. Cheers - Greg ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd ----- From srbible@gnatnet.net Sat Nov 30 21:32:57 1996 Received: from rupe.gnatnet.net (root@rupe.gnatnet.net [206.30.198.8]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id VAA16685 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:32:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from avatar.gnatnet.net (dialup31.gnatnet.net [206.30.198.131]) by rupe.gnatnet.net (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA24245 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 23:33:36 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961201033305.006979b4@gnatnet.net> X-Sender: srbible@gnatnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:33:05 -0500 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Steven R. Bible" Subject: Re: [SS:575] SS below 70cm? >However, I'm wondering if SS is already there and they don't know it. The >Army and Marine Corps have thousands of SINCGARS radios which operate from >30MHz to 88MHz and as near as I can tell have some sort of frequency SINGARS is a Frequency Hopping voice mode radio that the Army and Marines later adapted to include digital transmission. - Steve, N7HPR (n7hpr@tapr.org) From zsolt@direct.ca Sat Nov 30 22:36:15 1996 Received: from orb.direct.ca (root@orb.direct.ca [199.60.229.5]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id WAA19609 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:36:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from boxer.direct.ca ([204.174.243.144]) by orb.direct.ca with SMTP id <30709-6362>; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 20:35:56 -0800 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:38:00 -0800 (PST) From: George Cserenyi To: "Steven R. Bible" cc: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:581] Re: SS below 70cm? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961201033305.006979b4@gnatnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII How frequently does it hop and how far? George On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Steven R. Bible wrote: > > >However, I'm wondering if SS is already there and they don't know it. The > >Army and Marine Corps have thousands of SINCGARS radios which operate from > >30MHz to 88MHz and as near as I can tell have some sort of frequency > > SINGARS is a Frequency Hopping voice mode radio that the Army and Marines > later adapted to include digital transmission. > > - Steve, N7HPR > (n7hpr@tapr.org) > >