From srbible@gnatnet.net Mon Sep 02 17:36:03 1996 Received: from james.gnatnet.net (root@james.gnatnet.net [206.30.198.5]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id RAA08516 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 17:36:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from avatar.eagnet.com ([199.76.206.100]) by james.gnatnet.net (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA15167 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 17:31:38 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960902213158.00696fa0@gnatnet.net> X-Sender: srbible@gnatnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 17:31:58 -0400 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Steven R. Bible" Subject: Anybody out there? Having been away for the past several months, I have resubscribed to the ss-sig. But in the last few days I have seen nothing! I am wondering if the listserver is still working. Anyone planning on attending the DCC in Seattle? I have 45 minutes to introduce the topic of SS. Curious if readers of this list would like to suggest some topics to cover and common questions to be answered. 73, - Steve, N7HPR srbible@gnatnet.net n7hpr@amsat.org n7hpr@tapr.org From rwhiting@winternet.com Mon Sep 02 18:27:10 1996 Received: from icicle.winternet.com (adm@NS.WINTERNET.COM [198.174.169.5]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id SAA10322 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 18:27:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from adm@localhost) by icicle.winternet.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) id SAA10602 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 18:27:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 18:27:06 -0500 (CDT) Posted-Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 18:27:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199609022327.SAA10602@icicle.winternet.com> Received: from ppp-67-86.dialup.winternet.com(204.246.67.86) by icicle.winternet.com via smap (V2.0alpha) id xma010574; Mon, 2 Sep 96 18:26:51 -0500X-Sender: rwhiting@mail.winternet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ss@tapr.org From: Rick Whiting Subject: Re: Anybody out there? At 17:46 9/2/96 -0500, Steven R. Bible" Anyone planning on attending the DCC in Seattle? I have 45 minutes to >introduce the topic of SS. Curious if readers of this list would like to >suggest some topics to cover and common questions to be answered. Well, there is the "issue" well discussed here and on other mail lists of the compatibility of SS with other modes. I'm sure the question will come up so might as well hit it in your talk. Regards/ Rick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Richard A. (Rick) Whiting Phone: + 1 612 550 1213 5780 Rosewood Ln. N. E-mail: rwhiting@winternet.com Plymouth, MN 55442-1411 Packet: W0TN @ WB0GDB.MN.USA.NOAM *INDEPENDENT PROFESSIONAL CONSULTANT - TELECOMMUNICATIONS & WIRELESS* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From srbible@gnatnet.net Mon Sep 02 20:04:08 1996 Received: from james.gnatnet.net (root@james.gnatnet.net [206.30.198.5]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id UAA15329 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 20:04:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from avatar.eagnet.com ([199.76.206.100]) by james.gnatnet.net (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA20311 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:59:41 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960903010404.00663734@gnatnet.net> X-Sender: srbible@gnatnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 21:04:04 -0400 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Steven R. Bible" Subject: Re: [SS:505] Re: Anybody out there? At 17:46 9/2/96 -0500, Steven R. Bible" >Anyone planning on attending the DCC in Seattle? I have 45 minutes to >>introduce the topic of SS. Curious if readers of this list would like to >>suggest some topics to cover and common questions to be answered. At 06:39 PM 9/2/96 -0500, And Rick saz: >Well, there is the "issue" well discussed here and on other mail lists of >the compatibility of SS with other modes. I'm sure the question will come up >so might as well hit it in your talk. No doubt Rick, and this is the most difficult one to discuss intellegently and calmly (based on past experience :-). This begs the question of how do we address this "issue." Me thinks it's one of two ways: 1) theoritically or 2) in practice. Theoritically speaking, there are several papers written on the subject, and not all of them agree as to the amount of spectrum sharing one can have with incumbant users. Some papers say none and others say some. It all depends on your point of view and what mathematical model you use. The second method is the one I wish amateurs would imbrace, that of going out there and experimenting and seeing first hand how the two systems behave (empirical testing). I only hope this doesn't result in a "range war" between spread spectrum users and others. So it seems to boil down to how do we cooperate to learn of the compatibility issue and the limits there are in overlaying spread spectrum with incumbant users. - Steve, N7HPR srbible@gnatnet.net n7hpr@amsat.org n7hpr@tapr.org From wd5ivd@tapr.org Tue Sep 03 01:36:52 1996 Received: (from wd5ivd@localhost) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) id BAA07917 for ss@tapr.org; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 01:36:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Greg Jones Message-Id: <199609030636.BAA07917@tapr.org> Subject: Re: Steve's Talk To: ss@tapr.org (Spread Spectrum) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 01:36:51 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Actually Steve, I don't think you really need to spend much time on the issue of co-existence. At least not a unproporitional amount as compared to other points. It should probably be a slide or maybe two. As with the talk you listened to that Tom and myself gave at HamCom -- we discussed it, but didn't spend lots of time on ot - since there are a lot of things to cover in 45 mins. It came up as we talked about other items in the technical area...like PSD and spreading codes and power....like weaving a picture and covering it as we went -- since there is more than on topic involved to make a case to why there shouldn't be a problem. I think we hit on this when we talked on the phone the other night. Much of the case requires at least a basic understanding of the basics. That is why I think your book will be a better place to devote a chapter to on the issue of co-existance than in a 45 min talk. After doing a talk now 4 times on SS, I find that most people are interested and concerns on specific issues are discussed after the presenation in the hall. I haven't been to another meeting like the one we had at Long Beach that the ARRL hosted last year. That meeting thus far seems to have been an anomoly. Anywya -- that my .02 cents worth. Greg From glenne@hpsadr2.sr.hp.com Tue Sep 03 08:58:38 1996 Received: from hp.com (hp.com [15.255.152.4]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with ESMTP id IAA24551 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 08:58:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA052159095; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:58:16 -0700 Received: from hpsadr2.sr.hp.com (n6gn.sr.hp.com) by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA107579094; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:58:15 -0700 Received: by hpsadr2.sr.hp.com (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA265669093; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:58:13 -0700 From: Glenn Elmore Message-Id: <199609031358.AA265669093@hpsadr2.sr.hp.com> Subject: Re: [SS:504] Anybody out there? To: ss@tapr.org (Steven R. Bible) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:58:13 -0800 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960902213158.00696fa0@gnatnet.net> from "Steven R. Bible" at Sep 2, 96 05:40:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Having been away for the past several months, I have resubscribed to the > ss-sig. But in the last few days I have seen nothing! I am wondering if > the listserver is still working. Steve, Perhaps we were all waiting for you to return (:>) It *has* been pretty quiet. I think it's the end of summer doldrums. > > Anyone planning on attending the DCC in Seattle? I have 45 minutes to > introduce the topic of SS. Curious if readers of this list would like to > suggest some topics to cover and common questions to be answered. Yes, I'm planning on attending. Had you planned or do you know of any hardware demonstrations? Watching a correlator acquire on a spectrum analyzer is no doubt worth a thousand words.... I don't have a very good feel for what people are/would be interested in. Glad to see you back. Glenn n6gn From srbible@gnatnet.net Tue Sep 03 16:10:49 1996 Received: from james.gnatnet.net (root@james.gnatnet.net [206.30.198.5]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id QAA17255 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 16:10:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from avatar.eagnet.com (dialup103.gnatnet.net [206.30.198.203]) by james.gnatnet.net (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA16564 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 16:06:31 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960903211045.00690194@gnatnet.net> X-Sender: srbible@gnatnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 17:10:45 -0400 To: ss@tapr.org From: "Steven R. Bible" Subject: Re: [SS:508] Re: Anybody out there? At 09:01 AM 9/3/96 -0500, Glenn n6gn wrote: >Yes, I'm planning on attending. Had you planned or do you know of any >hardware demonstrations? Watching a correlator acquire on a spectrum >analyzer is no doubt worth a thousand words.... I don't have a very good >feel for what people are/would be interested in. This would be a good demonstration offline from the talk, perhaps, given that I have only 45 minutes worth of time. I have also attended SS demos that included two units talking to one another and a spectrum analyzer showing the spectrum. I am not sure how the audience received it. Then again, it was a "general" audience. The DCC would be a more focused group. I am always on the look out for meaningful demonstrations/examples/exhibits that show how spread spectrum works. Granted, now that I have studied the concepts, there's no mystery; but now to convey this to everyone else :-). Since the attendees of the DCC are a more advanced group, then a more advanced talk might be in order. I don't intend on spending much time on "spread spectrum isn't new" and "Shannon suggested..." sorts of retoric. I plan on starting with topics people are familiar with and progress toward SS. The idea is the classic teaching method of assimilating new knowledge with old knowledge (or rather knowledge one is familiar with). So here's the plan, start with PSK modulation and show how BPSK and QPSK multipied by a PN sequence becomes DSSS. Then spend some time on the issues of correlation, synchronization and tracking. Of course cover FH, which is not as hard a concept to get across. I'd also like to extol the virtues of SS and how they relate to networking. >Glad to see you back. Thanks! Glad to be back. 73, - Steve, N7HPR srbible@gnatnet.net n7hpr@amsat.org n7hpr@tapr.org From ssampson@oklahoma.net Tue Sep 03 17:23:19 1996 Received: from dns.okc (dns.oklahoma.net [208.2.112.2]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id RAA20402 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:23:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from disco.oklahoma.net by dns.okc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA12279; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:26:33 -0500 Sender: root@oklahoma.net Message-ID: <322CAFC7.256C626F@oklahoma.net> Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 17:23:03 -0500 From: Steve Sampson Organization: Little Shack on the Prairie X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.16 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Correlators Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Way back when TRW produced the FFT on a chip, I ordered one of their spec books. Looking through it I found the correlator chip. Back in those days I was mostly into speech scramblers and TDMA, but the thought comes to mind how easy these must be to produce using a PAL, GAL, or whatever the current product is called. Probably a speed limit for these things, but they probably could fill a vacuum. You don't see correlator chips for sale in the Jameco catalog :-) Who sells these things today? Steve From arutz@shfmicro.com Tue Sep 03 17:54:49 1996 Received: from alice.adsnet.com (adsnet.com [206.158.2.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id RAA22191 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:54:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ads2-ts4.adsnet.com (ads2-ts4.adsnet.com [206.158.2.236]) by alice.adsnet.com (8.6.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA07059 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:57:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 17:57:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199609032257.RAA07059@alice.adsnet.com> X-Sender: arutz@mail.adsnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ss@tapr.org From: arutz@shfmicro.com (alan rutz) I want to build a PN generator. I am aware of Randy Roberts KC6YJY article in 73 magazine, Nov 92, that shows a good 7-stage PN generator, and I am aware of Randy's schematic in SSS Jun 92 showing a PN generator capable of 33 different Gold codes. Anyone have anything newer/better/cheaper? Alan, WA9GKA From bruce@satscan.com Wed Sep 04 08:18:20 1996 Received: from satscan.com (root@satscan.com [205.199.65.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id IAA10416 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:18:16 -0500 (CDT) From: bruce@satscan.com Received: from 205.199.65.1 (boris.satscan.com [205.199.65.4]) by satscan.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA04676 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 06:21:38 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 06:21:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199609041321.GAA04676@satscan.com> X-Sender: bruce@satscan.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ss@tapr.org Subject: Re: [SS:511] > I am aware of Randy's schematic in >SSS Jun 92 showing a PN generator capable of 33 different Gold codes. > > >Alan, WA9GKA > > Whats SSS? Where can I get a copy? Who publish's that publication? TNX Bruce KF7PJ Bruce Weber, KF7PJ, Satscan Corporation / Cascade Technology PO Box 1109, Sultan WA 98294-1109 (360)-793-3433 FAX: 793-0359 From arutz@shfmicro.com Wed Sep 04 11:27:13 1996 Received: from alice.adsnet.com (adsnet.com [206.158.2.1]) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) with SMTP id LAA22975 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:27:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ads2-ts2.adsnet.com (ads2-ts2.adsnet.com [206.158.2.234]) by alice.adsnet.com (8.6.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA18604 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:29:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:29:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199609041629.LAA18604@alice.adsnet.com> X-Sender: arutz@mail.adsnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ss@tapr.org From: arutz@shfmicro.com (alan rutz) Subject: Re: [SS:512] Re: >> I am aware of Randy's schematic in >>SSS Jun 92 showing a PN generator capable of 33 different Gold codes. >>Alan, WA9GKA >Whats SSS? Where can I get a copy? Who publish's that publication? > >TNX Bruce KF7PJ SSS (Spread Spectrum Scene Magazine) started (I think) in 1992 by Randy Roberts, KC6YJY. Like many specialty magazines, it had to change format a couple of times, and now is published "on-line" at http://www.sss-mag.com/whatsnew/ While he sent out a printed magazine to subscribers, (I subscribed early and often!) he also contributed to a few Ham magazines, and Randy is very much involved in Spread-spectrum. Randy's mailing address is PO Box 2199, El Granada, CA, 94018-2199, and his E-mail address is randyrf@sss-mag.com (may by outdated?) Besides Randy's two scematics for making a pseudorandom number generator, does anyone else have anything newer, or cheaper, or maybe even better? Alan, WA9GKA SHF Microwave Parts Co. (http://www.shfmicro.com) (arutz@shfmicro.com) From wd5ivd@tapr.org Tue Sep 24 02:13:46 1996 Received: (from wd5ivd@localhost) by tapr.org (8.7.5/8.7.3/1.9) id CAA24566; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:13:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Greg Jones Message-Id: <199609240713.CAA24566@tapr.org> Subject: TAPR SS Position Statement To: ss@tapr.org (Spread Spectrum), tapr-bb@tapr.org (TAPR-BB mailing) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:13:44 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text This will be published in the upcoming PSR. It was passed at the Board meeting held last Friday. Cheers - Greg ---- TAPR's Statement on Spread Spectrum Technology Development TAPR was founded in 1982 as a membership supported non-profit amateur radio research and development organization with specific interests in the areas of packet and digital communications. In the tradition of TAPR, the Board of Directors at their Fall 1995 meeting voted that the organization would begin to actively pursue the research and development of amateur radio spread spectrum digital communications. At the Spring 1996 board of directors meeting, the following statement of purpose was passed: "TAPR believes that the technical facts support our conviction that conventional and spread spectrum systems can coexist without detriment to conventional systems on all frequencies from MF to EHF. To this end, TAPR will begin to research spread spectrum systems that will develop technology for future deployment." As stated above, the TAPR board feels strongly about TAPR's focus on spread spectrum technology and especially how it relates to the potential coexistence on frequencies that will have increased number of users occupying them. The amateur radio bands, like other spectrum will become more heavily utilized in the future. It is in the interest of amateur radio to develop systems that are interference-resistant while not interfering with other primary or secondary users on those frequencies. TAPR understands the concerns many have with the new technology, and believes that efforts in both education and research is necessary in order to allay the fears about interference and to demonstrate the benefits of the technology. TAPR believes that todays' communications technology is moving toward all digital transmitters and receivers. These advances in technology, combined with the swift evolution of cell based transmission and switching protocols, are opening up a new set of possibilities for unique new services utilizing intelligent networks. These will contain smart transmitters, receivers, and switches. Today's Internet is perhaps the best example of a self-regulating structure that embodies these new technological approaches to communications in the networking domain. However, to date, many of these innovations have not moved into the wireless networking arena. TAPR will work on moving these innovations into the amateur radio community. TAPR feels that the VHF/UHF/SHF radio networks of the future will involve a mixture of links and switches of different ownership, which terminate at the end-user via relatively short-distance links. What will then be required is a built-in, distributed, self-governing set of protocols to cause the network's behavior to make more efficient use of a limited, common shared resource, the radio spectrum. Creating such a self-regulating structure for the optimal sharing of spectrum will require much effort. One of the major problems which stands in the way of these new approaches today is the current FCC regulatory environment and the manner in which spectrum is managed and allocated under its rules. Historically, the current regulatory approach to radio has been based upon the technology that was in use at the time that the Communications Act of 1934 was framed, basically what we would call today, 'dumb' transmitters speaking to 'dumb' receivers. The technology of that time required reserved bandwidths to be set aside for each licensed service so that spectrum would be available when needed. Given this regulatory approach, many new applications cannot be accommodated since there is no available unallocated spectrum to 'park' new services. However, given the new set of tools available to the entrepreneur with the advent of digital technology, what once were 'dumb' transmitters and receivers can now be smart devices which are capable of exercising greater judgment in the effective use and sharing of spectrum. The more flexible the tools that we incorporate in these devices, the greater the number of uses that can be accommodated in a fixed, shared spectrum. Therefore, TAPR will focus its spread spectrum effort in the following areas: TAPR will work to promote rules and technologies to make the most efficent use of the spectrum through power control, forward error correction, and other means to minimize interference among spread spectrum users and existing communications systems. TAPR will work on issues and efforts with other national organizations to change the regulatory environment and rules in order to promote the experimentation, development, and later deployment of spread spectrum technology. TAPR will work to develop information on the topic to help educate members and the amateur community as a whole about spread spectrum technology, and to disseminate this information via printed publications, the World Wide Web, presentations at conferences and meetings, and other means. TAPR will work to foster experimentation, development, and design of spread spectrum systems, and to facilitate the exchange of information between the researchers and other interested parties. TAPR will work to develop a national intra-network to foster the deployment of future high-speed spread spectrum systems into regional and local communities, including the development of suitable protocols and guidelines for deployment of these systems. TAPR will work with commercial companies who manufacture spread spectrum devices which operate in spectrum shared by the amateur radio service (ARS), in order to make them more aware of the nature of ARS operations on those bands with the goal to work towards the deployment of devices which will minimize interference between all spectrum sharing partners. TAPR will work with commercial companies who manufacture spread spectrum devices in order to identify equipments that can be either used or modified for use for Part 97 operation. ---- Adopted by the TAPR Board on September 20th, 1996 at Seatac, Washington Board Meeting. Spread Spectrum Statement Committee: Greg Jones, WD5IVD Dewayne Hendricks, WA8DZP Barry McLarnon, VE3JF Steve Bible, N7HPR