From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 3 17:24:59 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA21804 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 17:24:58 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "David's mail" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Ethernet Converter Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 23:05:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000d01bf8568$723c2320$d1d12cc3@pentium4> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dear All, I'm not sure if this is the correct place to send this request, but somebody may be able to help me. I am trying to do some experiments using high speed data (2Mbit/s) in the 2GHz (UK) amateur band, what I need is a converter to interface to this radio, it uses TTL levels for transmit data, transmit clock, receive data and receive clock, with the otherside of the converter connected to the ethernet network in my house (10Mbit/s on UTP). I know there are commercial converters available at about £400:00 each, but my budget will not go that far, especially as I need two of them, one each end of the link. Any circuit diagrams, help or other pointers will be gratefully received. 73, David, G6FEO. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 3 19:34:28 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id TAA25069 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 19:34:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 17:25:40 -0800 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Derek Lassen Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_317444250==_.ALT" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000303171647.00cba1e0@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk --=====================_317444250==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 11:05 PM 3/3/00 +0000, you wrote: >Dear All, > >I'm not sure if this is the correct place to send this request, but= somebody >may be able to help me. > >I am trying to do some experiments using high speed data (2Mbit/s) in the >2GHz (UK) amateur band, what I need is a converter to interface to this >radio, it uses TTL levels for transmit data, transmit clock, receive data >and receive clock, with the otherside of the converter connected to the >ethernet network in my house (10Mbit/s on UTP). On the one hand, converting from 10bT vs TTL is easy, you need a Jack=20 (RJ45), magnetics (ie pulse transformer) and clocking circuits (PHY device). However The data and clock are at 10 Mhz on the 10bT and are at 2 Mhz on the modem. So you need a buffer or processor between them. For Buffers, look at IDT's offerings. For Processors, Motorola's 68EN360 or AMD's Am186CC. Follow up if this isn't enough. Good Luck. 73 de KN6TD >I know there are commercial converters available at about =A3400:00 each,= but >my budget will not go that far, especially as I need two of them, one each >end of the link. > >Any circuit diagrams, help or other pointers will be gratefully received. > >73, David, G6FEO. > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: KN6TD@CLUBNET.NET >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --=====================_317444250==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 11:05 PM 3/3/00 +0000, you wrote:
Dear All,

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to send this request, but somebody
may be able to help me.

I am trying to do some experiments using high speed data (2Mbit/s) in the
2GHz (UK) amateur band, what I need is a converter to interface to this
radio, it uses TTL levels for transmit data, transmit clock, receive data
and receive clock, with the otherside of the converter connected to the
ethernet network in my house (10Mbit/s on UTP).

On the one hand, converting from 10bT vs TTL is easy, you need a Jack (RJ45), magnetics (ie pulse transformer) and clocking circuits (PHY device).

However

The data and clock are at 10 Mhz on the 10bT and are at 2 Mhz on the modem.

So you need a buffer or processor between them.

For Buffers, look at IDT's offerings.

For Processors, Motorola's 68EN360 or AMD's Am186CC.

Follow up if this isn't enough.

Good Luck.

73 de KN6TD




I know there are commercial converters available at about =A3400:00 each, but
my budget will not go that far, especially as I need two of them, one each
end of the link.

Any circuit diagrams, help or other pointers will be gratefully received.

73, David, G6FEO.


---
You are currently subscribed to ss as: KN6TD@CLUBNET.NET
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org

--=====================_317444250==_.ALT-- --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Mar 4 06:04:52 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id GAA26803 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 06:04:49 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: lfry@pop.mindspring.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 07:00:36 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Lee W. Fry" Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <2.2.32.20000304120036.01372ea8@pop.mindspring.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 11:05 PM 3/3/00 -0000,David wrote: >I am trying to do some experiments using high speed data (2Mbit/s) in the >2GHz (UK) amateur band, what I need is a converter to interface to this >radio, it uses TTL levels for transmit data, transmit clock, receive data >and receive clock, with the otherside of the converter connected to the >ethernet network in my house (10Mbit/s on UTP). > Sounds like a good job for a P100 box with a cheap ISA ethernet card and an enhanced parallel port. Lee AA0JP --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sun Mar 5 11:28:48 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA02467 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 11:28:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: elsy@email.isiline.it Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 18:25:01 +0000 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Elsy snc." Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000305182501.0095a790@email.isiline.it> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 00.00 05/03/00 -0600, you wrote: >TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Digest for Saturday, March 04, 2000. >Subject: Re: Ethernet Converter >>I am trying to do some experiments using high speed data (2Mbit/s) in the >>2GHz (UK) amateur band, what I need is a converter to interface to this >>radio, it uses TTL levels for transmit data, transmit clock, receive data >>and receive clock, with the otherside of the converter connected to the >>ethernet network in my house (10Mbit/s on UTP). >> >Sounds like a good job for a P100 box with a cheap ISA ethernet card and an >enhanced parallel port. > >Lee >AA0JP >---------------------------------------------------------------------> Sorry... what is P100 box ????? many thanks for info Best Regards Renato Bertello Elsy Informatica snc. Via Principi, 41 12042 BRA - Italy Tel. +39 0333 2700071 fax. +39 0172 424255 http://www.elsy.it --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sun Mar 5 14:53:16 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA10027 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 14:53:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Allen Finne" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 14:55:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <009701bf86e5$32cb99e0$0b00a8c0@sqk.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elsy snc." To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 12:25 PM Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter > At 00.00 05/03/00 -0600, you wrote: > >TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Digest for Saturday, March 04, > 2000. > >Subject: Re: Ethernet Converter > > >>I am trying to do some experiments using high speed data (2Mbit/s) in the > >>2GHz (UK) amateur band, what I need is a converter to interface to this > >>radio, it uses TTL levels for transmit data, transmit clock, receive data > >>and receive clock, with the otherside of the converter connected to the > >>ethernet network in my house (10Mbit/s on UTP). > >> > >Sounds like a good job for a P100 box with a cheap ISA ethernet card and an > >enhanced parallel port. > > > >Lee > >AA0JP > >---------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > Sorry... what is P100 box ????? > > many thanks for info > > > > Best Regards Renato Bertello > > > Elsy Informatica snc. > Via Principi, 41 > 12042 BRA - Italy > Tel. +39 0333 2700071 > fax. +39 0172 424255 > http://www.elsy.it > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: DALLEN@CEI.NET > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sun Mar 5 17:02:43 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA14574 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:02:43 -0600 (CST) From: "Jose M. Valdes R. YV5LIX" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:02:35 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by rs5s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net id TAA15392 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id RAA14574 Hi Lee, what is a P100 box? Where can I fiend some information about it? I'm also trying to set up a high speed link for a Amateur Radio Internet gateway using my ADSL Internet access and Ethernet cards. Let's keep amateur radio alive 73/DX from Jose M. Valdes R. YV5LIX yv5lix@yv5lix.org yv5lix@cantv.net http://www.yv5lix.org -----Mensaje original----- De: bounce-ss-14798@lists.tapr.org [mailto:bounce-ss-14798@lists.tapr.org]En nombre de Lee W. Fry Enviado el: Sábado, 04 de Marzo de 2000 08:01 YV5LIX Para: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Asunto: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter At 11:05 PM 3/3/00 -0000,David wrote: >I am trying to do some experiments using high speed data (2Mbit/s) in the >2GHz (UK) amateur band, what I need is a converter to interface to this >radio, it uses TTL levels for transmit data, transmit clock, receive data >and receive clock, with the otherside of the converter connected to the >ethernet network in my house (10Mbit/s on UTP). > Sounds like a good job for a P100 box with a cheap ISA ethernet card and an enhanced parallel port. Lee AA0JP --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: yv5lix@yv5lix.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sun Mar 5 17:41:42 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA16134 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:41:41 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: lfry@pop.mindspring.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 18:37:11 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Lee W. Fry" Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <2.2.32.20000305233711.010fbebc@pop.mindspring.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 07:02 PM 3/5/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Lee, what is a P100 box? Where can I fiend some information about it? > >I'm also trying to set up a high speed link for a Amateur Radio Internet >gateway using my ADSL Internet access and Ethernet cards. Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse anyone with jargon. By P100 box, I meant a Pentium 100 or similar PC from about four generations ago. You would want one with an Enhanced Parallel Port which provides two way TTL communication. A P100 with 16M af memory and a 500 - 800 MByte hard drive would run Linux nicely which would get you all of the operating system you need to run IP over Ethernet for data in and out to the radio. You would have to write software to interface the parallel port to your radio. I recently saw an add from a surplus place that had HP Vectra 133's with 32M of memory, CD, 2.6GB of disk drive, Etherlink III network card, keyboard and monitor for $US199. The price is typical of machines in this class. Such machines are very easy to find, as they were once the desktop standard in many large corporations that are now retiring anything slower than 200 MHz. Lee AA0JP Lee W. Fry lfry@mindspring.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 6 11:32:39 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA05120 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:32:38 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Daly, Brian" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:28:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Pentium 100 computer I believe is what he is referring to.. Brian WB7OML > ---------- > From: Elsy snc.[SMTP:elsy@elsy.it] > Reply To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 10:25 AM > To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter > > At 00.00 05/03/00 -0600, you wrote: > >TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Digest for Saturday, March > 04, > 2000. > >Subject: Re: Ethernet Converter > > >>I am trying to do some experiments using high speed data (2Mbit/s) in > the > >>2GHz (UK) amateur band, what I need is a converter to interface to this > >>radio, it uses TTL levels for transmit data, transmit clock, receive > data > >>and receive clock, with the otherside of the converter connected to the > >>ethernet network in my house (10Mbit/s on UTP). > >> > >Sounds like a good job for a P100 box with a cheap ISA ethernet card and > an > >enhanced parallel port. > > > >Lee > >AA0JP > >---------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > Sorry... what is P100 box ????? > > many thanks for info > > > > Best Regards Renato Bertello > > > Elsy Informatica snc. > Via Principi, 41 > 12042 BRA - Italy > Tel. +39 0333 2700071 > fax. +39 0172 424255 > http://www.elsy.it > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: brian.daly@attws.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 6 13:02:52 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id NAA08456 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:02:51 -0600 (CST) From: "Jose M. Valdes R. YV5LIX" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:02:57 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for the information Lee. Let's keep amateur radio alive 73/DX from Jose M. Valdes R. YV5LIX yv5lix@yv5lix.org yv5lix@cantv.net FAX: 425-795-0655 (USA) http://www.yv5lix.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 7 11:29:54 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA08044 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:29:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 16:23:46 +0100 From: Luis Yanes Organization: Escuela Superior de Ingenieros de Sevilla MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Ethernet Converter References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38C51F02.CD5@bart.us.es> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk David's mail wrote: > > I am trying to do some experiments using high speed data (2Mbit/s) in the > 2GHz (UK) amateur band, what I need is a converter to interface to this > radio, it uses TTL levels for transmit data, transmit clock, receive data > and receive clock, with the otherside of the converter connected to the > ethernet network in my house (10Mbit/s on UTP). There is a 10baseT (UTP) <-> AUI converter design in my pages, so you only will need to translate the AUI levels to TTL if really needed, but the 2Mbit/s <-> 10Mbit/s will need to buffer the data and some logic. http://www.esi.us.es/~melus/gwlhw32.html -- 73's de Luis mail: melus@bart.us.es Ampr: eb7gwl.ampr.org http://www.esi.us.es/~melus/ <- Homebrewed Hardware Projects with PCBs --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 8 07:38:37 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA00715 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:38:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Dave D'Epagnier" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Spread Spectrum Scene Magazine Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 06:33:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm Dave (K0QE). I'm new to this list and want to get involved with SS development asap. I'd really like to develop and/or build a FHSS radio/modem and am trying to learn as much as I can right now. I found Spread Spectrum Scene Magazine on the web (a great resource!) and noticed that it seems to have been inactive since about the middle of 1998. Is this true? Are there other good resources anybody can recommend for late breaking chip information and projects? What other good resources are there besides the TAPR website? thanks!, Dave K0QE --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 8 11:38:56 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA08634 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:38:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:41:37 -0600 From: Jeremy McMillan Organization: Chicago Board of Options Exchange X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38C690D1.345D728F@cboe.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I happen to believe that wireless should go the way of the Internet: Multipath peer-to-peer network of intelligent repeaters (routers). I like the idea of variable power, decoupled send/recieve FHSS spreading stuff proposed by Tim Shepard in 1996. Has everyone read that stuff? It basically designs the near/far problem into FHSS spreading codes as part of the protocol. It trades off latency of multiple-hops for the ability to scale tranciever density per area. The more dense the concentration of transcievers, the more aggregate bandwidth. There should be Shepard PDF's on the TAPR web site. I forwarded them months ago... "Eric S. Johansson" wrote: > I was reading an article about the Sprint/MCI merger and saw a > statement by Bernard J. Ebbers claiming to provide open access for > broadband wireless Internet services as well as accelerating access to > rural areas. > > the article can be found at: > http://www.internetnews.com/isp-news/article/0,1087,8_281551,00.html > > an interesting quote from the article: > > The Federal Communications Commission has made it a priority for the > industry to find a way to span the "digital divide" and develop > broadband access to under served communities. By committing the merged > company to developing such a network, MCI-WorldCom is offering the > federal regulators the means to exit from the open access debate by > approving of the pending deal. > > -------- > > I'm probably flogging a dead horse with this idea but I still think > amateurs providing Internet access has some merit. Considering the > FCC's goal and our public service charter, it seems like a natural > match. > > --- eric > > Eric S. Johansson esj@inguide.com esj@harvee.billerica.ma.us > This message was composed almost entirely using NaturallySpeaking > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 8 11:49:20 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA08825 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:49:19 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Eric S. Johansson" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:47:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <082501bf8926$71d6ac40$0300a8c0@alfee> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy McMillan" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:41 PM Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? > I happen to believe that wireless should go the way of the Internet: > Multipath peer-to-peer network of intelligent repeaters (routers). I like > the idea of variable power, decoupled send/recieve FHSS spreading stuff > proposed by Tim Shepard in 1996. > > Has everyone read that stuff? It basically designs the near/far problem > into FHSS spreading codes as part of the protocol. It trades off latency > of multiple-hops for the ability to scale tranciever density per area. The > more dense the concentration of transcievers, the more aggregate > bandwidth. There should be Shepard PDF's on the TAPR web site. I forwarded > them months ago... I looked briefly for it but no luck. would you please send a pointer to the document to the list? > > "Eric S. Johansson" wrote: > > > I was reading an article about the Sprint/MCI merger and saw a > > statement by Bernard J. Ebbers claiming to provide open access for > > broadband wireless Internet services as well as accelerating access to > > rural areas. > > > > the article can be found at: > > http://www.internetnews.com/isp-news/article/0,1087,8_281551,00.html > > > > an interesting quote from the article: > > > > The Federal Communications Commission has made it a priority for the > > industry to find a way to span the "digital divide" and develop > > broadband access to under served communities. By committing the merged > > company to developing such a network, MCI-WorldCom is offering the > > federal regulators the means to exit from the open access debate by > > approving of the pending deal. > > > > -------- > > > > I'm probably flogging a dead horse with this idea but I still think > > amateurs providing Internet access has some merit. Considering the > > FCC's goal and our public service charter, it seems like a natural > > match. > > > > --- eric > > > > Eric S. Johansson esj@inguide.com esj@harvee.billerica.ma.us > > This message was composed almost entirely using NaturallySpeaking > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: esj@harvee.billerica.ma.us > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 9 00:40:55 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id AAA10753 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 00:40:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:04:41 +0700 (JVT) From: Sigit To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Pseudo Noise Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dear All, I am a new member of this maling list. I am a student at Gadjah Mada University Indonesia. Right now, I am doing my thesis about spread spectrum using direct sequence. I will build the hardware, but this hardware is limited without radio frequency. Therefore I will only build the hardware that could show spread spectrum scheme using direct sequence. I still don't know how to synchronize and track in the reciever. Anybody help me ? Thank You very much. SIGIT --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 9 07:53:30 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA28917 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 07:53:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Rochford, Richard E (Dick)" Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Pseudo Noise Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:51:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <121272560591D311A75500805F9F674401C3AF1C@OH0301EXCH001U> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk SIGIT, Andre Kesterloot published several articles about direct sequence systems to include the challenge of synchronization. In fact I referenced much of his work in my practicum back in 91'. A bibliography which includes some of his work can be found at the ARRL Web Site http://www.arrl.org/tis/bibs/spread.html . Richard E. Rochford -----Original Message----- From: Sigit [mailto:sigit94@student.te.ugm.ac.id] Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 2:05 AM To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Subject: [ss] Pseudo Noise Dear All, I am a new member of this maling list. I am a student at Gadjah Mada University Indonesia. Right now, I am doing my thesis about spread spectrum using direct sequence. I will build the hardware, but this hardware is limited without radio frequency. Therefore I will only build the hardware that could show spread spectrum scheme using direct sequence. I still don't know how to synchronize and track in the reciever. Anybody help me ? Thank You very much. SIGIT --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: R.E.ROCHFORD@LUCENT.COM To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 9 08:44:04 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA00837 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:44:03 -0600 (CST) X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA From: Lim_Nguyen/CET/UNO/UNEBR@unomail.unomaha.edu To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:35:23 -0600 Subject: [ss] RE: Pseudo Noise Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <8625689D.005028A2.00@unomail.unomaha.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hello everyone: I have a somewhat related question: is there any rule regarding SS transmission that does not employ pseudo-noise codes, either for direct sequence or frequency hopping (or any SS modulation schemes such as time hopping, etc.). Our understanding is that the new ruling removes the old restriction on PN codes. Does this mean that it is OK to use, say, spreading codes that are truly random and time varying? Thanks, - Lim "Rochford, Richard E (Dick)" on 03/09/2000 07:51:59 AM Please respond to "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" cc: (bcc: Lim Nguyen/CET/UNO/UNEBR) Subject [ss] RE: Pseudo Noise : SIGIT, Andre Kesterloot published several articles about direct sequence systems to include the challenge of synchronization. In fact I referenced much of his work in my practicum back in 91'. A bibliography which includes some of his work can be found at the ARRL Web Site http://www.arrl.org/tis/bibs/spread.html . Richard E. Rochford -----Original Message----- From: Sigit [mailto:sigit94@student.te.ugm.ac.id] Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 2:05 AM To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Subject: [ss] Pseudo Noise Dear All, I am a new member of this maling list. I am a student at Gadjah Mada University Indonesia. Right now, I am doing my thesis about spread spectrum using direct sequence. I will build the hardware, but this hardware is limited without radio frequency. Therefore I will only build the hardware that could show spread spectrum scheme using direct sequence. I still don't know how to synchronize and track in the reciever. Anybody help me ? Thank You very much. SIGIT --- --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Mar 11 14:39:17 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA06526 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:39:17 -0600 (CST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAgKp1XFaPAX436KyQLoKjmRKSnIICFCF0tshV9zX7x8ZFafRfpcptk5i8 From: k2pat@webtv.net (Pat Howard) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:36:18 -0500 (EST) To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz Message-ID: Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <9437-38CAAE42-5109@storefull-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The AT&T Model 9515 is/was available from Egghead.com for about $69 + $12 s&h. It's 900 MHz FHSS, presumably less than 1 Watt, and really goes the 4000 feet it claims. I hope to add some gain antennas, put it on the towers and use it for a repeater link about 6 miles apart. From what I read in the FCC R&O of November 1999, I just have to add an ID in the audio chain and it's a bidirectional link. It has 2-way page and intercom functions that I may have to key up or mute as needed, but I think I have a low cost entry to the SS world. What say you? (If "appliance user" is an insult in your vocabulary, please just keep it to yourself and don't clog the SIG with it.) --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Mar 11 15:10:17 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id PAA07656 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:10:16 -0600 (CST) Errors-To: Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:10:59 -0500 From: Jeff King Organization: Aero Data Systems, Inc. X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38CAB662.FE51863F@aerodata.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Did you open it up yet? Would be interesting to hear what it has inside of it, chip sets and such. Under what conditions were you able to get 4000 feet out of it? True line of sight or from the base (inside your home) to you walking around about a mile away (not line of sight)? If the later, getting 6 miles range out of it will be a piece of cake with gain antennas and line of sight. The only problem I can think of, in your application, is you'll need to trick it into thinking your on a real phone line. Trace the logic levels on the telephone interface part of it (ring, off hook, dial tone detected etc.) and you could then trick it out so it would come up as a full time link. Maybe a PIC to do this. The scary thing about this is I bet its nearly as good as a FreeWave unit, (in some ways more complicated) but here we are talking $69 vs. $700 for a FreeWave OEM board. It looks to me as if the freewave board has less then $100 of parts on it (which is consistent with their 10,000 piece pricing at $200 each). BTW, the antenna I like the best for point to point links is the Directive Systems 18 element loop Yagi. This same antenna is sold by Down East Microwave. For a omni, Comet makes a 900mhz vertical that they claim has 11dbi gain. Its 7 feet tall, so you know something is going on inside it. I've had good luck with it, and it seemed to have the same performance level as a corner reflector from Old Antenna lab, which supposedly had about 10dbi gain. -Jeff Pat Howard wrote: > The AT&T Model 9515 is/was available from Egghead.com for about $69 + > $12 s&h. It's 900 MHz FHSS, presumably less than 1 Watt, and really > goes the 4000 feet it claims. > > I hope to add some gain antennas, put it on the towers and use it for a > repeater link about 6 miles apart. From what I read in the FCC R&O of > November 1999, I just have to add an ID in the audio chain and it's a > bidirectional link. It has 2-way page and intercom functions that I may > have to key up or mute as needed, but I think I have a low cost entry to > the SS world. > > What say you? (If "appliance user" is an insult in your vocabulary, > please just keep it to yourself and don't clog the SIG with it.) > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: jeff@aerodata.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sun Mar 12 00:36:27 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id AAA06639 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:36:27 -0600 (CST) From: "Darryl Smith" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz - A Hard distance Limit? Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:39:39 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000d01bf8bed$be3c5c00$32ae2acb@dell.radio-active.net.au> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk G'Day... These phones are not quite so cheap down here in Oz, and besides they can only use 1/2 the 900 Mhz band as we have GSM phones in the rest... But I digress.. I guess from what has been written is that these phones are 1/2 duplex. This is reasonable since they are 900 not 900/2400 models. Also I would guess they are not attempting to transmit and receive at the same time... Mobiles need a big frequency seperation to do this... Therefore I would gress that both ends operate in the same band... Assuming a base station(A) and a mobile(B)... over time I would guess the transmission pattern would be A B A B A B A B A B A B A B AAA BBB AAA BBB AAA BBB AAA BBB That is the base transmits packets and then some way the mobile is told to transmit packets. Since these phones are mobile I am going to make another assumption... The timing is based on time, not a command which says you can transmit now... If it was and this got corrupted the system would fail... Ok.. Now some assumptions... From the TAPR SS radio we have a slot time where the radio is transmitting of 10 MSec. Well not quite transmitting... We have a TxRx or RxTx time of 1 mSec. Then I am assuming that 1/2 this 10 mSec is being used for data so that the other 1/2 can be used for transmission delay... During this 5 MSec we would be transmitting 20 Msec of Digitised Voice (Well, if Qualcomm digitizes 20 mSec of voice in their phones then I may as well use this figure). Now, The base station transmits 5 mSec of data to the mobile at the beginning of it's slot... It takes some time to get there... Once it gets there it listens. Once it has finished listening when the base has finished transmitting, it then transmits... What does this mean... If the base station takes longer than about 5 mSec in propergation then the mobile will be transmitting and not receiving. OK, so why won't the timing just adjust itself a but further.... It will but there is a hard limit.... Now looking at the phone itself... 4000 feet... Lets convert that into real units.... about 1219.2 meters. But how long is 1219.2 meters? Well, light travels about 300 Meters in 1 mSec, therefore it is about 4.064 MSec in the transmission path... Looking back at my calculations I noted that 5 mSec was about my guess of the limit on propergation. This comes to 1500 Meters or 4921 feet. Oops. I forgot the tx/rx time... That makes it almost exactly 4000 feet. So unfortunately unless this product is well engineered to allow longer distances I would guess that it is actually limited to the 4000 feet deep in firmware... Doing that makes it easier to reduce interference caused by people adding a linear :-) darryl --------- Darryl Smith, VK2TDS POBox 169 Ingleburn NSW 2565 Australia Mobile Number 0412 929 634 [+61 4 12 929 634 International] EMAIL: Darryl@radio-active.net.au [www.radio-active.net.au coming soon] --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sun Mar 12 08:25:47 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA25766 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:25:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: OHAPRS@pop.oh.verio.com Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:26:17 +0000 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Doug Bade Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz - A Hard distance Limit? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.20000312141528.00967cc0@pop.oh.verio.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk my recollection on rf propagation velocity is more like 1 microsecond per 1000 ft.... actually .186 miles in 1usec.. , I just checked my radar endorsement docs.. I beleive light and RF both propagate at this speed. doug At 05:39 PM 3/12/00 +1100, you wrote: >G'Day... > >These phones are not quite so cheap down here in Oz, and besides they can >only use 1/2 the 900 Mhz band as we have GSM phones in the rest... But I >digress.. > >I guess from what has been written is that these phones are 1/2 duplex. This >is reasonable since they are 900 not 900/2400 models. Also I would guess >they are not attempting to transmit and receive at the same time... Mobiles >need a big frequency seperation to do this... Therefore I would gress that >both ends operate in the same band... > >Assuming a base station(A) and a mobile(B)... over time I would guess the >transmission pattern would be > A B A B A B A B A B A B A B > AAA BBB AAA BBB AAA BBB AAA BBB > >That is the base transmits packets and then some way the mobile is told to >transmit packets. Since these phones are mobile I am going to make another >assumption... The timing is based on time, not a command which says you can >transmit now... If it was and this got corrupted the system would fail... > >Ok.. Now some assumptions... From the TAPR SS radio we have a slot time >where the radio is transmitting of 10 MSec. Well not quite transmitting... >We have a TxRx or RxTx time of 1 mSec. Then I am assuming that 1/2 this 10 >mSec is being used for data so that the other 1/2 can be used for >transmission delay... During this 5 MSec we would be transmitting 20 Msec of >Digitised Voice (Well, if Qualcomm digitizes 20 mSec of voice in their >phones then I may as well use this figure). > >Now, The base station transmits 5 mSec of data to the mobile at the >beginning of it's slot... It takes some time to get there... Once it gets >there it listens. Once it has finished listening when the base has finished >transmitting, it then transmits... What does this mean... > >If the base station takes longer than about 5 mSec in propergation then the >mobile will be transmitting and not receiving. OK, so why won't the timing >just adjust itself a but further.... It will but there is a hard limit.... > >Now looking at the phone itself... 4000 feet... Lets convert that into real >units.... about 1219.2 meters. But how long is 1219.2 meters? Well, light >travels about 300 Meters in 1 mSec, therefore it is about 4.064 MSec in the >transmission path... > >Looking back at my calculations I noted that 5 mSec was about my guess of >the limit on propergation. This comes to 1500 Meters or 4921 feet. Oops. I >forgot the tx/rx time... That makes it almost exactly 4000 feet. > >So unfortunately unless this product is well engineered to allow longer >distances I would guess that it is actually limited to the 4000 feet deep in >firmware... Doing that makes it easier to reduce interference caused by >people adding a linear :-) > >darryl >--------- >Darryl Smith, VK2TDS POBox 169 Ingleburn NSW 2565 Australia >Mobile Number 0412 929 634 [+61 4 12 929 634 International] >EMAIL: Darryl@radio-active.net.au [www.radio-active.net.au coming soon] > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: DOUG@CLECOM.COM >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 13 00:28:42 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id AAA03008 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:28:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Darryl Smith" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz - A Hard distance Limit? Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:32:02 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001a01bf8cb5$d876d960$32ae2acb@dell.radio-active.net.au> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk G'Day... OK - I stand corrected.... I got mixed up between uSec and mSec... However there is a hard limit to the calling... This is why GSM has a limit of 35 miles (or 70 miles for special base stations). Anyway with the figures I used I guess the limit would be 1500 Km... I suppose that you would experience power problems before this limit... Darryl --------- Darryl Smith, VK2TDS POBox 169 Ingleburn NSW 2565 Australia Mobile Number 0412 929 634 [+61 4 12 929 634 International] EMAIL: Darryl@radio-active.net.au [www.radio-active.net.au coming soon] --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 13 08:09:50 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA27436 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:09:49 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:08:17 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] Re: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000313090817.0090e150@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >I hope to add some gain antennas, put it on the towers and use it for a >repeater link about 6 miles apart. From what I read in the FCC R&O of >November 1999, I just have to add an ID in the audio chain and it's a >bidirectional link. It has 2-way page and intercom functions that I may >have to key up or mute as needed, but I think I have a low cost entry to >the SS world. > >What say you? (If "appliance user" is an insult in your vocabulary, >please just keep it to yourself and don't clog the SIG with it.) Nothing wrong with using an "appliance for somethin it wasn't intended for. I use a modified SS phone to access my vhf/uhf remote base. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 13 10:24:11 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA02715 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:24:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Dave D'Epagnier" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:18:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Could one of these units be for remote control of a ham radio station? I've got a station located about 12 miles line of sight from my home. I'd like to be able to achieve HF rig control as well as transmit and receive SSB from the remote site. How would this be achieved? Kachina uses Freewave modems for this which cost about $1500/ea. A bit out of my price range. --Dave ---------- From: k2pat@webtv.net [SMTP:k2pat@webtv.net] Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 1:36 PM To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Subject: [ss] Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz The AT&T Model 9515 is/was available from Egghead.com for about $69 + $12 s&h. It's 900 MHz FHSS, presumably less than 1 Watt, and really goes the 4000 feet it claims. I hope to add some gain antennas, put it on the towers and use it for a repeater link about 6 miles apart. From what I read in the FCC R&O of November 1999, I just have to add an ID in the audio chain and it's a bidirectional link. It has 2-way page and intercom functions that I may have to key up or mute as needed, but I think I have a low cost entry to the SS world. What say you? (If "appliance user" is an insult in your vocabulary, please just keep it to yourself and don't clog the SIG with it.) --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: daved@ctilidar.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 13 11:42:25 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA05577 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:42:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:40:54 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000313124054.00990bd0@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 09:18 AM 3/13/00 -0700, you wrote: >Could one of these units be for remote control of a ham radio station? I've >got a station located about 12 miles line of sight from my home. I'd like to >be able to achieve HF rig control as well as transmit and receive SSB from >the remote site. How would this be achieved? I emulated a phone line for the cordless phone base. I used a couple of op-amps to make a 2-wire to 4-wire converter (really a 1-wire plus ground to 2-wire plus ground) and simulated the phone line current with a large inductor and a current limiting resistor. I detected the base "off hook" with an opto. Ham rig keying is achieved with a 1024Hz tone osc. in the handset that is enabled with a "ptt" switch that I put in place of the headphone jack that was conviently located where my thumb went. A 1024Hz tone decoder in the base logic keyed the ham rig. The tone was notched out of the audio with an active notch filter to keep it from being heard. A touch tone decoder and a home-brew micro took care of ID, timing and freq. control of the ham rig. DTMF for control also had to have a 256Hz tone (512Hz/1024Hz selected with a slide switch that used to be a ringer switch) so Touch Tones sent thru the remote base didn't cause unexpected control functions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 13 12:23:47 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA07263 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:23:46 -0600 (CST) Errors-To: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:23:26 -0500 From: Jeff King Organization: Aero Data Systems, Inc. X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38CD321D.8A44F018@aerodata.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dave D'Epagnier wrote: > Kachina uses Freewave modems > for this which cost about $1500/ea. A bit out of my price range. No, Kachina is CHARGING you $1500/ea for Freewave modems. You can get the FreeWave boards for $700each in qty 1. This is a FreeWave modem without the plastic case. Still not cheap, but half the price of what Kachina is trying to charge you. -Jeff --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 13 12:31:53 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA07618 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:31:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Eric S. Johansson" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [ss] interesting paper Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:30:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <030f01bf8d1a$40bb3520$0300a8c0@alfee> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk http://www.media.mit.edu/~r/academics/PhD/ProSem.html Introduction Moore's Law has kept its promise: digital computing systems are plentiful, capable, and cheap. Memory and storage systems have followed a similar curve. In 1997, you can purchase over a gigabyte of disk storage for less than two hours of consulting fees. But digital networks, the nervous system that connects computer systems together, haven't kept pace. Wired networks are unsuitable for mobile devices, cable and connector costs render them impractical for interconnecting hundreds or thousands of devices. A high cost per node inhibits pervative deployment of wireless networks. And even if the cost issue were solved, current wireless network architectures become congested when faced with hundreds or thousands of nodes in one area. Before ubiquitous computing as envisioned by Mark Weiser ([Weis91]) can become reality, the challenges of ubiquitous networking must first be addressed. But today's computer networks are too expensive, too power-hungry, and to coarse grained to attain ubiquity&emdash;a new network architecture is needed. My thesis will present a novel model for networking appropriate for the task of interconnecting hundreds or thousands of everyday objects. The network will be characterized as wireless, low-cost, low-power, and self-organizing. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 13 12:42:08 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA08009 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:42:07 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Eric S. Johansson" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:40:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <032a01bf8d1b$97fe6bd0$0300a8c0@alfee> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy McMillan" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:41 PM Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? > I happen to believe that wireless should go the way of the Internet: > Multipath peer-to-peer network of intelligent repeaters (routers). I like > the idea of variable power, decoupled send/recieve FHSS spreading stuff > proposed by Tim Shepard in 1996. > > Has everyone read that stuff? It basically designs the near/far problem > into FHSS spreading codes as part of the protocol. It trades off latency > of multiple-hops for the ability to scale tranciever density per area. The > more dense the concentration of transcievers, the more aggregate > bandwidth. There should be Shepard PDF's on the TAPR web site. I forwarded > them months ago... found it... Tim Shepard, KD1KY. Tim's MIT PhD thesis, Decentralized Channel Management in Scalable Multihop Spread-Spectrum Packet Radio Networks, is an excellent work. Tim found that there is essentially no limit to how large and dense a packet radio network can be as long as it uses spread spectrum, transmitter power control and minimum-energy routing. ftp://ftp.lcs.mit.edu/pub/lcs-pubs/tr.outbox/MIT-LCS-TR-670.ps.gz --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 13 17:49:03 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA20277 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:49:02 -0600 (CST) From: N8xlr@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:45:51 EST Subject: [ss] Re: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi I wonder if the schematic would be available from Howard Sams ? I'll try to find out. I am in the process of retiring and will save your comm on hard copy and get back to you. Thanks for the info N8xlr . The handle is Lew Kuhn in Ohio tks,73 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 13 18:28:22 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id SAA21594 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:28:19 -0600 (CST) From: "Patrick Van Torre" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: ss digest: March 12, 2000 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 01:01:30 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Ter info; ge ziet dat er toch nog krakken rondlopen die over 't een en 't ander eens verder denken.... By the way, sorry dat ik het laatst weer eens vergeten was op 70cm; om het goed te maken zal ik u 10 potten met vliegen en propellors prepareren :-) Hoe was 't voor de rest met de contest? Groeten Pat ---------- > Van: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest > Aan: ss digest recipients > Onderwerp: ss digest: March 12, 2000 > Datum: maandag 13 maart 2000 7:02 > > TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Digest for Sunday, March 12, 2000. > > 1. RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz - A Hard distance Limit? > 2. RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz - A Hard distance Limit? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz - A Hard distance Limit? > From: "Darryl Smith" > Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:39:39 +1100 > X-Message-Number: 1 > > G'Day... > > These phones are not quite so cheap down here in Oz, and besides they can > only use 1/2 the 900 Mhz band as we have GSM phones in the rest... But I > digress.. > > I guess from what has been written is that these phones are 1/2 duplex. This > is reasonable since they are 900 not 900/2400 models. Also I would guess > they are not attempting to transmit and receive at the same time... Mobiles > need a big frequency seperation to do this... Therefore I would gress that > both ends operate in the same band... > > Assuming a base station(A) and a mobile(B)... over time I would guess the > transmission pattern would be > A B A B A B A B A B A B A B > AAA BBB AAA BBB AAA BBB AAA BBB > > That is the base transmits packets and then some way the mobile is told to > transmit packets. Since these phones are mobile I am going to make another > assumption... The timing is based on time, not a command which says you can > transmit now... If it was and this got corrupted the system would fail... > > Ok.. Now some assumptions... From the TAPR SS radio we have a slot time > where the radio is transmitting of 10 MSec. Well not quite transmitting... > We have a TxRx or RxTx time of 1 mSec. Then I am assuming that 1/2 this 10 > mSec is being used for data so that the other 1/2 can be used for > transmission delay... During this 5 MSec we would be transmitting 20 Msec of > Digitised Voice (Well, if Qualcomm digitizes 20 mSec of voice in their > phones then I may as well use this figure). > > Now, The base station transmits 5 mSec of data to the mobile at the > beginning of it's slot... It takes some time to get there... Once it gets > there it listens. Once it has finished listening when the base has finished > transmitting, it then transmits... What does this mean... > > If the base station takes longer than about 5 mSec in propergation then the > mobile will be transmitting and not receiving. OK, so why won't the timing > just adjust itself a but further.... It will but there is a hard limit.... > > Now looking at the phone itself... 4000 feet... Lets convert that into real > units.... about 1219.2 meters. But how long is 1219.2 meters? Well, light > travels about 300 Meters in 1 mSec, therefore it is about 4.064 MSec in the > transmission path... > > Looking back at my calculations I noted that 5 mSec was about my guess of > the limit on propergation. This comes to 1500 Meters or 4921 feet. Oops. I > forgot the tx/rx time... That makes it almost exactly 4000 feet. > > So unfortunately unless this product is well engineered to allow longer > distances I would guess that it is actually limited to the 4000 feet deep in > firmware... Doing that makes it easier to reduce interference caused by > people adding a linear :-) > > darryl > --------- > Darryl Smith, VK2TDS POBox 169 Ingleburn NSW 2565 Australia > Mobile Number 0412 929 634 [+61 4 12 929 634 International] > EMAIL: Darryl@radio-active.net.au [www.radio-active.net.au coming soon] > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz - A Hard distance Limit? > From: Doug Bade > Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:26:17 +0000 > X-Message-Number: 2 > > my recollection on rf propagation velocity is more like 1 microsecond per > 1000 ft.... actually .186 miles in 1usec.. , I just checked my radar > endorsement docs.. I beleive light and RF both propagate at this speed. doug > > At 05:39 PM 3/12/00 +1100, you wrote: > >G'Day... > > > >These phones are not quite so cheap down here in Oz, and besides they can > >only use 1/2 the 900 Mhz band as we have GSM phones in the rest... But I > >digress.. > > > >I guess from what has been written is that these phones are 1/2 duplex. This > >is reasonable since they are 900 not 900/2400 models. Also I would guess > >they are not attempting to transmit and receive at the same time... Mobiles > >need a big frequency seperation to do this... Therefore I would gress that > >both ends operate in the same band... > > > >Assuming a base station(A) and a mobile(B)... over time I would guess the > >transmission pattern would be > > A B A B A B A B A B A B A B > > AAA BBB AAA BBB AAA BBB AAA BBB > > > >That is the base transmits packets and then some way the mobile is told to > >transmit packets. Since these phones are mobile I am going to make another > >assumption... The timing is based on time, not a command which says you can > >transmit now... If it was and this got corrupted the system would fail... > > > >Ok.. Now some assumptions... From the TAPR SS radio we have a slot time > >where the radio is transmitting of 10 MSec. Well not quite transmitting... > >We have a TxRx or RxTx time of 1 mSec. Then I am assuming that 1/2 this 10 > >mSec is being used for data so that the other 1/2 can be used for > >transmission delay... During this 5 MSec we would be transmitting 20 Msec of > >Digitised Voice (Well, if Qualcomm digitizes 20 mSec of voice in their > >phones then I may as well use this figure). > > > >Now, The base station transmits 5 mSec of data to the mobile at the > >beginning of it's slot... It takes some time to get there... Once it gets > >there it listens. Once it has finished listening when the base has finished > >transmitting, it then transmits... What does this mean... > > > >If the base station takes longer than about 5 mSec in propergation then the > >mobile will be transmitting and not receiving. OK, so why won't the timing > >just adjust itself a but further.... It will but there is a hard limit.... > > > >Now looking at the phone itself... 4000 feet... Lets convert that into real > >units.... about 1219.2 meters. But how long is 1219.2 meters? Well, light > >travels about 300 Meters in 1 mSec, therefore it is about 4.064 MSec in the > >transmission path... > > > >Looking back at my calculations I noted that 5 mSec was about my guess of > >the limit on propergation. This comes to 1500 Meters or 4921 feet. Oops. I > >forgot the tx/rx time... That makes it almost exactly 4000 feet. > > > >So unfortunately unless this product is well engineered to allow longer > >distances I would guess that it is actually limited to the 4000 feet deep in > >firmware... Doing that makes it easier to reduce interference caused by > >people adding a linear :-) > > > >darryl > >--------- > >Darryl Smith, VK2TDS POBox 169 Ingleburn NSW 2565 Australia > >Mobile Number 0412 929 634 [+61 4 12 929 634 International] > >EMAIL: Darryl@radio-active.net.au [www.radio-active.net.au coming soon] > > > > > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to ss as: DOUG@CLECOM.COM > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > > --- > > END OF DIGEST > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: pvantorre@freegates.be > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 06:59:30 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id GAA28633 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 06:59:29 -0600 (CST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAo/pz0TwYW4byVoGT1vJz6KY4A7ACFFIxEpB6OjVJ+8D0kjuuH37i+4Pj From: k2pat@webtv.net (Pat Howard) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:57:15 -0500 (EST) To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] CORDLESS PHONE FHSS Message-ID: In-Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest" 's message of Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:00:52 -0600 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <13820-38CE372B-11380@storefull-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I'm glad the speed of light has just been corrected so that the hard limit goes away. However, the half duplex theory sounds correct so there may still be a limit imposed by timing limitations. I haven't modified the unit yet, so I don't know if I'll get the 6 miles until I add gain antennas or find an appropriately high spot to test from. I replied earlier to one of the posts, but not to the group, that this phone has 2-way page and intercom. I won't have to simulate a phone line, but just push the page/intercom button and acknowledge the intercom light with a similar push. This protocol is simple enough to do with discreet parts. It also has a backup battery so it should not have power problems in long term uses. Although the speed of light is the same in Oz (only the direction of rotation changes during the flush), the FCC Spread Spectrum rules don't apply. Conflicting with GSM can be a real problem and I would suspect that you can't buy a 900 MHz cordless phone there. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 07:56:32 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA00794 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:56:30 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:54:23 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000314085423.00a342f0@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >X-PH: V4.4@bnl.gov >From: "Hunter, Bob" >To: "'rjs@bnl.gov'" >Subject: RE: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:36:55 -0600 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) > >Ron, >Do you have a schematic of your "Telephone Line Simulator" that you could >post? >Thanks, >Bob aa0fg > >Robert S. Hunter PE >Senior Principal Development Engineer >Alliant Techsystems Inc. >Telephone: 612.931.7619 >Facsimile: 612.931.6512 > >> ---------- >> From: Ron Schroeder[SMTP:rjs@bnl.gov] >> Reply To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group >> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 11:40 AM >> To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group >> Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz >> >> At 09:18 AM 3/13/00 -0700, you wrote: >> >Could one of these units be for remote control of a ham radio station? >> I've >> >got a station located about 12 miles line of sight from my home. I'd like >> to >> >be able to achieve HF rig control as well as transmit and receive SSB >> from >> >the remote site. How would this be achieved? >> >> I emulated a phone line for the cordless phone base. I used a couple of >> op-amps to make a 2-wire to 4-wire converter (really a 1-wire plus ground >> to 2-wire plus ground) and simulated the phone line current with a large >> inductor and a current limiting resistor. I detected the base "off hook" >> with an opto. Ham rig keying is achieved with a 1024Hz tone osc. in the >> handset that is enabled with a "ptt" switch that I put in place of the >> headphone jack that was conviently located where my thumb went. A 1024Hz >> tone decoder in the base logic keyed the ham rig. The tone was notched >> out >> of the audio with an active notch filter to keep it from being heard. A >> touch tone decoder and a home-brew micro took care of ID, timing and freq. >> control of the ham rig. DTMF for control also had to have a 256Hz tone >> (512Hz/1024Hz selected with a slide switch that used to be a ringer >> switch) >> so Touch Tones sent thru the remote base didn't cause unexpected control >> functions. >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> -------- >> Ron Schroeder >> WD8CDH >> E. E. S. >> wd8cdh@bnl.gov >> rjs@bnl.gov >> ron@112motors.com >> 516 344-4561 Day >> 516 286-5677 Nite >> after April 1st. use area code 631 >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to ss as: BOB_HUNTER@ATK.COM >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org >> > ---------------------- Ron Schroeder Brookhaven National Lab Building 911A Upton NY 11793 rjs@bnl.gov 516 344-4561 after April 1st use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 07:58:48 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA00905 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:58:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:55:19 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000314085519.00a59df0@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >X-PH: V4.4@bnl.gov >From: "Dave D'Epagnier" >To: "'Ron Schroeder'" >Subject: RE: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:21:11 -0700 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) > >Ok great, I'm getting excited about this. I hadn't realized that touch tone >phones have a group of low tones and a group of high tones. I'm going to >have to get up to speed the frequency of those tones. Those are simply the >tones I hear when I push the 0-9 buttons right? I also hadn't realized that >speech has a distinct group of frequency content above and below 1024 Hz. As >far as ID goes, when the remote station ID's how is that done? Is it a >synthesized voice like you hear on repeaters, or something simpler? > >Thanks for your time, > >--DAve > > ---------- > From: Ron Schroeder [SMTP:rjs@bnl.gov] > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 2:15 PM > To: Dave D'Epagnier > Subject: RE: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz > > At 11:53 AM 3/13/00 -0700, you wrote: > >Ron, excellent. A couple of questions though. > > > >1. Is the reason why you use a 1024Hz tone for the PTT function >(which > >has to be notched out later) because you only have access to the >analog > >audio input/output of this SS transceiver? Seems like that's right >in the > >middle of the voice spectrum. I guess all one can do is send audio >tones for > >control, though. > >2. What is the ID function, and timing for? > > > > 1. a. 1024 is between the low group and the high group of touch >tones. > b. 1024 is between the lower spectral group and the upper >spectral group > of speech sounds. > c. Filtering it out effects both at a very minimum. > > 2. Since with the antenna gain, the cordless base is outside of part >15 > rules, the signal from the base to me needs to be ID'd. The signal >from > the cordless phone to the base is ID'd whenever I ID because it is >carrying > my voice. Timing shut things off if I run out of range etc. > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > Ron Schroeder > WD8CDH > E. E. S. > wd8cdh@bnl.gov > rjs@bnl.gov > ron@112motors.com > 516 344-4561 Day > 516 286-5677 Nite > after April 1st. use area code 631 > ---------------------- Ron Schroeder Brookhaven National Lab Building 911A Upton NY 11793 rjs@bnl.gov 516 344-4561 after April 1st use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 07:58:48 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA00906 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:58:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:54:44 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000314085444.00a58920@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >X-PH: V4.4@bnl.gov >From: "Dave D'Epagnier" >To: "'Ron Schroeder'" >Subject: RE: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:53:12 -0700 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) > >Ron, excellent. A couple of questions though. > >1. Is the reason why you use a 1024Hz tone for the PTT function (which >has to be notched out later) because you only have access to the analog >audio input/output of this SS transceiver? Seems like that's right in the >middle of the voice spectrum. I guess all one can do is send audio tones for >control, though. >2. What is the ID function, and timing for? > >Thanks, >Dave > > ---------- > From: Ron Schroeder [SMTP:rjs@bnl.gov] > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 10:41 AM > To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz > > At 09:18 AM 3/13/00 -0700, you wrote: > >Could one of these units be for remote control of a ham radio >station? I've > >got a station located about 12 miles line of sight from my home. >I'd like to > >be able to achieve HF rig control as well as transmit and receive >SSB from > >the remote site. How would this be achieved? > > I emulated a phone line for the cordless phone base. I used a >couple of > op-amps to make a 2-wire to 4-wire converter (really a 1-wire plus >ground > to 2-wire plus ground) and simulated the phone line current with a >large > inductor and a current limiting resistor. I detected the base "off >hook" > with an opto. Ham rig keying is achieved with a 1024Hz tone osc. in >the > handset that is enabled with a "ptt" switch that I put in place of >the > headphone jack that was conviently located where my thumb went. A >1024Hz > tone decoder in the base logic keyed the ham rig. The tone was >notched out > of the audio with an active notch filter to keep it from being >heard. A > touch tone decoder and a home-brew micro took care of ID, timing and >freq. > control of the ham rig. DTMF for control also had to have a 256Hz >tone > (512Hz/1024Hz selected with a slide switch that used to be a ringer >switch) > so Touch Tones sent thru the remote base didn't cause unexpected >control > functions. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > Ron Schroeder > WD8CDH > E. E. S. > wd8cdh@bnl.gov > rjs@bnl.gov > ron@112motors.com > 516 344-4561 Day > 516 286-5677 Nite > after April 1st. use area code 631 > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: daved@ctilidar.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > ---------------------- Ron Schroeder Brookhaven National Lab Building 911A Upton NY 11793 rjs@bnl.gov 516 344-4561 after April 1st use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 08:04:52 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA01115 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:04:51 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:03:17 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000314090317.00a5d9e0@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >> As far as ID goes, when the remote station ID's how is that done? Is it a >>synthesized voice like you hear on repeaters, or something simpler? >> >>Thanks for your time, >> >>--DAve I use CW at 20wpm. I used to use a voice recorder that I gutted from a greeting card. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 08:08:44 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA01311 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:08:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Dave D'Epagnier" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:03:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Excuse me if this question has been answered at nausium in the past, but what good does ID-ing in spread spectrum do? Is anybody other than my intended receiver really going to be able to identify my transmission if I do that? Surely I'm not supposed to go narrow band to do this, right? What all is involved in ID-ing besides giving my call sign? Am I supposed to go narrow band (which I can't do with a FHSS telephone) and give the spreading code also?? --Dave ---------- From: Ron Schroeder [SMTP:rjs@bnl.gov] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 7:03 AM To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz >> As far as ID goes, when the remote station ID's how is that done? Is it a >>synthesized voice like you hear on repeaters, or something simpler? >> >>Thanks for your time, >> >>--DAve I use CW at 20wpm. I used to use a voice recorder that I gutted from a greeting card. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: daved@ctilidar.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 08:25:42 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA01791 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:25:41 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:24:02 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000314092402.00a57100@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id IAA01791 At 07:03 AM 3/14/00 -0700, you wrote: >Excuse me if this question has been answered at nausium in the past, but >what good does ID-ing in spread spectrum do? Is anybody other than my >intended receiver really going to be able to identify my transmission if I >do that? Surely I'm not supposed to go narrow band to do this, right? What >all is involved in ID-ing besides giving my call sign? Am I supposed to go >narrow band (which I can't do with a FHSS telephone) and give the spreading >code also?? > >--Dave > §97.119 Station identification. (a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every ten minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any call sign not authorized to the station. (b) The call sign must be transmitted with an emission authorized for the transmitting channel in one of the following ways: (1) By a CW emission. When keyed by an automatic device used only for identification, the speed must not exceed 20 words per minute; (2) By a phone emission in the English language. Use of a standard phonetic alphabet as an aid for correct station identification is encouraged; I think part (b) means that ss voice or CW is ok. ---------------------- Ron Schroeder Brookhaven National Lab Building 911A Upton NY 11793 rjs@bnl.gov 516 344-4561 after April 1st use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 08:40:43 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA02251 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:40:42 -0600 (CST) From: Lee810@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:38:32 EST Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <62.1b069ac.25ffa8e8@aol.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id IAA02251 In a message dated 3/14/00 7:09:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, DAVED@ctilidar.com writes: > Excuse me if this question has been answered at nausium in the past, but > what good does ID-ing in spread spectrum do? Is anybody other than my > intended receiver really going to be able to identify my transmission if I > do that? Surely I'm not supposed to go narrow band to do this, right? What > all is involved in ID-ing besides giving my call sign? Am I supposed to go > narrow band (which I can't do with a FHSS telephone) and give the spreading > code also?? It's for the courtesy of any government employees who may be listening in on your QSO. The spreading codes must be those approved by the government in accordance with FCC regulations. Lee Devlin, KØLEE (K0LEE) Greeley, CO http://members.aol.com/lee810/ham.html --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 08:56:24 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA02804 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:56:21 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:47:22 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000314094722.009784d0@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id IAA02804 A >It's for the courtesy of any government employees who may be listening in on >your QSO. The spreading codes must be those approved by the government in >accordance with FCC regulations. > >Lee Devlin, KØLEE (K0LEE) >Greeley, CO >http://members.aol.com/lee810/ham.html I think that the below rule is just about all that is left of the ss technical requirements since the simplification. -Ron WD8CDH §97.311 SS emission types. (a) SS emission transmissions by an amateur station are authorized only for communications between points within areas where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC and between an area where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC and an amateur station in another country that permits such communications. SS emission transmissions must not be used for the purpose of obscuring the meaning of any communication. (b) A station transmitting SS emissions must not cause harmful interference to stations employing other authorized emissions, and must accept all interference caused by stations employing other authorized emissions. (c) When deemed necessary by a District Director to assure compliance with this Part, a station licensee must: (1) Cease SS emission transmissions; (2) Restrict SS emission transmissions to the extent instructed; and (3) Maintain a record, convertible to the original information (voice, text, image, etc.) of all spread spectrum communications transmitted. (d) The transmitter power must not exceed 100 W under any circumstances. If more than 1 W is used, automatic transmitter control shall limit output power to that which is required for the communication. This shall be determined by the use of the ratio, measured at the receiver, of the received energy per user data bit (Eb) to the sum of the received power spectral densities of noise (N0) and co-channel interference (I0). Average transmitter power over 1 W shall be automatically adjusted to maintain an Eb/(N0 + I0) ratio of no more than 23 dB at the intended receiver. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 09:01:03 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA02965 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:01:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Dave D'Epagnier" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:49:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id JAA02965 Can someone point me to an online source of the FCC rules on this? I want to find out what the allowable spreading codes are. I'm wondering if the same rules apply to cordless (low EIRP) phones as higher power SS transceivers. Also, why do manufactures of FHSS modems and phones claim secure communications if they can only use FCC approved codes? Couldn't anyone with a FHSS scanner (are these even made?) listen in on communications using these devices? --Dave ---------- From: Lee810@aol.com [SMTP:Lee810@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 7:39 AM To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz In a message dated 3/14/00 7:09:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, DAVED@ctilidar.com writes: > Excuse me if this question has been answered at nausium in the past, but > what good does ID-ing in spread spectrum do? Is anybody other than my > intended receiver really going to be able to identify my transmission if I > do that? Surely I'm not supposed to go narrow band to do this, right? What > all is involved in ID-ing besides giving my call sign? Am I supposed to go > narrow band (which I can't do with a FHSS telephone) and give the spreading > code also?? It's for the courtesy of any government employees who may be listening in on your QSO. The spreading codes must be those approved by the government in accordance with FCC regulations. Lee Devlin, KØLEE (K0LEE) Greeley, CO http://members.aol.com/lee810/ham.html --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: daved@ctilidar.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 09:55:47 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA04766 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:55:45 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert A. Buaas" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:44:16 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <00031407532305.13363@uv.wireless.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > Can someone point me to an online source of the FCC rules on this? I want to > find out what the allowable spreading codes are. I'm wondering if the same > rules apply to cordless (low EIRP) phones as higher power SS transceivers. > Also, why do manufactures of FHSS modems and phones claim secure > communications if they can only use FCC approved codes? Couldn't anyone with > a FHSS scanner (are these even made?) listen in on communications using > these devices? There is no longer any restriction on spreading codes in the Amateur Service. Part 15.247, which regulates license-free operation such as cordless phones, sets minimum limits on process gain (which translates to the number of hopping channels used before the sequence repeats for FH systems). No code sequences are specified. Makers of part-15 devices must get type-approval, which involves a showing that the 15.247 requirements are met. Claims of privacy are seldom made based on the use of SS technology. All the units I've seen have data scramblers separate from the SS spreaders. This is NOT high-grade encryption, but just enough scrambling so that they can claim privacy if dragged into court (the key length is very short) best regards to all/bob K6KGS --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 10:26:26 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA05839 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:26:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Dave D'Epagnier" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:21:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Thanks, Bob and others. It sure seems like it would be difficult to listen in on an unscrambled SS conversation if the spreading code is not known, so ID-ing does seem pretty frivolous. --Dave ---------- From: Robert A. Buaas [SMTP:buaas@wireless.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 8:44 AM To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz > Can someone point me to an online source of the FCC rules on this? I want to > find out what the allowable spreading codes are. I'm wondering if the same > rules apply to cordless (low EIRP) phones as higher power SS transceivers. > Also, why do manufactures of FHSS modems and phones claim secure > communications if they can only use FCC approved codes? Couldn't anyone with > a FHSS scanner (are these even made?) listen in on communications using > these devices? There is no longer any restriction on spreading codes in the Amateur Service. Part 15.247, which regulates license-free operation such as cordless phones, sets minimum limits on process gain (which translates to the number of hopping channels used before the sequence repeats for FH systems). No code sequences are specified. Makers of part-15 devices must get type-approval, which involves a showing that the 15.247 requirements are met. Claims of privacy are seldom made based on the use of SS technology. All the units I've seen have data scramblers separate from the SS spreaders. This is NOT high-grade encryption, but just enough scrambling so that they can claim privacy if dragged into court (the key length is very short) best regards to all/bob K6KGS --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: daved@ctilidar.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 10:36:27 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA06202 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:36:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:34:46 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] RE: Cordless Phone FHSS 900 MHz In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000314113446.00978700@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 09:21 AM 3/14/00 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks, Bob and others. It sure seems like it would be difficult to listen >in on an unscrambled SS conversation if the spreading code is not known, so >ID-ing does seem pretty frivolous. > >--Dave > Frivolous but required. But then how many repeaters ID their links from recievers? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 12:52:31 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA11577 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:52:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Dave D'Epagnier" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Remote rig operation Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:47:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Does this sound like it would work for remote station control? 1. Get a cheap FHSS cordless phone. Open it up and tap into the microphone and speaker connections. 2. Attach the mic and speaker connections to a PC sound card output and input. 3. Do the link calculations and add a high gain antenna and amplifier if necessary to each end. 4. On the command station end of the link, write a rig control program using Labview, Visual Basic or whatever that would send high frequency audio tones 4-6KHz range for the rig commands out to the sound card. For voice transmission, low pass filter the microphone at about 2.5KHz and send directly to the sound card output. 5. On the remote station end, have another computer with sound card to interface to the FHSS base station. Have a low pass filter in line with the audio output to the rig microphone input. Have a high pass filter in line with the audio to the PC sound card input. 6. Write a program for receiving audio tones and converting them to rig commands. Pump that into the rig remote control jack. 7. Reverse the senario for audio and rig info coming in the opposite direction. I'd have to fake the base set into "thinking" it was connected to a phone line, or use the intercom mode as someone else suggested. I wonder what the unspread data bandwidth is of cordless phone. How many bps do they operate at? What am I missing? --Dave --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 14 14:01:29 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA14637 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:01:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:59:43 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] Re: Remote rig operation In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000314145943.00a9a1e0@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 11:47 AM 3/14/00 -0700, you wrote: >Does this sound like it would work for remote station control? > >1. Get a cheap FHSS cordless phone. Open it up and tap into the >microphone and speaker connections. >2. Attach the mic and speaker connections to a PC sound card output and >input. >3. Do the link calculations and add a high gain antenna and amplifier >if necessary to each end. >4. On the command station end of the link, write a rig control program >using Labview, Visual Basic or whatever that would send high frequency audio >tones 4-6KHz range for the rig commands out to the sound card. For voice >transmission, low pass filter the microphone at about 2.5KHz and send >directly to the sound card output. >5. On the remote station end, have another computer with sound card to >interface to the FHSS base station. Have a low pass filter in line with the >audio output to the rig microphone input. Have a high pass filter in line >with the audio to the PC sound card input. >6. Write a program for receiving audio tones and converting them to rig >commands. Pump that into the rig remote control jack. >7. Reverse the senario for audio and rig info coming in the opposite >direction. > >I'd have to fake the base set into "thinking" it was connected to a phone >line, or use the intercom mode as someone else suggested. >I wonder what the unspread data bandwidth is of cordless phone. How many bps >do they operate at? What am I missing? > > >--Dave It would work but writing a driver for LabView to see the sound card won't be easy. You could decode tones by dooing a FFT on the soundcards data. It would be better to use the touchtone keys from the cordless phones handset and decode them with a $5.00 DTMF decoder chip at the remote base. Most ss phones don't generate the tones in the handset. They send data to the base and the base generates the tones. You should be able to get 10 or 20 digits/second. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 15 06:52:50 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id GAA02189 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 06:52:49 -0600 (CST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAll3GOtJuP4JaI7LNJFocTwdXa8ACFQCwyAWqTv54GYSBgVSdkJAMe8CbJw== From: k2pat@webtv.net (Pat Howard) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:51:40 -0500 (EST) To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] CORDLESS PHONE FHSS Message-ID: In-Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest" 's message of Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:01:19 -0600 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <15940-38CF875C-220@storefull-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dave, Don't just add amplifiers. Pre-amps are OK, but anything over 1 Watt on the transmitter needs active power control. Since putting an ID on any 1 of 50 frequencies is frivolous, the FCC deleted that requirement. I suspect that if your transmitter gets tracked down as an offender, you'd better have a station license attached per the rules. Pat --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 15 07:25:46 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA03628 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 07:25:42 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:24:06 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] Re: CORDLESS PHONE FHSS and ID In-Reply-To: References: <"TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000315082406.00aa4250@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id HAA03628 At 07:51 AM 3/15/00 -0500, you wrote: >Dave, >Don't just add amplifiers. Pre-amps are OK, but anything over 1 Watt on >the transmitter needs active power control. > >Since putting an ID on any 1 of 50 frequencies is frivolous, the FCC >deleted that requirement. I suspect that if your transmitter gets >tracked down as an offender, you'd better have a station license >attached per the rules. > > Pat I still think that ss ham needs to be ID'd unless the radio has no modification of RF or antenna and meets part 15. You may not be able to copy it with a scanner but I think this still applies.: §97.119 Station identification. (a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every ten minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any call sign not authorized to the station. I think that this means that even ss must be ID'd. I could not find anything that said that a ss station must ID an any emmission mode other than ss. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 16 06:52:17 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id GAA06119 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 06:52:16 -0600 (CST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQNIsb0IoHiBV4D3IxIDB8XWE16SwIUKNOWD0fVAp18MIx0Mvzw7YXmE6U= From: k2pat@webtv.net (Pat Howard) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:47:41 -0500 (EST) To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] CORDLESS PHONE FHSS ID Message-ID: In-Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest" 's message of Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:00:50 -0600 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <7242-38D0D7ED-4087@storefull-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Ron, The ID must still be there if you modify the phone for Ham use, including any wires or antennas that take it out of the manufacturers Part 15 approval. The ID requirement was said here and in the R&O so I didn't repeat it. What's new is that it can be ID'd in any fashion, which I take to mean in-band SS, not a separate frequency (only 1 of the 50 or more being used). All the other methods proposed by TAPR are presumably good also. Pat --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 16 07:45:26 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA07716 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 07:45:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: hansen@oak.ait.fredonia.edu Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:55:50 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: John Hansen Subject: [ss] Re: CORDLESS PHONE FHSS ID In-Reply-To: References: <"TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000316085435.01b682c0@oak.ait.fredonia.edu> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 07:47 AM 3/16/00 -0500, you wrote: >Ron, >The ID must still be there if you modify the phone for Ham use, >including any wires or antennas that take it out of the manufacturers >Part 15 approval. The ID requirement was said here and in the R&O so I >didn't repeat it. What's new is that it can be ID'd in any fashion, >which I take to mean in-band SS, not a separate frequency (only 1 of the >50 or more being used). All the other methods proposed by TAPR are >presumably good also. > Pat Do these phones meet the FCC requirements for automatic power control? Perhaps the power output is so low that they avoid these requirements? John W2FS --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 16 09:47:55 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA11528 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:47:54 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:46:35 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] Re: CORDLESS PHONE FHSS ID In-Reply-To: References: <"TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000316104635.00a47aa0@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >Do these phones meet the FCC requirements for automatic power >control? Perhaps the power output is so low that they avoid these >requirements? > >John W2FS All consumer phones are less than 1W. Some do have power control to extend battery life. They are low enough power that they don't need power control to meet the rules. Most ss phones are 250mW or less (The limit is 1000mW). Most non-ss phones are 50mW or less. None of the 2.4GHz phones that I have seen have the range of a 900MHz ss phone (except in the minds of marketing). I don't know if hooking up a cordless phone (with no modifications) to a ham rig instead of the phone system thru its RJ11 plug invalidates its part 15 requirements therefore requiring ID so I ID it anyway. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 16 10:28:39 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA13193 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:28:39 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:22:25 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] Re: CORDLESS PHONE FHSS ID In-Reply-To: References: <"TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000316112225.00a57aa0@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk modifications) to a ham rig instead of the phone system thru its RJ11 plug >invalidates its part 15 requirements therefore requiring ID so I ID it anyway. I think that the following means that if a ham modifies a part 15 device in a manner that doesn't make it exceed its origional power it is still part 15 compliant. TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION PART 15--RADIO FREQUENCY DEVICES--Table of Contents Subpart A--General Sec. 15.23 Home-built devices. (a) Equipment authorization is not required for devices that are not marketed, are not constructed from a kit, and are built in quantities of five or less for personal use. (b) It is recognized that the individual builder of home-built equipment may not possess the means to perform the measurements for determining compliance with the regulations. In this case, the builder is expected to employ good engineering practices to meet the specified technical standards to the greatest extent practicable. The provisions of Sec. 15.5 apply to this equipment. By the way, 902-928 ss less than 50 chan. =250mW, 50 or more chan.=1W. Either can have up to 6DBi of antenna gain. So if we keep them off of the beams it looks like we don't have to ID them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 16 18:53:00 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id SAA00889 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:52:59 -0600 (CST) From: N2HDW@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:51:24 EST Subject: [ss] Re: Remote rig operation To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <8a.1ae93e5.2602db8c@aol.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi Dave, I have been retrofiting electronic equipment for many years and have thought about what you described for some time. The question is what phone should I use. I would like to find an inexpensive spread spectrum phone that I can obtain some kind of documentation on. I would also like to picka phone that will be around for a while so that once I learn how to do the mod I can buy more of them. Does anyone out there have some Ideas on this. 73 Barry N2HDW --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 05:23:20 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id FAA05219 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:23:18 -0600 (CST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAmbwBCsj416sRJFZl51j8okqXF2ACFGXHa38WRMnprD0L8AT2Iy0wUCF1 From: k2pat@webtv.net (Pat Howard) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 06:20:49 -0500 (EST) To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] CORDLESS PHONE FHSS 900MHZ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest" 's message of Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:01:52 -0600 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <998-38D21511-39@storefull-143.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Barrry, The reason I bought this phone and alerted the group is that egghead.com was selling these off at $69 plus 12 shipping and I believe the good ones which advertise 4000 ft. range will not be available in the future. Vtech just bought the manufacturer's consumer division from Lucent. This phone is the AT&T Model 9515, developed by Bell Labs when it was AT&T, now Lucent. These are tech weenies, maxing out the range. Even though VTech makes many 900 MHz phones at low cost, there may be no market for a 4000' phone when 2.4 GHz can claim better performance, in marketing terms anyway. I had bought a similar 4000' AT&T model several years ago, so there may be more than 1 AT&T model left. None of the other 900 FHSS phone makers claim 4000', just 4 times the usual range (4x50' is not much). I intend to modify both the base and the handset. The handset doesn't even have a headset jack so it must be modified for use as a repaeter link. I ran the RF loss budget (4000', 5', 5', 900MHz) to be about 143 dB, a realistic but strong signal for a base station application. To maintain that strength for 6 miles, I would need to go up the towers maybe 20 to 50 feet, and get 10 to 20 dB of antenna gain (more than 6 dBi if I count the feed loss). I would rather mount external antennas than mount the phone way up the tower and attempt to weatherproof it. There is the chance that one could use the internal antennas, but then omni coverage is not what I want either. The other features that makes this model worth modifying are the battery backup in the base unit, and the 2-way page which leads to a simple protocol. I could use the RJJ-11 on the base, but then I might need to build a ring generator to use the protocol. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 07:25:26 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA07524 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:25:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:24:04 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] Re: Remote rig operation In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000317082404.00a65280@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 07:51 PM 3/16/00 EST, you wrote: >Hi Dave, > >I have been retrofiting electronic equipment for many years and have thought >about what you described for some time. The question is what phone should I >use. I would like to find an inexpensive spread spectrum phone that I can >obtain some kind of documentation on. I would also like to picka phone that >will be around for a while so that once I learn how to do the mod I can buy >more of them. Does anyone out there have some Ideas on this. > >73 Barry N2HDW Cordless phones are like computers. They both have a green "obsolete" indicator on the front. The real small $89 AT&T ss phone worked for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 07:51:56 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA08095 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 07:51:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Dave D'Epagnier" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Remote rig operation Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 06:45:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Barry, I bought mine at Radio Shack, but I agree with Ron, what's here today will be gone in a year or so. Hopefully, next years model won't be too difficult to figure out. I want to put mine on a scope and a spectrum analyzer and find out a few things: - What is the signal (baseband) bandwidth it can handle ie; how many kbps can it support? - Is there FEC? What type? - What is the tx/rx latency? - What kind of overhead (preamble or what ever) does it consume? - How many chips does it do? - What is the spread bandwidth? - What is the output power? -Dave ---------- From: N2HDW@aol.com [SMTP:N2HDW@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:51 PM To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Subject: [ss] Re: Remote rig operation Hi Dave, I have been retrofiting electronic equipment for many years and have thought about what you described for some time. The question is what phone should I use. I would like to find an inexpensive spread spectrum phone that I can obtain some kind of documentation on. I would also like to picka phone that will be around for a while so that once I learn how to do the mod I can buy more of them. Does anyone out there have some Ideas on this. 73 Barry N2HDW --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: daved@ctilidar.com To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 09:51:29 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA12101 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:51:26 -0600 (CST) From: srbible@gate.net To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:42:19 PST Subject: [ss] Email from a colleague (Steven Bible) Message-ID: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002301942151130GPWS5@gpws5.gordonpub.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The following email message contains information in a product recommended to you by Steven Bible(srbible@gate.net). The product is currently featured on Wireless Design & Development Online. Here is the recommended item: Spread Spectrum Chipset Consisting of the Am79C440 direct sequence spread spectrum (DSSS) controller chip and the Am79RF440 radio transceiver chip, the new chipset from Advanced Micro Devices allows customers to create a variety of products using a common chipset by programming the onboard ROM to enable different feature sets. The AM79C440 DSSS controller performs protocol, data formatting, audio processing and peripheral functions for a DSSS handset or base station application. It features an on-chip 8051-class microcontroller, a flexible RF interface and a receive signal strength indicator. The Am79RF440 radio transceiver chip integrates all of the transmit and receive functions required in a US900 DSSS digital cordless transceiver architecture, operating in the 902 - 928 MHz ISM band.

The AMD direct sequence spread spectrum chipset was the answer to a market need for differentiation. In a market segment where the only differentiation factors were industrial design and packaging, AMD aimed at what customers wanted the most, feature differentiation through programmability of design. The program had customers excited and many of them joined a beta phase.

The added pressure of having customers in line raised the importance of delivering flawlessly and on time. Also independent of the perceived advantages of the chipset, the success of the product was going to be measured in terms of how it performed against the competition. The end product was a programmable solution competitive in terms of voice quality, cost and range. On February 16, 1999 this product was the key to a technology exchange between AMD and the DSP Group. The DSP Group continues the legacy of this technology with design wins and future releases
Advanced Micro Devices P.O. Box 3453 One AMD Place Sunnyvale, CA 94088-3453 See the item at: http://www.wirelessdesignmag.com/exec/relpgm.exe?rptid=SHOWPR?ACCT=0029415?ISSUE=0003?RELTYPE=TW?PRODLETT=A?PRODCODE=D0620 Visit Wireless Design & Development Online at: http://www.wirelessdesignmag.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 12:28:16 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA17134 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:28:16 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Hunter, Bob" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Part 97 Download Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:26:21 -0600 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <2E785084EBC0D111999900608C14A509035D165F@exchangemn2.atk.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I tried downloading the Spread Spectrum rules from: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_98/47cfr97_98.html This site is clearly out of date (includes old shift register definition). Does anyone know where I can download a current version of Part 97? Thanks, Bob aa0fg Robert S. Hunter PE Senior Principal Development Engineer Alliant Techsystems Inc. Telephone: 612.931.7619 Facsimile: 612.931.6512 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 12:50:47 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA17777 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:50:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: kirk@mmail Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:49:20 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: "Richard A. Kirkpatrick" Subject: [ss] Link to FCC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000317134905.00a5a850@mmail> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Try this http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/ 73 Dick N1AA --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 12:52:48 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA17871 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:52:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:50:00 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] Re: Part 97 Download In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000317135000.00ab8350@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id MAA17871 At 12:26 PM 3/17/00 -0600, you wrote: >I tried downloading the Spread Spectrum rules from: > http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_98/47cfr97_98.html > >This site is clearly out of date (includes old shift register definition). >Does anyone know where I can download a current version of Part 97? > >Thanks, >Bob aa0fg > > >Robert S. Hunter PE >Senior Principal Development Engineer >Alliant Techsystems Inc. >Telephone: 612.931.7619 >Facsimile: 612.931.6512 I don't know what happened to that site. On the 14th I downloaded this: §97.311 SS emission types. (a) SS emission transmissions by an amateur station are authorized only for communications between points within areas where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC and between an area where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC and an amateur station in another country that permits such communications. SS emission transmissions must not be used for the purpose of obscuring the meaning of any communication. (b) A station transmitting SS emissions must not cause harmful interference to stations employing other authorized emissions, and must accept all interference caused by stations employing other authorized emissions. (c) When deemed necessary by a District Director to assure compliance with this Part, a station licensee must: (1) Cease SS emission transmissions; (2) Restrict SS emission transmissions to the extent instructed; and (3) Maintain a record, convertible to the original information (voice, text, image, etc.) of all spread spectrum communications transmitted. (d) The transmitter power must not exceed 100 W under any circumstances. If more than 1 W is used, automatic transmitter control shall limit output power to that which is required for the communication. This shall be determined by the use of the ratio, measured at the receiver, of the received energy per user data bit (Eb) to the sum of the received power spectral densities of noise (N0) and co-channel interference (I0). Average transmitter power over 1 W shall be automatically adjusted to maintain an Eb/(N0 + I0) ratio of no more than 23 dB at the intended receiver. It sure isn't what is there today. If you check my posts around the same date, you may find other parts of Part 97 that you need. I posted some parts on ss IDing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 13:07:14 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id NAA18520 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:07:13 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:05:31 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] Re: Part 97 Download In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000317140531.00901100@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 01:50 PM 3/17/00 -0500, you wrote: >At 12:26 PM 3/17/00 -0600, you wrote: >>I tried downloading the Spread Spectrum rules from: >> http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_98/47cfr97_98.html >> >>This site is clearly out of date (includes old shift register definition). >>Does anyone know where I can download a current version of Part 97? >> >>Thanks, >>Bob aa0fg >> >> >>Robert S. Hunter PE >>Senior Principal Development Engineer >>Alliant Techsystems Inc. >>Telephone: 612.931.7619 >>Facsimile: 612.931.6512 Try this one: http://www.arrl.org/field/regulations/news/part97/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 16:00:27 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA24550 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:00:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Hunter, Bob" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Link to FCC Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:55:30 -0600 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <2E785084EBC0D111999900608C14A509035D1661@exchangemn2.atk.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Unfortunately this doesn't seem to include part 97. Robert S. Hunter PE Senior Principal Development Engineer Alliant Techsystems Inc. Telephone: 612.931.7619 Facsimile: 612.931.6512 > ---------- > From: Richard A. Kirkpatrick[SMTP:kirk@bose.com] > Reply To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:49 PM > To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Subject: [ss] Link to FCC > > Try this > http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/ > 73 Dick N1AA > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: BOB_HUNTER@ATK.COM > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 16:01:03 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA24614 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:01:03 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Hunter, Bob" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Part 97 Download Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:56:47 -0600 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <2E785084EBC0D111999900608C14A509035D1662@exchangemn2.atk.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Seems peculiar that this site would revert to an old version. I can't imagine what they are up to! Robert S. Hunter PE Senior Principal Development Engineer Alliant Techsystems Inc. Telephone: 612.931.7619 Facsimile: 612.931.6512 > ---------- > From: Ron Schroeder[SMTP:rjs@bnl.gov] > Reply To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:50 PM > To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Subject: [ss] Re: Part 97 Download > > At 12:26 PM 3/17/00 -0600, you wrote: > >I tried downloading the Spread Spectrum rules from: > > http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_98/47cfr97_98.html > > > >This site is clearly out of date (includes old shift register > definition). > >Does anyone know where I can download a current version of Part 97? > > > >Thanks, > >Bob aa0fg > > > > > >Robert S. Hunter PE > >Senior Principal Development Engineer > >Alliant Techsystems Inc. > >Telephone: 612.931.7619 > >Facsimile: 612.931.6512 > > > I don't know what happened to that site. On the 14th I downloaded this: > > §97.311 SS emission types. > > > (a) SS emission transmissions by an amateur station are authorized only > for > communications between points within > areas where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC and between an > area > where the amateur service is > regulated by the FCC and an amateur station in another country that > permits > such communications. SS emission > transmissions must not be used for the purpose of obscuring the meaning of > any communication. > > (b) A station transmitting SS emissions must not cause harmful > interference > to stations employing other authorized > emissions, and must accept all interference caused by stations employing > other authorized emissions. > > (c) When deemed necessary by a District Director to assure compliance with > this Part, a station licensee must: > > (1) Cease SS emission transmissions; > > (2) Restrict SS emission transmissions to the extent instructed; and > > (3) Maintain a record, convertible to the original information > (voice, > text, image, etc.) of all spread spectrum > communications transmitted. > > (d) The transmitter power must not exceed 100 W under any circumstances. > If > more than 1 W is used, automatic > transmitter control shall limit output power to that which is required for > the communication. This shall be > determined by the use of the ratio, measured at the receiver, of the > received energy per user data bit (Eb) to the > sum of the received power spectral densities of noise (N0) and co-channel > interference (I0). Average transmitter > power over 1 W shall be automatically adjusted to maintain an Eb/(N0 + I0) > ratio of no more than 23 dB at the > intended receiver. > > > It sure isn't what is there today. If you check my posts around the same > date, you may find other parts of Part 97 that you need. I posted some > parts on ss IDing. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > -------- > Ron Schroeder > WD8CDH > E. E. S. > wd8cdh@bnl.gov > rjs@bnl.gov > ron@112motors.com > 516 344-4561 Day > 516 286-5677 Nite > after April 1st. use area code 631 > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: BOB_HUNTER@ATK.COM > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 16:56:30 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA26598 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:56:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:54:28 -0700 From: Bob Nielsen To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Part 97 Download Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Bob_Hunter@ATK.COM on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 03:56:47PM -0600 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp01.primenet.com id PAA29850 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <20000317155428.A4239@bob.localnet> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tapr.org id QAA26598 The notice on the http://www.fcc.gov/wtb/rules.html says all of the Title 47 rules are dated October 1998. Perhaps they only incorporate new changes into the complete documents at widespread intervals. On Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 03:56:47PM -0600, Hunter, Bob wrote: > Seems peculiar that this site would revert to an old version. I can't > imagine what they are up to! > > Robert S. Hunter PE > Senior Principal Development Engineer > Alliant Techsystems Inc. > Telephone: 612.931.7619 > Facsimile: 612.931.6512 > > > ---------- > > From: Ron Schroeder[SMTP:rjs@bnl.gov] > > Reply To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:50 PM > > To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > > Subject: [ss] Re: Part 97 Download > > > > At 12:26 PM 3/17/00 -0600, you wrote: > > >I tried downloading the Spread Spectrum rules from: > > > http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_98/47cfr97_98.html > > > > > >This site is clearly out of date (includes old shift register > > definition). > > >Does anyone know where I can download a current version of Part 97? > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Bob aa0fg > > > > > > > > >Robert S. Hunter PE > > >Senior Principal Development Engineer > > >Alliant Techsystems Inc. > > >Telephone: 612.931.7619 > > >Facsimile: 612.931.6512 > > > > > > I don't know what happened to that site. On the 14th I downloaded this: > > > > §97.311 SS emission types. > > > > > > (a) SS emission transmissions by an amateur station are authorized only > > for > > communications between points within > > areas where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC and between an > > area > > where the amateur service is > > regulated by the FCC and an amateur station in another country that > > permits > > such communications. SS emission > > transmissions must not be used for the purpose of obscuring the meaning of > > any communication. > > > > (b) A station transmitting SS emissions must not cause harmful > > interference > > to stations employing other authorized > > emissions, and must accept all interference caused by stations employing > > other authorized emissions. > > > > (c) When deemed necessary by a District Director to assure compliance with > > this Part, a station licensee must: > > > > (1) Cease SS emission transmissions; > > > > (2) Restrict SS emission transmissions to the extent instructed; and > > > > (3) Maintain a record, convertible to the original information > > (voice, > > text, image, etc.) of all spread spectrum > > communications transmitted. > > > > (d) The transmitter power must not exceed 100 W under any circumstances. > > If > > more than 1 W is used, automatic > > transmitter control shall limit output power to that which is required for > > the communication. This shall be > > determined by the use of the ratio, measured at the receiver, of the > > received energy per user data bit (Eb) to the > > sum of the received power spectral densities of noise (N0) and co-channel > > interference (I0). Average transmitter > > power over 1 W shall be automatically adjusted to maintain an Eb/(N0 + I0) > > ratio of no more than 23 dB at the > > intended receiver. > > > > > > It sure isn't what is there today. If you check my posts around the same > > date, you may find other parts of Part 97 that you need. I posted some > > parts on ss IDing. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > -------- > > Ron Schroeder > > WD8CDH > > E. E. S. > > wd8cdh@bnl.gov > > rjs@bnl.gov > > ron@112motors.com > > 516 344-4561 Day > > 516 286-5677 Nite > > after April 1st. use area code 631 > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: BOB_HUNTER@ATK.COM > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: NIELSEN@PRIMENET.COM > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > -- Bob Nielsen, N7XY (RN2) nielsen@primenet.com Tucson, AZ DM42nh QRP-L #1985 SOC #77 http://www.primenet.com/~nielsen --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 20:28:05 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA03591 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:28:02 -0600 (CST) From: N2HDW@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:23:53 EST Subject: [ss] Re: CORDLESS PHONE FHSS 900MHZ To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi Pat, Thanks for the answer, It appears that there are many experimenters out there that share our interest in modifying these phones for wireless applications. I have a tendency to ignore the claims that the retailers make about consumer electronic equipment but the 4000 ft spec. appears to have alerted you to this device as being unique and that is a good thing. I checked the egghead web page for the 9515 phone and it was not one of the models that they were currently selling. There were some much higher like 9550 models, do you think they are similar to what you are familiar with ? I disagree with your statement that there may be no market for a 4000 ft phone in the future. Historically range, has always been an important aspect of popular cordless phones. I am also very interested in the new 2.4 gHz stuff but I have trouble believing that it will have enhanced range over the 900 mHz stuff. The only advantage that I see on the 2.4 gHz band is that it is a clean band. For the most part the FCC has not licensed any of the garbage that is on the 902 to 928 mHz band so the noise floor should be considerably lower but how long will that last. The propagation at 2.4 gHz as compared to 900 mHz for this application must be dramatically reduced. My application for these phones is slightly different than yours but I disagree with your premise that it is easier to run feed lines 50 ft up the tower as compared to water proofing the cordless phone. You can purchase sealed waterproof enclosures in steel, aluminum, or stainless steel that will easily handle this phone for under $150. This gives you a major advantage in your RF loss budget and you do not have to purchase a long run of expensive hard line. As an ITS engineer I use a lot of these waterproof boxes so if you need more detailed info just let me know. Thanks again for the info. 73 Barry N2HDW --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 17 23:29:41 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id XAA08711 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:29:40 -0600 (CST) From: Barry McLarnon VE3JF Message-Id: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:28:15 -0500 (EST) To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: CORDLESS PHONE FHSS 900MHZ In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <200003180528.AAA29940@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk N2HDW@aol.com wrote: > The only advantage that I see on the 2.4 gHz band is that it is a clean band. > For the most part the FCC has not licensed any of the garbage that is on the > 902 to 928 mHz band so the noise floor should be considerably lower but how > long will that last. Not long, I'm afraid. 2.4 GHz ain't what it used to be. I've been running a couple of DSSS links (WaveLAN) on 2.4 GHz since August 1998. Both are on 10 mile line-of-sight paths over mainly urban terrain, to a common access point. The access point has a panel antenna (16 dBi gain) with 45 degree beamwidth to cover both paths, and the other ends have those ubiquitous grid parabolics (23 dBi gain) from Conifer. When I first set up the links, I put a spectrum analyzer on the access point antenna, and found the 2.4 GHz band to be pretty quiet - just some transient stuff near the high end. The WaveLANs, which I centered at 2422 MHz, worked well for a year and a half, but in recent weeks the performance of both links has deteriorated quite badly. I looked at the spectrum at the access point location again, and what a difference from '98! Put the analyzer on max hold for awhile to capture the hoppers and transient DS stuff, and the ISM band looks like wall-to-wall junk. Replacing the 16 dBi sectoral antenna with a 23 dBi parabolic got the links back to their former performance, but only for one link at a time, since they're too far apart in azimuth for the beamwidth of the higher gain antenna. Anyway, the bottom line is that, thanks to the proliferation of 802.11 and other ISM stuff, the noise floor at 2.4 GHz is rising steadily. BTW, I notice that Conifer was recently swallowed up by Andrew - bet those antennas won't be so cheap anymore... Barry -- Barry McLarnon VE3JF | bm@hydra.carleton.ca Ottawa Amateur Radio Club | bm@lynx.ve3jf.ampr.org Packet Working Group | http://hydra.carleton.ca --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Mar 18 08:34:58 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA07090 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:34:54 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rwmcgwier@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:33:01 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Robert McGwier Subject: [ss] VERY INTERESTING QAM ASIC!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.20000318090704.0093ad50@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I have no financial interest in Broadcom (except maybe in my mutual funds, managed by others). Looking for a cheap transceiver to do (say) 10 Mbps on the air? My company is in the process of buying 100 and paying $80 a piece, so I suspect we could get them for under $200 a piece. At this price, I can (and will) experiment with these on my own. What are they? http://www.broadcom.com Part number: BCM6020 "DSL" transceiver (baloney, it is a full QAM transceiver/packetizer, FEC encoder/decoder. The block diagram has me almost having an tech-gasm. The DSL and Cablemodem industry and digital TV industries are revolutionizing megabit rates QAM transceivers. Bob ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Mar 18 12:24:11 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA14764 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:24:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:19:50 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] Re: CORDLESS PHONE FHSS 900MHZ In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000318131950.009039d0@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Here is an interesting phone. It even has a removable antenna which I thought was against part 15. http://www.1cache.com/1cache/ensnpbx90ull.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Mar 18 14:37:14 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA19060 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:37:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:28:12 -0800 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Derek Lassen Subject: [ss] Re: VERY INTERESTING QAM ASIC!!! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000318122134.00ad4890@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This thing looks similar to the Stel2176 (Used to be Stanford Telecom, is now chipzilla(Intel)). Is it real? And available? If they make it work and produce it it could work wonders. I am currently working on project to use the Stel2176 on 10 GHz. At 09:33 AM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote: >I have no financial interest in Broadcom (except maybe in my mutual funds, >managed by others). > >Looking for a cheap transceiver to do (say) 10 Mbps on the air? My company >is in the process of buying 100 and paying $80 a piece, so I suspect we could >get them for under $200 a piece. At this price, I can (and will) experiment >with these on my own. What are they? > >http://www.broadcom.com > >Part number: BCM6020 "DSL" transceiver (baloney, it is a full QAM >transceiver/packetizer, FEC encoder/decoder. The block diagram has >me almost having an tech-gasm. > >The DSL and Cablemodem industry and digital TV industries are >revolutionizing megabit rates QAM transceivers. > >Bob > >----------------------------------------------------- >Click here for Free Video!! >http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: KN6TD@CLUBNET.NET >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Mar 18 16:20:36 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA22461 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 16:20:35 -0600 (CST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAuXGqqP2SNWndhm5g9b+dsxrDINcCFHqt9R5XEkkaeC518xsHdHoqy6pZ From: k2pat@webtv.net (Pat Howard) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:19:05 -0500 (EST) To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] CORDLES PHONE AT&T 9550 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest" 's message of Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:05:44 -0600 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <20218-38D400D9-5400@storefull-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Barry, I like distance on a cordless phone, but since nobody else advertises 4000', I didn't see a great rush to maximize the distance. >From the Egghead.com page follow the link and read the catalog info. If you can fine the AT&T link, it may show the claimed distance. It may also be 4000' or it may be a dud. Hold Egghead to their claims and if it says 4000' then you can possibly return it. I don't know that model, so let the buyer beware. The other hype I saw was a cordless phone with DIGITAL answerer. That slows down the shopping process too. 900 MHz may be protected from overuse by GSM blocking the sales in most of the world. Once Bluetooth and all the hopes for 2.4 uses fill out, it may become less friendly to Hams than 900MHz. All this is just conjecture, both may be mostly useable in the future but not as wide open as in the past. Los Angeles wanted to use massive quantities of 2.4 video transmitters at high power, but the FCC denied their petition. I also saw in the FCC database numerous licensees from 902 to 928 MHz on every hill within 50 miles of my home. I'm not sure how that happens in a ham band and how this affects my cordless phone plans. As for the phone in a box on a tower, I suppose a plastic radome would work just fine with the antenna inside. I would need a directional gain antenna inside and that would eliminate coax losses. Since these are shared tower spaces, the box could not eat up gads of space and would need to be very rugged. Pat --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Mar 18 16:35:02 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA22944 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 16:35:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:34:25 +0100 From: Luis Yanes Organization: Escuela Superior de Ingenieros de Sevilla MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: VERY INTERESTING QAM ASIC!!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38D40471.1F8B@bart.us.es> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Robert McGwier wrote: > > I have no financial interest in Broadcom (except maybe in my mutual funds, > managed by others). > > Looking for a cheap transceiver to do (say) 10 Mbps on the air? My company > is in the process of buying 100 and paying $80 a piece, so I suspect we could > get them for under $200 a piece. At this price, I can (and will) experiment > with these on my own. What are they? > > http://www.broadcom.com > > Part number: BCM6020 "DSL" transceiver (baloney, it is a full QAM > transceiver/packetizer, FEC encoder/decoder. The block diagram has > me almost having an tech-gasm. > > The DSL and Cablemodem industry and digital TV industries are > revolutionizing megabit rates QAM transceivers. The datasheet at http://www.broadcom.com/pdf/BCM6020.pdf as all others are protected by a password. :-( Fortunately there is more chips with free info to work with. -- 73's de Luis mail: melus@bart.us.es Ampr: eb7gwl.ampr.org http://www.esi.us.es/~melus/ <- Homebrewed Hardware Projects with PCBs --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sat Mar 18 20:01:59 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA29542 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:01:58 -0600 (CST) Delivered-To: fixup-ss@lists.tapr.org@fixme Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 19:02:34 -0700 From: "Dave D'Epagnier" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] A few Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38D43539.B18605AA@uswest.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk 1. Can anybody tell me approximately how many members are on this mailing list? 2. And again, what ever happened the Spread Spectrum Scene Magazine? tnx --Dave --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sun Mar 19 11:37:35 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA11573 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:37:33 -0600 (CST) From: N2HDW@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:35:56 EST Subject: [ss] (no subject) To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <72.22d0be0.260669fc@aol.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk To: Robert McGwier I also found the Broadcom device that you described to be protected by pass words ect. What do you mean by "on the air" The data that I saw on what was available to me on the Broadband web site appeared to be a DSL chip for hard wired data networks. Barry N2HDW --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sun Mar 19 13:56:48 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id NAA16563 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:56:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: kf7tp@mail.cybertrails.com Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:55:28 -0700 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Keith Justice Subject: [ss] Re: VERY INTERESTING QAM ASIC!!! In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.3.2.20000319125328.00abe920@mail.cybertrails.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 11:34 PM 3/18/00 +0100, you wrote: >Robert McGwier wrote: > >The datasheet at http://www.broadcom.com/pdf/BCM6020.pdf >as all others are protected by a password. :-( > >Fortunately there is more chips with free info to work with. >-- >73's de Luis I registered with them using "Amateur Radio KF7TP" as the business name, and got right in, no wait for human authorization. Keith Keith Justice, KF7TP 6759 Wagonwheel Lane Lakeside, AZ 85929 LL: 520-537-8657 Occ. in Mesa, AZ: 480-461-8687 kf7tp@cybertrails.com kf7tp@kf7tp.ampr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Sun Mar 19 20:43:35 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA01677 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:43:33 -0600 (CST) Delivered-To: fixup-ss@lists.tapr.org@fixme Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:48:22 -0700 From: "Dave D'Epagnier" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: (no subject) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38D59176.844EE8E7@uswest.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Yeah, that's what I was thinking. What does that have to do with spread spectrum? It looks like another modem chip. Dave K0QE N2HDW@aol.com wrote: > To: Robert McGwier > > I also found the Broadcom device that you described to be protected by pass words ect. What do you mean by "on the air" The data that I saw on what was available to me on the Broadband web site appeared to be a DSL chip for hard wired data networks. > > Barry N2HDW > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: depagnier@uswest.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 20 03:17:59 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id DAA20981 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 03:17:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 01:09:06 -0800 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Derek Lassen Subject: [ss] Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000320010710.00cf39e0@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk What it has to do with spread spectrum is that the frequency is derived from a direct digital synthesizer which can hop over a wide range at fast rates and the rest of the chip can lock up on the data. At 07:48 PM 3/19/00 -0700, you wrote: >Yeah, that's what I was thinking. What does that have to do with spread >spectrum? It looks like another modem chip. > >Dave K0QE > >N2HDW@aol.com wrote: > > > To: Robert McGwier > > > > I also found the Broadcom device that you described to be protected by > pass words ect. What do you mean by "on the air" The data that I saw on > what was available to me on the Broadband web site appeared to be a DSL > chip for hard wired data networks. > > > > Barry N2HDW > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: depagnier@uswest.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: KN6TD@CLUBNET.NET >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 20 06:19:16 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id GAA04424 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:19:16 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rwmcgwier@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:18:02 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Robert McGwier Subject: [ss] Re: VERY INTERESTING QAM ASIC!!! In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.1.20000320071718.00937da0@mail.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Broadcom has !000+ in their inventory, which is about to go down by 100 ;-). They can produce more. Bob At 03:28 PM 03/18/2000 Saturday , you wrote: >This thing looks similar to the Stel2176 (Used to be Stanford Telecom, is >now chipzilla(Intel)). > >Is it real? And available? > >If they make it work and produce it it could work wonders. > >I am currently working on project to use the Stel2176 on 10 GHz. > >At 09:33 AM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote: >>I have no financial interest in Broadcom (except maybe in my mutual funds, >>managed by others). >> >>Looking for a cheap transceiver to do (say) 10 Mbps on the air? My company >>is in the process of buying 100 and paying $80 a piece, so I suspect we could >>get them for under $200 a piece. At this price, I can (and will) experiment >>with these on my own. What are they? >> >>http://www.broadcom.com >> >>Part number: BCM6020 "DSL" transceiver (baloney, it is a full QAM >>transceiver/packetizer, FEC encoder/decoder. The block diagram has >>me almost having an tech-gasm. >> >>The DSL and Cablemodem industry and digital TV industries are >>revolutionizing megabit rates QAM transceivers. >> >>Bob >> >>----------------------------------------------------- >>Click here for Free Video!! >>http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ >> >> >>--- >>You are currently subscribed to ss as: KN6TD@CLUBNET.NET >>To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: rwmcgwier@home.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 20 08:30:17 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA08103 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:30:16 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: brett@localhost Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:28:30 -0700 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Brett Glass Subject: [ss] ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000320072311.04156200@localhost> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Two US patent examiners have granted a Colorado inventor a 19-page patent on a "Hyper-space Antenna." The device is claimed to open a portal to a "new dimension," through which radio signals can supposedly travel faster than light. As a convenient side effect, the device is also said to make plants grow better. According to the patent, "All known radio transmissions use known models of time and space dimensions for sending the RF signal. The present invention has discovered the apparent existence of a new dimension capable of acting as a medium for RE [sic] signals. Initial benefits of penetrating this new dimension include sending RF signals faster than the speed of light, extending the effective distance of RF transmitters at the same power radiated, penetrating known RF shielding devices, and accelerating plant growth exposed to the by-product energy of the RF transmissions." The full text of the patent can be found at http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US06025810__&s_bsum=1 And now, my question. If I make use of this revolutionary new invention, are the ERP (effective radiated power) limits for signals sent through this new spatial dimension the same as for normal space? Or can I radiate more power, because the signal is not traversing normal space and therefore won't interfere with conventional RF devices? I don't know, but I'm sure the truth is out there.... --Brett Glass --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 20 09:02:17 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA09120 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:02:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [194.66.40.99] From: "REDBULL Youss" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] DESPREADING Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:59:29 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <20000320145929.48290.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dear All, Hello. I am new to this mailing list. I am workingon Spread spectrum project for my undergrad studies. I have been able to spread the signal successfully but am not acheiving the same signal in despreading, am using DS method and AM using the same code as used for spreading. Can anyone suggest any ideas. Thank You Joseph ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 20 09:58:10 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA11122 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:58:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Jose M. Valdes R. YV5LIX" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:54:36 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi Brett, I try the link that you suggested but it requires a password to be accessed. This is the message that I got from the server: DTWA000E: Net.Data detected an internal error [IBM][CLI Driver] SQL1404N Password expired. SQLSTATE=08004. Let's keep amateur radio alive 73/DX from Jose M. Valdes R. YV5LIX Six Club #864 yv5lix@yv5lix.org yv5lix@cantv.net FAX: 425-795-0655 (USA) http://www.yv5lix.org -----Mensaje original----- De: bounce-ss-14798@lists.tapr.org [mailto:bounce-ss-14798@lists.tapr.org]En nombre de Brett Glass Enviado el: Lunes, 20 de Marzo de 2000 10:29 a.m. Para: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Asunto: [ss] ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? Two US patent examiners have granted a Colorado inventor a 19-page patent on a "Hyper-space Antenna." The device is claimed to open a portal to a "new dimension," through which radio signals can supposedly travel faster than light. As a convenient side effect, the device is also said to make plants grow better. According to the patent, "All known radio transmissions use known models of time and space dimensions for sending the RF signal. The present invention has discovered the apparent existence of a new dimension capable of acting as a medium for RE [sic] signals. Initial benefits of penetrating this new dimension include sending RF signals faster than the speed of light, extending the effective distance of RF transmitters at the same power radiated, penetrating known RF shielding devices, and accelerating plant growth exposed to the by-product energy of the RF transmissions." The full text of the patent can be found at http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US06025810__&s_bsum=1 And now, my question. If I make use of this revolutionary new invention, are the ERP (effective radiated power) limits for signals sent through this new spatial dimension the same as for normal space? Or can I radiate more power, because the signal is not traversing normal space and therefore won't interfere with conventional RF devices? I don't know, but I'm sure the truth is out there.... --Brett Glass --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: yv5lix@yv5lix.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 20 10:18:43 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA11914 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:18:43 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: From: "Mitchell, Ed" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:13:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <8185C3875C91D311B8FA00805FA715E6668A39@xch-lbc-10.lgb.cal.boeing.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Try again, I made the connection. Ed Mitchell Program manager OSA-CBM Phantom Works The Boeing Company 562 982-6493 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jose M. Valdes R. YV5LIX [SMTP:yv5lix@cantv.net] > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 7:55 AM > To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? > > Hi Brett, I try the link that you suggested but it requires a password to > be > accessed. > > This is the message that I got from the server: > > DTWA000E: Net.Data detected an internal error [IBM][CLI Driver] SQL1404N > Password > expired. SQLSTATE=08004. > > Let's keep amateur radio alive > > 73/DX from Jose M. Valdes R. YV5LIX > Six Club #864 > > yv5lix@yv5lix.org > yv5lix@cantv.net > FAX: 425-795-0655 (USA) > > http://www.yv5lix.org > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: bounce-ss-14798@lists.tapr.org > [mailto:bounce-ss-14798@lists.tapr.org]En nombre de Brett Glass > Enviado el: Lunes, 20 de Marzo de 2000 10:29 a.m. > Para: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Asunto: [ss] ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? > > > Two US patent examiners have granted a Colorado inventor a 19-page patent > on a "Hyper-space Antenna." The device is claimed to open a portal to a > "new dimension," through which radio signals can supposedly travel faster > than light. As a convenient side effect, the device is also said to make > plants grow better. > > According to the patent, > > "All known radio transmissions use known models of time and space > dimensions for sending the RF signal. The present invention has discovered > the apparent existence of a new dimension capable of acting as a medium > for > RE [sic] signals. Initial benefits of penetrating this new dimension > include sending RF signals faster than the speed of light, extending the > effective distance of RF transmitters at the same power radiated, > penetrating known RF shielding devices, and accelerating plant growth > exposed to the by-product energy of the RF transmissions." > > The full text of the patent can be found at > > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US06025810__&s_bsum=1 > > And now, my question. If I make use of this revolutionary new invention, > are the ERP (effective radiated power) limits for signals sent through > this > new spatial dimension the same as for normal space? Or can I radiate more > power, because the signal is not traversing normal space and therefore > won't interfere with conventional RF devices? I don't know, but I'm sure > the truth is out there.... > > --Brett Glass > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: yv5lix@yv5lix.org > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: ED.MITCHELL@BOEING.COM > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 20 20:14:40 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA05697 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:14:39 -0600 (CST) Delivered-To: fixup-ss@lists.tapr.org@fixme Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:03:34 -0700 From: "Dave D'Epagnier" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: DESPREADING References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38D6CA66.170CFF7E@uswest.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Joseph, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of knowledge left on this reflector and not much interest in answering questions from newbies like us but I'll take a crack at it. Direct sequence is binary phase shift keying of the carrier and data in a pseudo random sequence. It can be done by phase modulating the carrier. It sounds like you've done this. Now to despread, you must apply the same pseudo random phase shifting in synchronization with the transmitted signal. That's the hard part, acquiring and locking to the carrier and synchronizing to it. Are you applying the despreading sequence synchronized to the spreading sequence? --Dave REDBULL Youss wrote: > Dear All, > > Hello. > I am new to this mailing list. I am workingon Spread spectrum project for my > undergrad studies. > I have been able to spread the signal successfully but am not acheiving the > same signal in despreading, am using DS method and AM using the same code as > used for spreading. > Can anyone suggest any ideas. > > Thank You > > Joseph > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: depagnier@uswest.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 20 20:16:40 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA05747 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:16:40 -0600 (CST) From: "Roger Rehr" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:11:45 -0500 Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001601bf92da$cf608bc0$0300a8c0@rrehr> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Ah, 4/1/.... 73 from Roger Rehr W3SZ ex-AA3QK ex-WA3JYM mailto:rrehr@epix.net FN20ah http://www.epix.net/~rrehr 2 Merrymount Road, Reading, PA 19609 610.670.8687 > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-ss-5302@lists.tapr.org > [mailto:bounce-ss-5302@lists.tapr.org]On Behalf Of Mitchell, Ed > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 11:14 AM > To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? > --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 20 20:34:21 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA06304 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:34:21 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: brett@localhost Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:33:06 -0700 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Brett Glass Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000320193153.040ecf00@localhost> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 07:11 PM 3/20/2000 , Roger Rehr wrote: >Ah, 4/1/.... The scary thing is that the patent really was issued. See for yourself: http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US06025810__&s_bsum=1 --Brett --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 20 21:09:01 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id VAA07769 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:09:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:07:07 -0700 From: Bob Nielsen To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from brett@lariat.org on Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 07:33:06PM -0700 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <20000320200707.D809@primenet.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 07:33:06PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:11 PM 3/20/2000 , Roger Rehr wrote: > > >Ah, 4/1/.... > > The scary thing is that the patent really was issued. See > for yourself: If it had been submitted to the Swiss patent office when Einstein worked there, he might have had some questions about it. It's been over 40 years since I took a course on patents, but didn't there used to be a requirement that an invention be "reduced to practice" before a patent could be issued? -- Bob Nielsen, N7XY (RN2) nielsen@primenet.com Tucson, AZ DM42nh QRP-L #1985 SOC #77 http://www.primenet.com/~nielsen --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 21 02:21:27 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id CAA25753 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 02:21:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:11:57 -0800 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Derek Lassen Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000321001048.00ac5100@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Its issued by the same country that thinks there is 999 years in a millenium... At 08:07 PM 3/20/00 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 07:33:06PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > > At 07:11 PM 3/20/2000 , Roger Rehr wrote: > > > > >Ah, 4/1/.... > > > > The scary thing is that the patent really was issued. See > > for yourself: > >If it had been submitted to the Swiss patent office when Einstein >worked there, he might have had some questions about it. > >It's been over 40 years since I took a course on patents, but didn't >there used to be a requirement that an invention be "reduced to >practice" before a patent could be issued? > > >-- >Bob Nielsen, N7XY (RN2) nielsen@primenet.com >Tucson, AZ DM42nh QRP-L #1985 SOC #77 http://www.primenet.com/~nielsen > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: KN6TD@CLUBNET.NET >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 21 07:55:15 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA12898 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:55:14 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Lyle Johnson" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:55:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <001d01bf933d$2c7de700$be07340a@tomswift> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > It's been over 40 years since I took a course on patents, but didn't > there used to be a requirement that an invention be "reduced to > practice" before a patent could be issued? I don't knwo if this was ever a requirement, but it hasn't been for a long time. The lack of this allows a normal person without a huge amount of capital to protect their IP. Like the Hollywood actress that invented spread spectrum, she only had to convince the P.O., not actually build one. Lyle --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 21 08:02:32 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA13197 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:02:31 -0600 (CST) Delivered-To: fixup-ss@lists.tapr.org@fixme Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:08:48 -0700 From: "Dave D'Epagnier" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: DESPREADING References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38D7826F.51BCEBA4@uswest.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Joseph, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of knowledge left on this reflector and not much interest in answering questions from newbies like us but I'll take a crack at it. Direct sequence is binary phase shift keying of the carrier and data in a pseudo random sequence. It can be done by phase modulating the carrier. It sounds like you've done this. Now to despread, you must apply the same pseudo random phase shifting in synchronization with the transmitted signal. That's the hard part, acquiring and locking to the carrier and synchronizing to it. Are you applying the despreading sequence synchronized to the spreading sequence? --Dave REDBULL Youss wrote: > Dear All, > > Hello. > I am new to this mailing list. I am workingon Spread spectrum project for my > undergrad studies. > I have been able to spread the signal successfully but am not acheiving the > same signal in despreading, am using DS method and AM using the same code as > used for spreading. > Can anyone suggest any ideas. > > Thank You > > Joseph > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: depagnier@uswest.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 21 08:04:37 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA13304 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:04:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [194.66.47.74] From: "REDBULL Youss" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: DESPREADING Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:02:29 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <20000321140229.82471.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Dave, thanks for a prompt reply. yes i am applying the same sequence as used for spreading. But i guess there are other problems. Can you recommend other sources of information. Thanks Joseph ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 21 08:19:13 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA13856 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:19:12 -0600 (CST) Delivered-To: fixup-ss@lists.tapr.org@fixme Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:19:00 -0700 From: "Dave D'Epagnier" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: DESPREADING References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38D784D4.A556C340@uswest.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Joseph, the despreading sequence needs to be the same and also SYNCHRONIZED with the spreading sequence. One source is the ARRL Spread Spectrum Sourcebook. There's all kinds of examples in there for DSSS. --Dave REDBULL Youss wrote: > Dave, thanks for a prompt reply. yes i am applying the same sequence as used > for spreading. But i guess there are other problems. Can you recommend other > sources of information. > > Thanks > Joseph > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: depagnier@uswest.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 21 22:32:55 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA14193 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:32:54 -0600 (CST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAzEGXe+3NEXxXVC7+7baqthua8V0CFEVTcATaR+PeoT+YCv0KTJ+eyaAn From: k2pat@webtv.net (Pat Howard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:31:33 -0500 (EST) To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] EnGenius 900Mhz SN-900 Ultra Cordless Phone System Long Range EnGenius Message-ID: X-URL-Title: EnGenius 900Mhz SN-900 Ultra Cordless Phone System Long Range EnGenius Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <26329-38D84CA5-18741@storefull-147.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk http://www.surgeprotect.com/engenius.html --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 22 08:57:19 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id IAA16257 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:57:18 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:00:53 -0600 From: Steve Lampereur Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Organization: GBPPR - www.qsl.net/n9zia X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Observations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <38D8E024.C731F516@NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Finally some activity on this list. To bad nobody is really building anything. It seems to be all typical ham-hype.. talk about and maybe do it a few years later when the technology is outdated. Thats the problem, thats why we are always at least 20 years behind the real world. For anyone interested in an inexpensive wireless networking using part 15 wireless ethernet devices at greater distances here is a link to my well documented modifications. http://www.dct.com/~multiplx/wireless --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 22 13:49:06 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id NAA27388 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:49:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:48:21 -0600 From: Jeremy McMillan Organization: Chicago Board of Options Exchange X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38D92384.2F1D2190@cboe.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This was a joke on the Patent Office. It is proof that patent law cannot work the way we are implementing it. Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:11 PM 3/20/2000 , Roger Rehr wrote: > > >Ah, 4/1/.... > > The scary thing is that the patent really was issued. See > for yourself: > > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US06025810__&s_bsum=1 > > --Brett > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 22 14:07:24 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA28217 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:07:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:05:17 -0600 From: Jeremy McMillan Organization: Chicago Board of Options Exchange X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38D9277D.513915FA@cboe.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk So is there a future for Shephard's SS protocol in TAPR projects? The chip manufacturers should have plenty of product out there that would suffice. I believe Tim also has software to simulate the performance of such a network in different scenarios. I think the stuff is *golden*. "Eric S. Johansson" wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy McMillan" > To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:41 PM > Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? > > > I happen to believe that wireless should go the way of the Internet: > > Multipath peer-to-peer network of intelligent repeaters (routers). I like > > the idea of variable power, decoupled send/recieve FHSS spreading stuff > > proposed by Tim Shepard in 1996. > > > > Has everyone read that stuff? It basically designs the near/far problem > > into FHSS spreading codes as part of the protocol. It trades off latency > > of multiple-hops for the ability to scale tranciever density per area. The > > more dense the concentration of transcievers, the more aggregate > > bandwidth. There should be Shepard PDF's on the TAPR web site. I forwarded > > them months ago... > > found it... > > Tim Shepard, KD1KY. Tim's MIT PhD thesis, Decentralized Channel Management > in Scalable Multihop Spread-Spectrum Packet Radio Networks, is an excellent > work. Tim found that there is essentially no limit to how large and dense a > packet radio network can be as long as it uses spread spectrum, transmitter > power control and minimum-energy routing. > > ftp://ftp.lcs.mit.edu/pub/lcs-pubs/tr.outbox/MIT-LCS-TR-670.ps.gz > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 22 14:55:14 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA29665 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:55:13 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: brett@localhost Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:53:07 -0700 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Brett Glass Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000322135203.0425ea70@localhost> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 12:48 PM 3/22/2000 , Jeremy McMillan wrote: >This was a joke on the Patent Office. If it was, it's a criminal offense. It's not legal to file a "joke" patent; it's considered to be fraud. --Brett Used to be businesses sold products. Now they just sell themselves. -- David Johnson --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 22 18:52:24 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id SAA07297 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:52:23 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: DGBradford@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:55:33 -0800 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Douglas Bradford Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000322164759.00a4aa50@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Does Tim every drop by? Does anybody know how to get in touch with him.I'am still in the process of reading his thesis, from what I have read this could be the basis of some very interesting products. This sure sounds like a great way to get email messages through a intelligent, mulit-hop dynamic network where every user is also part of the network. Doug/WD6DGH At 02:05 PM 3/22/00 -0600, you wrote: >So is there a future for Shephard's SS protocol in TAPR projects? The chip >manufacturers should have plenty of product out there that would suffice. > >I believe Tim also has software to simulate the performance of such a >network in >different scenarios. I think the stuff is *golden*. > >"Eric S. Johansson" wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeremy McMillan" > > To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:41 PM > > Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? > > > > > I happen to believe that wireless should go the way of the Internet: > > > Multipath peer-to-peer network of intelligent repeaters (routers). I like > > > the idea of variable power, decoupled send/recieve FHSS spreading stuff > > > proposed by Tim Shepard in 1996. > > > > > > Has everyone read that stuff? It basically designs the near/far problem > > > into FHSS spreading codes as part of the protocol. It trades off latency > > > of multiple-hops for the ability to scale tranciever density per > area. The > > > more dense the concentration of transcievers, the more aggregate > > > bandwidth. There should be Shepard PDF's on the TAPR web site. I > forwarded > > > them months ago... > > > > found it... > > > > Tim Shepard, KD1KY. Tim's MIT PhD thesis, Decentralized Channel Management > > in Scalable Multihop Spread-Spectrum Packet Radio Networks, is an excellent > > work. Tim found that there is essentially no limit to how large and dense a > > packet radio network can be as long as it uses spread spectrum, transmitter > > power control and minimum-energy routing. > > > > ftp://ftp.lcs.mit.edu/pub/lcs-pubs/tr.outbox/MIT-LCS-TR-670.ps.gz > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: DGBradford@worldnet.att.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 23 07:21:44 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA13959 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:21:43 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:20:04 -0500 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Ron Schroeder Subject: [ss] Re: CORDLES PHONE In-Reply-To: References: <"TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group digest" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000323082004.009c9bd0@exchange01.bnl.gov> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The cordless phone that I am using on my ham station is an AT&T 9500. It has a small teflon cable in the base going to the antenna. That cable now goes to a SMA connector and the electronics of the base is now in a die-cast BUD box. I did run the charger contacts out of the box so I can still let the handset and base change their security codes. I am also running a pair of 45W home brew 450MHz FHSS mobiles. They hop fairly slow but fast enough that a pl decoder will not detect them if they fall on a used freq. I am trying to get them to hop fast enough to not open a carrier squelch. My next mod will be to increase the synth. ref. to 25KHz from the 6.25 that it is now and increase the loop bandwidth. I suspect that I will have to change the modulation from FM to digital when I do that. These radios are voice not data. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 516 344-4561 Day 516 286-5677 Nite after April 1st. use area code 631 --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 23 10:02:39 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA19186 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:02:39 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:57:08 -0600 From: Jeremy McMillan Organization: Chicago Board of Options Exchange X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38DA3ED4.F421ED2D@cboe.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Last year (the last time I checked), I think he was working for a satellite comms company inventing IP protocol extensions for satellite links. Try searching the web for "Shepard IP satellite" Douglas Bradford wrote: > Does Tim every drop by? Does anybody know how to get in touch with > him.I'am still in the process > of reading his thesis, from what I have read this could be the basis of > some very interesting products. > > This sure sounds like a great way to get email messages through a > intelligent, mulit-hop dynamic network > where every user is also part of the network. > Doug/WD6DGH > > At 02:05 PM 3/22/00 -0600, you wrote: > >So is there a future for Shephard's SS protocol in TAPR projects? The chip > >manufacturers should have plenty of product out there that would suffice. > > > >I believe Tim also has software to simulate the performance of such a > >network in > >different scenarios. I think the stuff is *golden*. > > > >"Eric S. Johansson" wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jeremy McMillan" > > > To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:41 PM > > > Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? > > > > > > > I happen to believe that wireless should go the way of the Internet: > > > > Multipath peer-to-peer network of intelligent repeaters (routers). I like > > > > the idea of variable power, decoupled send/recieve FHSS spreading stuff > > > > proposed by Tim Shepard in 1996. > > > > > > > > Has everyone read that stuff? It basically designs the near/far problem > > > > into FHSS spreading codes as part of the protocol. It trades off latency > > > > of multiple-hops for the ability to scale tranciever density per > > area. The > > > > more dense the concentration of transcievers, the more aggregate > > > > bandwidth. There should be Shepard PDF's on the TAPR web site. I > > forwarded > > > > them months ago... > > > > > > found it... > > > > > > Tim Shepard, KD1KY. Tim's MIT PhD thesis, Decentralized Channel Management > > > in Scalable Multihop Spread-Spectrum Packet Radio Networks, is an excellent > > > work. Tim found that there is essentially no limit to how large and dense a > > > packet radio network can be as long as it uses spread spectrum, transmitter > > > power control and minimum-energy routing. > > > > > > ftp://ftp.lcs.mit.edu/pub/lcs-pubs/tr.outbox/MIT-LCS-TR-670.ps.gz > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to ss as: DGBradford@worldnet.att.net > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 23 10:17:43 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA19701 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:17:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:16:06 -0600 From: Jeremy McMillan Organization: Chicago Board of Options Exchange X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38DA4346.27D5EA9F@cboe.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Wether it's against the law or not is moot. The core of the joke is that the Patent Office cannot prove that the claim is absurd. If they wanted to prosecute, they would open up the floodgates of people challenging patents on the grounds of absurdity, and that would create too much work for the Patent Office to bring on themselves willingly, and thus they would lose face in an irreparable way. The bottom line is that the patent process only works if innovative ideas are scarce. If they are not, discriminating between innovative ideas and absurd claims becomes an unbearable burden. The question is impossible to dismiss: "Is it not possible that the claimed process will actually be used in future technology?" Even the astrophysicists who *are* prepared to dismiss this claim can only do so on *theory* that places limits on the process (which may actually be possible, though not at the scale illustrated in the claim) based on (well established) theoretical properties of matter. Those same astrophysicists will (or should) tell you that they cannot dismiss the possibility of new theories emerging which make the "hyper-spatial antenna" obviously practical. In short: the joke is that the process is actually a valid claim, but as far as we know it will only work at astronomical scales: well beyond practical means. Now this guy owns the rights to make use of this concept for (50, 100?) years. After that, if the concept *does* become practical through some radical new physics, hyperspace communication will be public-domain. No person or corporation or government can keep the cat in the bag. BTW: a side joke is that the described model will make plants grow better. IT IS A HALOGEN LIGHT BULB: DUH! Brett Glass wrote: > At 12:48 PM 3/22/2000 , Jeremy McMillan wrote: > > >This was a joke on the Patent Office. > > If it was, it's a criminal offense. It's not legal to file a "joke" patent; > it's considered to be fraud. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 23 10:31:02 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA20128 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:30:57 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:26:12 -0600 From: Jeremy McMillan Organization: Chicago Board of Options Exchange X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38DA45A4.30C41943@cboe.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk We should be able to get hardware manufacturers' cooperation easily. It changes the business model of communication technology. Currently people have to buy or rent or lease equipment *and* pay a *gatekeeper* toll to gain access to the public network. The gatekeeper limits the usefulness of the network and limits the number of nodes which limits the number of units the manufacturer can sell. Using Tim Shephard's SS protocol, the network is in the public domain. All is needed is the FCC to set aside (and protect) some bandwidth for devices that conform to the protocol. Then the manufacturer can sell a wide range of devices in mass-market commodity numbers. It can be what Bluetooth *wants* to be, but WAY better. I propose we design a basic Shephard SS node, patent it, and liscence it similarly to the GPL of Linux. That places the chip manufacturers at the pinnacle of the new market without having to share revenues with telephone companies and other value-subtracted middlemen. Douglas Bradford wrote: > Does Tim every drop by? Does anybody know how to get in touch with > him.I'am still in the process > of reading his thesis, from what I have read this could be the basis of > some very interesting products. > > This sure sounds like a great way to get email messages through a > intelligent, mulit-hop dynamic network > where every user is also part of the network. > Doug/WD6DGH > > At 02:05 PM 3/22/00 -0600, you wrote: > >So is there a future for Shephard's SS protocol in TAPR projects? The chip > >manufacturers should have plenty of product out there that would suffice. > > > >I believe Tim also has software to simulate the performance of such a > >network in > >different scenarios. I think the stuff is *golden*. > > > >"Eric S. Johansson" wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jeremy McMillan" > > > To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:41 PM > > > Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? > > > > > > > I happen to believe that wireless should go the way of the Internet: > > > > Multipath peer-to-peer network of intelligent repeaters (routers). I like > > > > the idea of variable power, decoupled send/recieve FHSS spreading stuff > > > > proposed by Tim Shepard in 1996. > > > > > > > > Has everyone read that stuff? It basically designs the near/far problem > > > > into FHSS spreading codes as part of the protocol. It trades off latency > > > > of multiple-hops for the ability to scale tranciever density per > > area. The > > > > more dense the concentration of transcievers, the more aggregate > > > > bandwidth. There should be Shepard PDF's on the TAPR web site. I > > forwarded > > > > them months ago... > > > > > > found it... > > > > > > Tim Shepard, KD1KY. Tim's MIT PhD thesis, Decentralized Channel Management > > > in Scalable Multihop Spread-Spectrum Packet Radio Networks, is an excellent > > > work. Tim found that there is essentially no limit to how large and dense a > > > packet radio network can be as long as it uses spread spectrum, transmitter > > > power control and minimum-energy routing. > > > > > > ftp://ftp.lcs.mit.edu/pub/lcs-pubs/tr.outbox/MIT-LCS-TR-670.ps.gz > > > > > > --- > > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > > >--- > >You are currently subscribed to ss as: DGBradford@worldnet.att.net > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 23 10:48:18 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA20676 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:48:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: DGBradford@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:51:07 -0800 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Douglas Bradford Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000323083711.00a59aa0@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk YES!, Exactly what I was thinking, Good Ideas, in the true spirit of Amateur Radio. A community based network where everybody can gain access and each participant forms another link in the network. The vehicle for doing this could be TAPR. I would suggest that the relatively uncrowded U-NII band could be used for non amateur participants. I guess they would have to monitored and filtered to maintain a FCC/Amateur compliant system. I like your ideas about using the GPL licenses, we could even base the system software around an embedded version of Linux. There is also www.opencore.org that could provide the ASIC design and distribution expertise. It seems like most of the problems are resolvable "...tactics always degrade strategy..." -Frank Bethwaite Doug WD6DGH At 10:26 AM 3/23/00 -0600, you wrote: >We should be able to get hardware manufacturers' cooperation easily. It >changes >the business model of communication technology. > >Currently people have to buy or rent or lease equipment *and* pay a >*gatekeeper* >toll to gain access to the public network. The gatekeeper limits the >usefulness of >the network and limits the number of nodes which limits the number of >units the >manufacturer can sell. > >Using Tim Shephard's SS protocol, the network is in the public domain. All is >needed is the FCC to set aside (and protect) some bandwidth for devices that >conform to the protocol. Then the manufacturer can sell a wide range of >devices in >mass-market commodity numbers. It can be what Bluetooth *wants* to be, but WAY >better. > >I propose we design a basic Shephard SS node, patent it, and liscence it >similarly >to the GPL of Linux. That places the chip manufacturers at the pinnacle of >the new >market without having to share revenues with telephone companies and other >value-subtracted middlemen. > >Douglas Bradford wrote: > > > Does Tim every drop by? Does anybody know how to get in touch with > > him.I'am still in the process > > of reading his thesis, from what I have read this could be the basis of > > some very interesting products. > > > > This sure sounds like a great way to get email messages through a > > intelligent, mulit-hop dynamic network > > where every user is also part of the network. > > Doug/WD6DGH > > > > At 02:05 PM 3/22/00 -0600, you wrote: > > >So is there a future for Shephard's SS protocol in TAPR projects? The chip > > >manufacturers should have plenty of product out there that would suffice. > > > > > >I believe Tim also has software to simulate the performance of such a > > >network in > > >different scenarios. I think the stuff is *golden*. > > > > > >"Eric S. Johansson" wrote: > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Jeremy McMillan" > > > > To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:41 PM > > > > Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? > > > > > > > > > I happen to believe that wireless should go the way of the Internet: > > > > > Multipath peer-to-peer network of intelligent repeaters > (routers). I like > > > > > the idea of variable power, decoupled send/recieve FHSS spreading > stuff > > > > > proposed by Tim Shepard in 1996. > > > > > > > > > > Has everyone read that stuff? It basically designs the near/far > problem > > > > > into FHSS spreading codes as part of the protocol. It trades off > latency > > > > > of multiple-hops for the ability to scale tranciever density per > > > area. The > > > > > more dense the concentration of transcievers, the more aggregate > > > > > bandwidth. There should be Shepard PDF's on the TAPR web site. I > > > forwarded > > > > > them months ago... > > > > > > > > found it... > > > > > > > > Tim Shepard, KD1KY. Tim's MIT PhD thesis, Decentralized Channel > Management > > > > in Scalable Multihop Spread-Spectrum Packet Radio Networks, is an > excellent > > > > work. Tim found that there is essentially no limit to how large and > dense a > > > > packet radio network can be as long as it uses spread spectrum, > transmitter > > > > power control and minimum-energy routing. > > > > > > > > ftp://ftp.lcs.mit.edu/pub/lcs-pubs/tr.outbox/MIT-LCS-TR-670.ps.gz > > > > > > > > --- > > > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > > > > > >--- > > >You are currently subscribed to ss as: DGBradford@worldnet.att.net > > >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: mcmillan@cboe.com > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: DGBradford@worldnet.att.net >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 23 11:24:14 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA22177 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:24:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Eric S. Johansson" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:23:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <03d701bf94ec$708fd3d0$0300a8c0@alfee> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy McMillan" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 11:26 AM Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? > We should be able to get hardware manufacturers' cooperation easily. It changes > the business model of communication technology. > > Currently people have to buy or rent or lease equipment *and* pay a *gatekeeper* > toll to gain access to the public network. The gatekeeper limits the usefulness of > the network and limits the number of nodes which limits the number of units the > manufacturer can sell. I have a rant/white paper that I'm working on in the background on how there exists a natural monopoly for last mile infrastructure and should be treated as such. A last mile infrastructure of this nature would allow one to have competition at the gatekeeper level and handle it as a real-time auction based on quality of service or some other metric. > Using Tim Shephard's SS protocol, the network is in the public domain. All is > needed is the FCC to set aside (and protect) some bandwidth for devices that > conform to the protocol. Then the manufacturer can sell a wide range of devices in > mass-market commodity numbers. It can be what Bluetooth *wants* to be, but WAY > better. it's not exactly in the public domain. The term "public domain" has a specific legal meaning referring to intellectual property ownership. It's more of a communal resource or a "commons" as it were. There needs to be some form of regulation, be it explicit fiat by a regulatory organization such as the FCC or a municipality or a market-based one such as local balance auctions settled between machines based on need and willingness to pay. In a totally unregulated environment, the organization with the biggest purse wins and I would hate to see all of the local RF bandwidth be sucked up by some organization without compensating the other folks within range for the inconvenience. Although, in a software based environment, one needs to remember that code is law. Which means whoever writes the code, writes the law. > > I propose we design a basic Shephard SS node, patent it, and liscence it similarly > to the GPL of Linux. That places the chip manufacturaers at the pinnacle of the new > market without having to share revenues with telephone companies and other > value-subtracted middlemen. I believe the Shepherd model is already patented by Tim himself although he probably doesn't own the patent anymore. He probably had to sign it away to either MIT or venture capitalists. however, this should not stop you from developing radios and software based on the techniques outlined in his paper. Either people will license it on a reasonable basis or you can publicize their refusal and give away the code with a clear warning that violates the patent and should not be used... ;-) and be aware however that his model does not eliminate the problem inherent in half duplex radios which is that the end-to-end bandwidth drops significantly for every hop. I believe it degrades by something like 1/n where n is the number of hops. There needs to be some sort of full duplex like operation where a relaying node can be transmitting the previous packet while its receiving the current one. Think ethernet switches with store and forward capability. --- eric --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Thu Mar 23 12:02:10 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA23440 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:02:09 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Genereaux Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:58:20 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <00032312010400.18724@dharma> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, you wrote: > YES!, Exactly what I was thinking, Good Ideas, in the true spirit of > Amateur Radio. > A community based network where everybody can gain access and each participant > forms another link in the network. The vehicle for doing this could be > TAPR. I would suggest > that the relatively uncrowded U-NII band could be used for non amateur > participants. > I guess they would have to monitored and filtered to maintain a FCC/Amateur > compliant system. > > I like your ideas about using the GPL licenses, we could even base the > system software around > an embedded version of Linux. There is also www.opencore.org that could > provide the ASIC design > and distribution expertise. It seems like most of the problems are resolvable > > "...tactics always degrade strategy..." -Frank Bethwaite For an open source embedded solution that can be built today - Open Core is a bit away from real hardware at this point - look at the LART project. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 24 12:49:59 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA26811 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:49:59 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:48:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Scott C. Best" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > This sure sounds like a great way to get email messages through a > intelligent, mulit-hop dynamic network > where every user is also part of the network. Forgive the question if it's way off base...would this method be at all similar to the distributed packet radio technology developed by Rooftop Communications, recently acquired by Nokia? -Scott --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 24 13:02:55 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id NAA27230 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:02:54 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:52:53 -0600 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Greg Jones Subject: [ss] Fwd: FHSS complete transceiver on 902 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:57:16 -0800 >To: wd5ivd@tapr.org >From: Jim Shepherd >Subject: FHSS complete transceiver on 902 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Status: > >Hi Greg, > Check out the Microwave Journal for March 2000. On page 152 they have a >product anouncement for a complete 100mW FHSS transceiver for about $100. > >More information is at www.worldwireless.com It is called "900 SS >MicroHopper" > >Looks like all that is needed is to add an antenna and/or rf amp for longer >communication ranges. > >Hope this is of interest. > > >73, Jim N7WVZ in beautiful DN10cu... > ----- Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 27 10:03:22 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA15686 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:03:22 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Hast, Chuck" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] RE: Fwd: FHSS complete transceiver on 902 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:51:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <0D7B0EF78F72D311B95F0008C7F3D0A065C90A@DALLAS> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I am looking into this, as it looks like a solutions to a problem that just popped up at my place of work, hope to be able to give some input on these devices soon... > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Jones [SMTP:wd5ivd@tapr.org] > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 13:53 > To: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group > Subject: [ss] Fwd: FHSS complete transceiver on 902 > > >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:57:16 -0800 > >To: wd5ivd@tapr.org > >From: Jim Shepherd > >Subject: FHSS complete transceiver on 902 > >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >Status: > > > >Hi Greg, > > Check out the Microwave Journal for March 2000. On page 152 they > have a > >product anouncement for a complete 100mW FHSS transceiver for about $100. > > > >More information is at www.worldwireless.com It is called "900 SS > >MicroHopper" > > > >Looks like all that is needed is to add an antenna and/or rf amp for > longer > >communication ranges. > > > >Hope this is of interest. > > > > > >73, Jim N7WVZ in beautiful DN10cu... > > > ----- > Greg Jones, WD5IVD Austin, Texas > wd5ivd@tapr.org http://www.tapr.org/~wd5ivd > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: wchast@utilpart.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 27 10:08:28 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA16141 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:08:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:02:16 -0600 From: Jeremy McMillan Organization: Chicago Board of Options Exchange X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38DF8608.B5FCFB3D@cboe.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk "Eric S. Johansson" wrote: > > Using Tim Shephard's SS protocol, the network is in the public domain. All > is > > needed is the FCC to set aside (and protect) some bandwidth for devices > that > > conform to the protocol. Then the manufacturer can sell a wide range of > devices in > > mass-market commodity numbers. It can be what Bluetooth *wants* to be, but > WAY > > better. > > it's not exactly in the public domain. The term "public domain" has a > specific legal meaning referring to intellectual property ownership. It's > more of a communal resource or a "commons" as it were. There needs to be > some form of regulation, be it explicit fiat by a regulatory organization > such as the FCC or a municipality or a market-based one such as local > balance auctions settled between machines based on need and willingness to > pay. When I said network, I meant "protocol specification". AFAIK, bluetooth protocol requires liscencing... > In a totally unregulated environment, the organization with the biggest > purse wins and I would hate to see all of the local RF bandwidth be sucked > up by some organization without compensating the other folks within range > for the inconvenience. Not necessarily so. The Internet handles this gracefully: if someone breaks protocol (ie. least-energy routing requirements) all others can "black-hole" them by ignoring their loud, rude transmissions. Their overpowered station becomes an expensive marginally effective jammer. > Although, in a software based environment, one needs to remember that code > is law. Which means whoever writes the code, writes the law. Anyone can write competing law, and we all choose what laws we conform to a-la-carte. > > > > I propose we design a basic Shephard SS node, patent it, and liscence it > similarly > > to the GPL of Linux. That places the chip manufacturaers at the pinnacle > of the new > > market without having to share revenues with telephone companies and other > > value-subtracted middlemen. > > I believe the Shepherd model is already patented by Tim himself although he > probably doesn't own the patent anymore. He probably had to sign it away to > either MIT or venture capitalists. > > however, this should not stop you from developing radios and software based > on the techniques outlined in his paper. Either people will license it on a > reasonable basis or you can publicize their refusal and give away the code > with a clear warning that violates the patent and should not be used... ;-) > > and be aware however that his model does not eliminate the problem inherent > in half duplex radios which is that the end-to-end bandwidth drops > significantly for every hop. I believe it degrades by something like 1/n > where n is the number of hops. There needs to be some sort of full duplex > like operation where a relaying node can be transmitting the previous packet > while its receiving the current one. Think ethernet switches with store and > forward capability. I think this is necessary given his suggestion of a "rake reciever." There have got to be gobs of commodity chips out there to do frame buffering for ethernet switches. If your published listening schedule doesn't overlap the final destination's listening schedule when you recieve a packet for him, then you would need to buffer it until you get to a time that you know he is listening but you are not listening (hence others will not step on your transmission). Even if you get a packet and can immediately forward it (cut-through style) on another channel, you would need time to decide *which* channel to forward to, which would require buffering. Full duplex would be handled by having a single fifo for each channel. If you want full duplex, communicate on separate forward and reverse channels. You cannot transmit and recieve simultaneously on the same channel anyways. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 27 10:19:28 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA16758 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:19:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:12:05 -0600 From: Jeremy McMillan Organization: Chicago Board of Options Exchange X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38DF8855.D57DD05A@cboe.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk One can't be sure. The Shepard protocol is transparent. It's published. Rooftop's stuff is grey-box with a limited API. It looks like they grok the fact that the multipath least-energy routing stuff is a MAC layer protocol, and can be implemented on any kind of radio link, baseband, SS, whatever. "Scott C. Best" wrote: > > This sure sounds like a great way to get email messages through a > > intelligent, mulit-hop dynamic network > > where every user is also part of the network. > > Forgive the question if it's way off base...would > this method be at all similar to the distributed packet radio > technology developed by Rooftop Communications, recently > acquired by Nokia? --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 27 10:23:31 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA16992 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:23:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:14:38 -0600 From: Jeremy McMillan Organization: Chicago Board of Options Exchange X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38DF88EE.7BAF276F@cboe.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I wonder if they realize that this same technology could be used in competition with Bluetooth's short-range indoor connectivity too? "Scott C. Best" wrote: > > This sure sounds like a great way to get email messages through a > > intelligent, mulit-hop dynamic network > > where every user is also part of the network. > > Forgive the question if it's way off base...would > this method be at all similar to the distributed packet radio > technology developed by Rooftop Communications, recently > acquired by Nokia? --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Mon Mar 27 18:33:54 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id SAA03700 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:33:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Lyle Johnson" To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:35:58 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <009101bf9845$4a904f00$be07340a@tomswift> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > > > mass-market commodity numbers. It can be what Bluetooth *wants* to be, but > > WAY > > > better. Bluetooth is a cable replacement technology for very limited range (typically less than 10 meters) for a tiny number of devices (no more than 8 active at any time, usually fewer). Shepherd's system is designed to create a functional network of unlimited size. Opposite ends of the usage model. > When I said network, I meant "protocol specification". AFAIK, bluetooth protocol > requires liscencing... To use the Bluetooth logo requires that you "certify" your implementation. Enjoy! Lyle --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 28 05:07:33 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id FAA07715 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:07:32 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:10:10 +0200 (IST) From: avraham kurtz To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] info Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi My name is A Kurtz I'm new here and to the subject of ss. I'm doing a project for my degree in which I need to design and build a ss system.I need help on gathering general basic data of ss. I'm having problems undestanding the despreading concept(cross corraltion). If some one could send my information I would be grateful. Thank You --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 28 05:43:22 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id FAA08444 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:43:21 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: kn6td@mail.clubnet.net Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 03:33:41 -0800 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Derek Lassen Subject: [ss] Re: info In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000328032130.00af93e0@mail.clubnet.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The idea is to add a trial despreading code to a target symbol stream and keep statistics on how much the signal rises out of the noise as you change the spreading code. Since the spreading code sequence is known, and you are just looking for the offset within it, one technique is to have three concurrent despreaders working. The first one is using a early version of the code(T-1), the second is using a late version (T+1), and the third uses an on time version (T). T is the offset in chirps, from the start of the epoch (length of time for the PRN to recycle). The clock rate is a little faster (or much faster if you can mangae it), than the actual symbol stream. At some point in time, the early despreader will see a fall, the on time despreader will see a peak, and the late despreader will see a rise. At this time, you lock the despread clock to the symbol stream clock, and you are in synch. The early / on time / late decoders drive a feedback loop like a PLL to generate the decode clock. You can build the decoders in analog (mixers and PLLs), In digital, or if you have the processor poop - in firmware (ie DSP). Hope this helps. 73 de KN6TD (S) Derek At 01:10 PM 3/28/00 +0200, you wrote: >Hi My name is A Kurtz I'm new here and to the subject of ss. > I'm doing a project for my degree in which I need to design and build a >ss system.I need help on gathering general basic data of ss. > I'm having problems undestanding the despreading concept(cross >corraltion). If some one could send my information I would be grateful. > Thank You > > >--- >You are currently subscribed to ss as: KN6TD@CLUBNET.NET >To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 28 10:35:03 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA17260 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:35:03 -0600 (CST) Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:33:55 -0600 From: Jeremy McMillan Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Organization: CBOE X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: a potentially compelling application? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <38E0DEF3.29ED93E7@cboe.com> Precedence: bulk Lyle Johnson wrote: > > > > > mass-market commodity numbers. It can be what Bluetooth *wants* to be, > but > > > WAY > > > > better. > > Bluetooth is a cable replacement technology for very limited range > (typically less than 10 meters) for a tiny number of devices (no more than 8 > active at any time, usually fewer). > > Shepherd's system is designed to create a functional network of unlimited > size. > > Opposite ends of the usage model. > Shepherd wasn't interested in size, but rather *node*density*. The protocol is designed, using variable xmit power least-energy routing, so that the network can operate with lots of nodes in very close vicinity, and it can accomodate long-range links requiring the transmitter's maximum power. Size is either geographic separation of nodes, or number of nodes. Density is the number of nodes (transcievers) per geographic unit. The radios are designed to be *able* to transmit to anyone within range, but prefer transmitting to the nearest forwarder that can reach the destination node. Shepherd's protocol, the way I see it, spreads across the whole "usage model" you refer to. To make these radios work like Bluetooth devices, just give them smaller, lower powered transcievers. Have one in your PDA. Have one in your PC. Have another in your car with a longer-range transciever, and a high-power base unit at home. Counties could operate towers to reach neighboring counties using highly directional antennae. Densely populated counties could bridge traffic across land-based fiber. It's like the Internet, but better. Actually, it *IS* the Internet. It's just evolving. Universal connectivity has always been the "Manifest Destiny" of the Internet. --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 28 19:22:15 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id TAA07385 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:22:14 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:21:58 +1200 From: "M.A.PINFOLD" Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Organization: HOME MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: info X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <38E15AB6.6BE97015@xtra.co.nz> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I see on the dicussion group a number of times ,people new to SS wanting information and help on topics of SS. Can I recommend to anyone who like me is "new" to Spread spectrum and not professionally involved but wants to learn the basic principles and techniques of DSSS and FH etc and that is to to buy,beg,borrow ,steal,theive,extort a copy of Robert Dixons most excellent book "spread Spectrum systems" Second Edition Robert C Dixon, Wiley Interscience, ISBN 0-471-88309-3. which I hate to say may be out of print ?????? perhaps tapr could organise to sell it?? Id buy a copy!! wasnt there a third edition !!?? I call it the SS bible and is well worth having. I would love to obtain a copy as I begrudgingly had to give the loaned copy back!! another article to get hold of for added practical example is "Voice link over Spread Spectrum radio by James Vincent G1PVZ in the english monthly magazine called "Electronics and Wireless world" sept and oct 1993 hope that helps someone regards Mike ZL1BTB --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Tue Mar 28 19:48:51 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id TAA08130 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:48:50 -0600 (CST) Errors-To: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:46:41 -0500 From: Jeff King Organization: Aero Data Systems, Inc. X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: info References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38E16081.C9C55BA8@aerodata.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk "M.A.PINFOLD" wrote: > buy,beg,borrow ,steal,theive,extort a copy of Robert Dixons > most excellent book "spread Spectrum systems" Second Edition Robert C > Dixon, Wiley Interscience, ISBN 0-471-88309-3. which I hate to say may > be out of print ?????? Second edition is, there is a third edition, which I think(?) is the same book. See: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471593427/qid=954294050/sr=1-9/103-4438735-7639067 Let me know if it looks like it, I had the first edition some time ago (but loaned it out) but no longer have it. -Jeff --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 29 01:16:41 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id BAA26172 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:16:39 -0600 (CST) Errors-To: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:12:15 -0800 From: "jmelvin@infopath.com" Organization: infoPATH Communications Solutions X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: info References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38E1ACCF.33B1147@infopath.com> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk 3rd Edition of Bob Dixon's book has new chapters: - 1992 Report on Propagation & Interference Test Results from Omnipoint Corp. where he was Chief Scientist. (Omnipoint just merged w/ Voicestream) - Part II: Commercial Applications of SSSystems. And is Copyright 1994 73, - Jay Melvin, WA6SBO@ARRL.NET Jeff King wrote: > > "M.A.PINFOLD" wrote: > > > buy,beg,borrow ,steal,theive,extort a copy of Robert Dixons > > most excellent book "spread Spectrum systems" Second Edition Robert C > > Dixon, Wiley Interscience, ISBN 0-471-88309-3. which I hate to say may > > be out of print ?????? > > Second edition is, there is a third edition, which I think(?) is the same book. > See: > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471593427/qid=954294050/sr=1-9/103-4438735-7639067 > > Let me know if it looks like it, I had the first edition some time ago (but loaned > it out) but no longer have it. > > -Jeff > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: wa6sbo@arrl.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Wed Mar 29 17:31:33 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA03576 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:31:33 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: brett@localhost Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:30:07 -0700 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: Brett Glass Subject: [ss] RE: ERP limits on hyper-spatial antenna? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000329162417.041c8840@localhost> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk At 09:16 AM 3/23/2000 , Jeremy McMillan wrote: >BTW: a side joke is that the described model will make plants grow better. IT >IS A HALOGEN LIGHT BULB: DUH! In the patent, the "inventor" says that in his preferred embodiment the bulb is fully covered. He claims that the plants grow better not due to light from the bulb but due to "radiation from another dimension." I almost snorted my morning coffee right out my nose when I read that line. This patent is worth perusing just for its humor value. --Brett --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 31 07:39:11 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA11863 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:39:10 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: mdmiller@209.197.224.10 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:35:17 -0600 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" From: mdmiller@fastlane.net Subject: [ss] WaveNet IP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000331071802.00bfdc90@209.197.224.10> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I am currently testing a FHSS product that is essentially a router with 10BT on one end and a radio (2.4 GHz +15 to +24 dBm) on the other end. It is made by Multipoint networks and is called WaveNet IP. They claim up to 20 km typical range and data rates at 50 IP packets per second of size 1500 bytes or 250 IP packets per second of size 300 bytes or smaller. My units are currently in the lab, but I will be taking them to the field in May. These are not inexpensive units, but so far I am impresses with the functionality. Multipoint's web site is http://www.multipoint.com/ but has been under construction for quite some time. You go to http://www.emsg.com/prod06.htm/ to see a picture of the router and antenna. This product is in the 3K-5K per unit range. I understand they are going to move up into the 5 GHz band soon. The word on the street is that most wireless LANs are moving out of the 900 MHz ISM band because of interference, I guess there are too many devices there now. I am anxiously awaiting the TAPR product! Mark Miller N5RFX --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 31 09:12:33 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA14827 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:12:32 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:11:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Lorenzini To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Proxim Q's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I'm somewhat confused about the symphony and wavelan2 products. Is is possible to attach an external ant to the symphony pcmcia card like the wavelan2? Will sympony and wavelan2 talk to each other? Bob --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 31 13:59:08 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id NAA24071 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:59:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 07:59:08 +1200 From: "M.A.PINFOLD" Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Organization: HOME MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] 2.5 GHz rs232 modems X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <38E5038C.702612C9@xtra.co.nz> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi there just peddling my barrow here but I think they are a cheap buy here in New Zealand dont ask me about the real Techo specifications I can just give you what I have on the box and the fact Ive been inside them .They use the triquint 2.5 Ghz T/R 100mW rf Preamp chip as the final output device. I have had 8 Kms line of sight between them using a tubular radiator feed horn and four foot paraclipse sat TV dishes, for a remote internet access point. but they are well priced ?? about US$280 a pair . I import them as a sideline (I pull teeth for a living someones got to do it ,to all you guys out there that dont look after them) check out www.amalgamate2000.com go to contents ,components,scroll down to the bottom and click on rs 232 there's the data and picture . cheers mike ZL1BTB --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 31 15:05:06 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id PAA26201 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:05:05 -0600 (CST) Errors-To: Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:03:13 -0500 From: Jeff King Organization: Aero Data Systems, Inc. X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proxim Q's References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38E51291.4F526CED@aerodata.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Here is a good hardware hack site for the Symphony: http://www.gbonline.com/~multiplx/wireless/ There is a section on the antenna connector. Can't help you on the wavelan2, but heard some good stuff about it. -Jeff Bob Lorenzini wrote: > I'm somewhat confused about the symphony and wavelan2 products. Is is > possible to attach an external ant to the symphony pcmcia card like > the wavelan2? Will sympony and wavelan2 talk to each other? > > Bob > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: jeff@aerodata.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 31 15:17:06 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id PAA26516 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:17:03 -0600 (CST) Errors-To: Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:14:17 -0500 From: Jeff King Organization: Aero Data Systems, Inc. X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proxim Q's References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <38E51529.90D2770D@aerodata.net> Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Opps.... missed the PCMCIA part. (the guide I cited only covers the ISA card) The antenna on the PCMCIA proxim IS detachable, but appears to be a proprietary connector. I imagine you could trash the detachable antenna, and convert it into a connector/ attach a pigtail (dremal motor tool experience). -Jeff Jeff King wrote: > Here is a good hardware hack site for the Symphony: > > http://www.gbonline.com/~multiplx/wireless/ > > There is a section on the antenna connector. > > Can't help you on the wavelan2, but heard some good stuff about > it. > > -Jeff > > Bob Lorenzini wrote: > > > I'm somewhat confused about the symphony and wavelan2 products. Is is > > possible to attach an external ant to the symphony pcmcia card like > > the wavelan2? Will sympony and wavelan2 talk to each other? > > > > Bob > > > > --- > > You are currently subscribed to ss as: jeff@aerodata.net > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org > > --- > You are currently subscribed to ss as: jeff@aerodata.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 31 15:34:46 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id PAA27292 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:34:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:33:36 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Lorenzini To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" Subject: [ss] Re: Proxim Q's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Jeff King wrote: > Here is a good hardware hack site for the Symphony: That is what got me going on the Proxims. It looks like they both use a snap on antenna but the rangelan2 has an external as well. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org From bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Fri Mar 31 15:36:52 2000 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id PAA27377 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:36:51 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:35:31 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Lorenzini To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" cc: TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group Subject: [ss] Re: Proxim Q's In-Reply-To: <38E51529.90D2770D@aerodata.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Spread Spectrum Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-ss-6751@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Jeff King wrote: > Opps.... missed the PCMCIA part. > (the guide I cited only covers the ISA card) > > The antenna on the PCMCIA proxim IS detachable, but appears to be a proprietary > connector. I imagine you could trash the detachable antenna, and convert it into a > connector/ attach a pigtail (dremal motor tool experience). That what I wanted to know. Thanks! Bob --- You are currently subscribed to ss as: lyris.ss@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-ss-6751T@lists.tapr.org